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Hardware end of life


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#1 LucasAlmeida

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 08:49 AM

Hello, community
 
I know this is a novice's question, and I hope it is even allowed to post such a question here.
 
For reassurance, I'm not that a novice when it comes to computers, more of a power user, but is just this term that has always caused me confusion.
 
When saying that some action may shorten the life of a piece of hardware, what does it mean exactly? Will the component just stops working or fry or something of the sort? My own pc has at least four years and I've known PCs much older than that that still works just fine, even though their processors "lifespan" were meant to last much less that.
 
I need to know this because I'm considering overcloking (yes, I'm doing tons of research to ensure I don't ruin my hardware, considering my level of knowledge. I'm aware of the risks).
 
Thanks to all of you who pay attention to this question and more to those who bother to provide an answer.

Edited by LucasAlmeida, 18 October 2016 - 08:52 AM.


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#2 hamluis

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 09:05 AM

Appears to me that you are seeking assurances about the disadvantages of overclocking...and hoping that they may have been misstated.

 

I'm not an IT person of any sort, just a user like you.  I have overclocked in the past (as a test) and I don't have extensive experience or knowledge re such.

 

But...very simply...IMO, the most negative aspect of overclocking is that  of system instability.  System instability can manifest itself in many ways, including inability to boot and/or system shutdowns.  There is no exact science that can predict system instability...along with the components, there user variables that may contribute to instability.  The user factor is often overlooked by those who find themselves with a multiplicity of system problems, IMO.

 

If someone says to you "Smoking may shorten your life, give you cancer" and so on...you accept that as an indication of risk.  Such statements may or may not affect whether you choose to smoke.

 

It's the same with computer components that are bundled as a system.

 

You decide whether you want to risk your system...no one can make that decision for you, no one can guarantee failure/success, stability/instability...as the result of your efforts.

 

Louis


Edited by hamluis, 18 October 2016 - 11:39 AM.


#3 LucasAlmeida

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 09:18 AM

Hi Louis,

 

Thank you for your reply, it's a great piece of advice that I will take in consideration.

However, I would still like to know an exact definition for the term, not only for the overclocking matter, for which I indeed want to know the meaning of "overcloking can shorten the life of your hardware", but I also am intrested in know the term so I know when it is time to consider buying new hardware or just know when to expect my computer to start failing or even when extensive damage can occur (like exploding... I know this is quite a stretch, but I know capacitors can explode, so...). 

I'm usually very short on cash (I, indeed, do work, but that doesn't seem to resolve this issue XD) so I want know if these time estimates for harware are indications of absolutely necessary acquisition of new hardware.


Edited by LucasAlmeida, 18 October 2016 - 09:19 AM.


#4 Drillingmachine

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 11:07 AM

There are no general rules or "estimations" for computer parts durability. Generally even heavy overclocking does not shorten good quality component lifespan so much that it really matters. So like you buy $250 CPU that should last 20 years on normal use and overclocking shorten it's lifespan 4x. After 5 years it no much value left so it's not big deal even if it breaks down.



#5 RolandJS

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 11:14 AM

What is end of life (EOL)? - Definition from WhatIs.com

whatis.techtarget.com › Topics › IT Management › Business terms

 

End of life (EOL), in the context of manufacturing and product lifecycles, is the final stages of a product's existence. The particular concerns of end-of-life depend ...

 

 

End-of-life (product) - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-of-life_(product)

 

Wikipedia

End-of-life" (EOL) is a term used with respect to a product supplied to customers, indicating that ... For hardware with an expected lifetime of 10 years after production ends, the support includes spare parts, technical support and service.

 

IMO, the phrase "expected lifetime of 10 years" can be better stated:

"expected lifetime ranging from 5 to 10 years..."


Edited by RolandJS, 18 October 2016 - 11:15 AM.

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#6 LucasAlmeida

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 11:26 AM

Hi RolandJS,

I think these definitions are not quite the meaning for the question... when you see a processor ad, sometimes they states things like "the durability is increased, it now has a life expectancy of 10 years" and things of the sort.

I guess a more clear way of making my question is:

Does the term life expectancy of hardware means the same as in living things, where in the end of this time it will crash down and stop working, like, totally broken, or it will just start presenting issues and noises, or smoke will come out of it... ? Because they said overcloking is one of the things that could lower this "life expectancy", so this means it could make the device stop working faster, like, to the point of not turning on anymore (like a processor or gpu), or is ther just going to be little issues and system crashes? Or maybe none of these?

This is my question



#7 Drillingmachine

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 11:44 AM

Does the term life expectancy of hardware means the same as in living things, where in the end of this time it will crash down and stop working, like, totally broken, or it will just start presenting issues and noises, or smoke will come out of it... ? Because they said overcloking is one of the things that could lower this "life expectancy", so this means it could make the device stop working faster, like, to the point of not turning on anymore (like a processor or gpu), or is ther just going to be little issues and system crashes? Or maybe none of these?

 

When talking about processors, overclocking can damage CPU so that it works unreliably. And that unreliable operation can lead from "little issues" to system crashes or even prevent boot (=computer does not work).



#8 LucasAlmeida

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 11:49 AM

 

Does the term life expectancy of hardware means the same as in living things, where in the end of this time it will crash down and stop working, like, totally broken, or it will just start presenting issues and noises, or smoke will come out of it... ? Because they said overcloking is one of the things that could lower this "life expectancy", so this means it could make the device stop working faster, like, to the point of not turning on anymore (like a processor or gpu), or is ther just going to be little issues and system crashes? Or maybe none of these?

