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P8z77-v memory questions


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#1 Veng3r

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 07:27 PM

Hi, I'm looking to upgrade my pc for vr and elite dangerous but before I do so I'd like to double check a few things first to make sure I've got everything right.

 

Firstly, I'm upgrading my gpu to this http://www.ebuyer.com/749498-gigaby...-gddr5x-dual-link-dvi-d-gv-n1080g1-gaming-8gd as I'm limited to a card less than 29cm but I need an additional hdmi port on the gpu so I wanted confirmation that I could use this http://www.ebuyer.com/227491-startech-com-displayport-to-hdmi-video-converter-dp2hdmi2# to use one of the displayports to connect to my hdtv leaving the hdmi port free for vr. I output both a 60hz and 24hz signal to my hdtv and wanted to double check this converter will work for 1920x1080 video and audio and is a good solution as all the gtx 1080 cards with two hdmi ports are too big for my case. The converter mentions something about needing displayport++ but I can't find reference to ++ on the gpu so I'm just not 100% sure. Confirmation that these will work together for my intended purpose would be greatly appreciated.

 

Secondly, I need to upgrade the memory on my p8z77-v motherboard. I've already got two G-Skill 4GB DDR3 1600Mhz RipjawsX Memory sticks with another two slots free on the mb so I was thinking of buying another two 4GB sticks to get a total of 16GB. I assume that I can't just add one 8GB stick but do I have to use the exact memory I've already got if I get another two 4GB sticks to go upto 16GB? As the ebuyer link I saved when I brought them no longer works and I'd like to get the memory from there (to save on shipping as it looks like I'm getting my new cpu from there too) could someone maybe recommend something that's compatible with what I've already got please or point me in the right direction?

 

Lastly, I'm adding a couple of case fans too but the manual for my case states some fans positions are for intake fans and some positions are for exhaust fans and I can't see any referrence to intake or exhaust fans when looking on ebuyer. I've got space for one extra intake fan on the front of the case and one extra intake fan on the bottom of the case but that would give me three intake fans and only one exhaust fan, is this a good setup or can I decide to use an exhaust fan on the bottom of the case instead? Do I need to buy specific intake or exhaust fans or is the airflow direction controlled by the motherboard or fan controller?

 

This is my current setup:

CPU: Intel Core i7 3770K

MB: Asus P8Z77-V

OLD GPU TO BE REPLACED: Asus GTX670-DC2-2GD5

MEMORY: G.Skill 8GB RipjawsX (two 4GB sticks leaving two slots free on the mb)

PSU: Corsair TX 650W

SSD/HDD: Crucial MX100 512GB SSD, Seagate 2TB Barracuda, Seagate 4TB Barracuda x2, WD 6TB Red

DVDRW: Samsung SH-224BB

CASE: Fractal Design Define R3

OS: Win 7 x64

 

Any help you can offer for any of these three issues I'm looking into is greatly appreciated as I've been reading for days trying to get my head round all this and vr.

 

Thanks in advance!


Edited by hamluis, 01 November 2016 - 03:18 PM.
Moved from Internal Hardware to System Building/Upgrading - Hamluis.


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#2 Veng3r

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 11:32 PM

Hi, I can't edit my first post on this thread since it was moved so could a mod please edit it to match the following quote and change the topic title to 'p8z77-v memory questions' please?

I think I overloaded the thread with questions and therefore got no answers so I split the questions hence the need for editing this thread. Sorry to the mods for posting in the wrong forum, I've just started here and I'm still getting my bearings. Thanks!

I need to upgrade the memory on my p8z77-v motherboard. I've already got two G-Skill 4GB DDR3 1600Mhz RipjawsX Memory sticks with another two slots free on the mb so I was thinking of buying another two 4GB sticks to get a total of 16GB. I assume that I can't just add one 8GB stick but do I have to use the exact same memory I've already got if I get another two 4GB sticks to go upto 16GB?

As the ebuyer link I saved when I brought them no longer works and I'd like to get the memory from there (to save on shipping as it looks like I'm getting my new cpu from there too) could someone maybe recommend something that's compatible with what I've already got please or point me in the right direction?
 
This is my current setup:
CPU: Intel Core i7 3770K
MB: Asus P8Z77-V
OLD GPU TO BE REPLACED: Asus GTX670-DC2-2GD5
MEMORY: G.Skill 8GB RipjawsX (two 4GB sticks leaving two slots free on the mb)
PSU: Corsair TX 650W
SSD/HDD: Crucial MX100 512GB SSD, Seagate 2TB Barracuda, Seagate 4TB Barracuda x2, WD 6TB Red
DVDRW: Samsung SH-224BB
CASE: Fractal Design Define R3
OS: Win 7 x64
 
Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!


Edited by Veng3r, 01 November 2016 - 11:43 PM.


#3 Drillingmachine

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 11:04 AM

Single GTX 1080 is way too weak for VR IMO. For good VR experience, you need much better card(s). As with VR you can use two cards, one for left eye and one for right eye. Cards must support that of course.

So better to wait at least couple of months for better cards. After all, GTX 1080 is basically Maxwell (2013) made with 16nm tech and so just refreshed old tech. Not worth it if you ask me.

For memory, you don't need "exact" RAM's. 2*4GB DDR3 should be fine, but random compatibility problems are always possible.

Edited by Drillingmachine, 02 November 2016 - 11:07 AM.


#4 Veng3r

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 01:43 PM

Single GTX 1080 is way too weak for VR IMO. For good VR experience, you need much better card(s). As with VR you can use two cards, one for left eye and one for right eye. Cards must support that of course.

So better to wait at least couple of months for better cards. After all, GTX 1080 is basically Maxwell (2013) made with 16nm tech and so just refreshed old tech. Not worth it if you ask me.

Thanks for the help. Looking at previous release dates (gtx 980 Sept 2014, 980ti June 2015, 1080 May 2016) it took 9 months for the 980ti to be released and we're now 6 months after the 1080's release date so are you saying I should wait for a 1080ti or are there other cards on the horizon? Any idea what kind of performance I could get when spending £600 on the gpu if I waited a few months as you suggest?

I'm not too bothered about bang per buck, although it's always nice, as the 50% price increase from a 1070 to a 1080 for only a 20% to 30% increase in performance is just about acceptable to me but I'm not sure I could justify spending more for even further diminishing returns. I went for a 1080 over a 1070 as I had trouble finding a card under 29cm that would fit my case as my initial choice was too big and I can only see this problem getting worse when later gens are released. I've also got no idea if the next gen of cards will bottleneck my old i7 or other components so that's another reason I picked the gpu I did.

I can't afford to sli two 1080's, the cost of the rift and a 1080 is at the top end of my budget as I can't really go too much over £1000 for both the gpu and rift. I've just brought the rift with a leap motion thrown in on ebay saving myself £100 so I can get a 1080 instead of a 1070 and stay close to my budget.

I've read of people having great success with frame rates on elite dangerous with the rift and a 1080 but I've got no real idea of the performance increase with a better card or sli as I didn't really consider anything better than a 1080 when deciding between that and a 1070 due to the price and diminishing returns.

This is also pretty much my christmas present to myself for this year so I'm not sure I want to wait so long for the gpu. Considering what I've said if you had to pick a gpu today which would you go for, would it not be a single 1080, or would you sli two of them or would you go for something else?

For memory, you don't need "exact" RAM's. 2*4GB DDR3 should be fine, but random compatibility problems are always possible.

Thanks for the confirmation, is there any benefit to getting memory with higher Mhz than the 1600Mhz sticks that I have or does it not it matter?

Thanks again for helping me through this, it's greatly appreciated!

Edited by Veng3r, 02 November 2016 - 02:35 PM.


#5 Drillingmachine

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 02:56 PM

Thanks for the help. Looking at previous release dates (gtx 980 Sept 2014, 980ti June 2015, 1080 May 2016) it took 9 months for the 980ti to be released and we're now 6 months after the 1080's release date so are you saying I should wait for a 1080ti or are there other cards on the horizon? Any idea what kind of performance I could get when spending £600 on the gpu if I waited a few months as you suggest?


GTX 980 and GTX 980Ti are both based on Maxwell architecture that debuted 2013. One reason it took so long to release GTX 980 and 980Ti was TSMC who cancelled 20nm manufacturing tech.

AMD Vega should bring something new and at least bring some competition on high end and so lower prices. Vega should have HBM2 and I estimate it's around 30-50% faster than GTX 1080. Specs are not confirmed yet but GBM2 is quite big advantage against GDDR5X.

I'm not too bothered about bang per buck, although it's always nice, but the 50% price increase from a 1070 to a 1080 for only a 20% to 30% increase in performance is just about acceptable to me but I'm not sure I could justify spending more for even further diminishing returns. I went for a 1080 over a 1070 as I had trouble finding a card under 29cm that would fit my case as my initial choice was too big and I can only see this problem getting worse when later gens are released. I've also got no idea if the next gen of cards will bottleneck my old i7 or other components so that's another reason I picked the gpu I did.


HBM2 cards are generally quite short. In fact, Radeon Nano Fury using HBM is ultra short.

I can't afford to sli two 1080's, the cost of the rift and a 1080 is at the top end of my budget as I can't really go too much over £1000 for both the gpu and rift. I've just brought the rift with a leap motion thrown in on ebay saving myself £100 so I can get a 1080 instead of a 1070 and stay close to my budget.

I've read of people having great success with frame rates on elite dangerous with the rift and a 1080 but I've got no real idea of the performance increase with a better card or sli as I didn't really consider anything better than a 1080 when deciding between that and a 1070 due to the price and diminishing returns.


If I have understood right, Elite Dangerous supports Crossfire quote well. So to get cheap VR option for Elite, Radeon RX 470 Crossfire is quite good deal at this point considering price. They also have quite good re-sell value if you decide to go with something better in the future.

Thanks for the confirmation, is there any benefit to getting memory with higher Mhz than the 1600Mhz sticks that I have or does it not it matter?

Thanks again for helping me through this, it's greatly appreciated!


Higher speed does not really help much and no faster than 1600 MHz memory is officially supported.

If I were you, I would do cheap upgrade now (memory and AMD RX 470/480) and save money for bigger upgrade next year.

#6 Veng3r

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 03:49 PM

If I have understood right, Elite Dangerous supports Crossfire quote well. So to get cheap VR option for Elite, Radeon RX 470 Crossfire is quite good deal at this point considering price. They also have quite good re-sell value if you decide to go with something better in the future.

I thought it was always best to go for the best single card setup that you can afford? I'm not sure how my mb will handle crossfire as I think the second pcie slot is slower than the first, then there is the issue with finding cards that will fit next to each other as well as fitting the case. This pc is also my htpc and is always on as a media server too so noise and temperature are also a concern for me.

I'm looking at approx £500 for two 480's so I'm only saving around £100. I'm not after the best price/performance card, I'm looking for the best performance card in the 1080's price range. Are two 480's really better performing for vr than one 1080 or just better priced?

I also thought that nvidia was the recommended card for vr as it performed better, especially the 1080 as it has vr specific improvements. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere but I've got a lot of info going around my head so I may be mistaken.

If I were you, I would do cheap upgrade now (memory and AMD RX 470/480) and save money for bigger upgrade next year.

I'm looking for the best performance I can get today in my price range ignoring the resale value of the cards or future upgrade potential. Considering that would you still recommend two 480's?

Thanks again, you're such a great help!

#7 Drillingmachine

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 04:15 PM

I thought it was always best to go for the best single card setup that you can afford? I'm not sure how my mb will handle crossfire as I think the second pcie slot is slower than the first, then there is the issue with finding cards that will fit next to each other as well as fitting the case. This pc is also my htpc and is always on as a media server too so noise and temperature are also a concern for me.

I'm looking at approx £500 for two 480's so I'm only saving around £100. I'm not after the best price/performance card, I'm looking for the best performance card in the 1080's price range. Are two 480's really better performing for vr than one 1080 or just better priced?

I also thought that nvidia was the recommended card for vr as it performed better, especially the 1080 as it has vr specific improvements. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere but I've got a lot of info going around my head so I may be mistaken.


Single card is usually better choice as support for Crossfire/SLI depends on game and/or driver support. Also your case may cause some problems yes. But as said, right now there are only bad choices on high end graphic cards.

AMD is better suited for VR as Nvidia's architecture is much more serial. Those Nvidia's VR improvements require straight support from games.

AMD has also specific VR technologies that also require software support. No difference there.

Another thing is that AMD architecture is much more modern than Nvidia's. Nvidia rocks with DirectX 11 games (DirectX 11 is tweaked DirectX 10 that is tweaked DirectX 9 from 2003) while AMD is much better suited for modern API's (DirectX 12, Vulkan).

Not sure if I already said that right now there are only bad choices on high end graphic cards.

I'm looking for the best performance I can get today in my price range ignoring the resale value of the cards or future upgrade potential. Considering that would you still recommend two 480's?


Considering those things, no. I don't recommend RX470/480 Crossfire.

#8 Captain_Chicken

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 06:38 PM

Single GTX 1080 is way too weak for VR IMO. For good VR experience, you need much better card(s). As with VR you can use two cards, one for left eye and one for right eye. Cards must support that of course.

So better to wait at least couple of months for better cards. After all, GTX 1080 is basically Maxwell (2013) made with 16nm tech and so just refreshed old tech. Not worth it if you ask me.

For memory, you don't need "exact" RAM's. 2*4GB DDR3 should be fine, but random compatibility problems are always possible.

GTX 1080 is overkill if all you are doing is VR. There are no VR benchmarks yet so it is hard to back up this claim. The minimum requirement for a VR card is a GTX 970 or RX 480. 


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#9 Drillingmachine

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Posted 10 November 2016 - 12:36 PM

That VR "minimum requirement" is mostly BS. We don't actually need any benchmarks as we can use mathematics for estimations:

 

For example Oculus Rift is rendering using 3024x1680 resolution and it wants 90 FPS to be smooth. That's about 457 megapixels per second.

 

We can compare that to 4K resolution (4096x2160) at 60 Hz. That's about 530 megapixels per second.

 

So Oculus Rift needs at least (perhaps even more) "90% of GPU power that is needed for 4K @ 60 Hz".

 

Can GTX970 run 4K around 55 FPS? No, unless game is light.

 

Can GTX 1080 run 4K around 55 FPS? Perhaps, but game must not be very demanding.

 

So for VR, GTX970 is just crap and GTX1080 is not good enough for highly demanding games.

 

Edit: as you see on video, GTX1080 can barely do 55 FPS @ 4K even on average. How about minimum?


Edited by Drillingmachine, 10 November 2016 - 12:39 PM.


#10 Captain_Chicken

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Posted 10 November 2016 - 01:21 PM

http://www.digitaltrends.com/virtual-reality/oculus-rift-vs-htc-vive/

Actually, the both the Oculus Rift and the HTC vive are 2160x1200 resolution. With VR, the game textures and details change to keep at 90FPS for a smooth experience. 


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#11 Drillingmachine

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Posted 10 November 2016 - 02:49 PM

http://www.digitaltrends.com/virtual-reality/oculus-rift-vs-htc-vive/

Actually, the both the Oculus Rift and the HTC vive are 2160x1200 resolution. With VR, the game textures and details change to keep at 90FPS for a smooth experience. 

 

Render resolution is 1.4x that shown resolution, so 2160*1200=3024*1680. Render resolution is what matters when counting GPU requirements.

 

That "keep FPS 90 Hz steady" needs software support and it's practically very annoying if image quality varies all the time. So it's safe to say GPU's are not yet powerful enough for VR. That's the problem with VR manufacturers (not powerful enough GPU's = no VR kits sold) so they of course try to hide this fact. That's why they dare to put VR minimum to GTX970, that's just :lmao:

 

Next year HBM2 cards should come into market and then we can talk about VR ready (single GPU) cards.



#12 Veng3r

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Posted 14 November 2016 - 10:59 AM

Thanks for all the info guys. I've brought myself the 1080 as it's the best I can afford for the time being. I'll report back once I've got it all setup and running.




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