 

When talking about processors, overclocking can damage CPU so that it works unreliably. And that unreliable operation can lead from "little issues" to system crashes or even prevent boot (=computer does not work).

 

Ahh, now it's clear. So it makes the system unstable. It's not just from overcloking, as said before, I have my pc for more than 4 years, and I read somewhere that processor last 5 years in average, so I was afraid I would be using my computer one day and all of a sudden the PC would turn off and wouldn't turn on again and the processor would be totally broken and I would be forced to buy another, and I was afraid that overcloking would haste that process... but it seems it won't.

So, thank you, I consider this answered, if moderators would like to close the topic.


Edited by LucasAlmeida, 18 October 2016 - 11:50 AM.


#9 hamluis

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 11:59 AM

Well...to be honest...the phrase is just word-smithing.

 

The basic concept is...any manufactured item has a "projected useful life" which forms the basis for tax depreciation and actually has nothing at all to do with the "useful life" of any manufactured object.  Needless to say...there is no way for anyone or anything to compile stats on the actual useful life of every object or group of objects, capital assets or otherwise.

 

So...someone devised the "estimated useful life concept" and that concept forms the basic for depreciation taken by an entity on capital assets during a financial period.  This "estimated useful life" does not necessarily bear any relation to reality...it's a tax/business concept for handling capital assets.

 

Take a look at Windows, as a further illustration.  EOL has come and gone for XP per Microsoft...yet millions still are running XP daily, in spite of circumstances that indicate it's still useful and useable by many.  Microsoft has the advantage that it can pull all support for existing users of XP...but that's as far as they can go.  ;Even though the EOL has come for XP, it continues to be possible to use it for routine computering.

 

You might think that "useful life" for a component...might bear some relation to the warranty period...wrong :)!!

 

The warranty period for any component in a system does not exceed 3 years (I could be wrong about that) and we all know that the system and the components may function properly for a much longer period.

 

As I said...word-smithing is what you seek to chase down and you won't be able to...because they are just words and words get thrown around every day with the intent of convincing others that you know something they do not.  Forget the "end of life", "estimated useful life" and other arcane concepts...they have no real relationship with reality.

 

I would focus on how much risk I am willing to take...and my prospective actions if my decision involves taking a risk that I caqnot afford.

 

Louis



#10 LucasAlmeida

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 12:13 PM

Louis,

 

That's where it got confusing when RolandJS posted the definitions of EOL. They told about what you also explained, that it is a market term for, in summary, end of support and the stop of provision of spare parts and sales of that product.

However, if that's what vendors want to mean when you see the "Estimated life of product" on datasheets of processors, instead of the projected time until which the component will work (through stress testing, I'm guessing), then how would said harmful actions like overcloking would hasten this process? I'm aware it voids warranties, but what I was in doubt of is that, other than damaging the CPU through bad configuration of voltage input to the CPU, is if it could lead to total destruction of it, or if it wouldn't be that extreme. 



#11 RolandJS

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 01:04 PM

http://www.lavalys.com/community/blog/2010/04/top-7-myths-about-overclocking/

Lucas, you might enjoy the above article; it supports gradual overclocking even back then.


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#12 LucasAlmeida

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 01:18 PM

RolandJS,

 

This article is awesome! Amazingly helpful, mainly for the part where "your computer will explode" is considered a myth. Thank you very much.

I've been concerned with this "end of life" about my computer well before I considered overclocking, because it's old, but I've taken the oportunity to clear the confusion about this term now because of the fact that overclocking might speed up the aging of my computer, which is already a "senior" (AMD Athlon II X2, DDR2 RAM...) making it unusable soon, which is highly undesirable...

 


Edited by LucasAlmeida, 18 October 2016 - 01:20 PM.


#13 mjd420nova

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 09:58 PM

Lucas, I think what you're looking for are specs or stats on what overclocking does to not just the CPU but the peripheral devices and port drivers.  I replaced many buffer arrays when OC got out of hand and cratered ( blew the top off) the chip and toasted the PCB board underneath.  Some chips aren't made to meet OC options on the MOBO.  I have an IBM AT (INTEL 80286/80287) unit that still runs today.  Wouldn't think of running over 12 MHZ.  If you can decipher the chips on the MOBO to research their specs, there maybe other devices that are a one for one swap to handle higher clock speeds.  It takes some very good soldering skills and the risk of ruining the MOBO, but it's toasted already so a fix would make the owner happy.  Access to mfgr specs and mfgr catalogs can help.  Some mfgr use their own numbers on the exposed side, making removal necesary for identification that's on the underside of the device.



#14 LucasAlmeida

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Posted 19 October 2016 - 06:10 AM

Well guys,

 

Got to the point of no return. OC'd already. Both CPU and GPU.

What I found strange is that I was able to upgrade the base clock to 15% with no issues even after benchmarking, but when I rebooted the PC, it wouldn't turn on, and the BIOS stated "overclocking failed". After that, not even a 10% upgrade would work (which worked through a lot of reboots before) and got just about 8.5% in the end. Almost no improvements, unfortunately...

On the other hand, I was able to upgrade the GPU a whole lot, with almot 20fps improvement in games and no noticeable problems after extensive benchmarking so... bright side.

The bummer is I have a 500W (350RMS) PSU that I can just hope to endure a little longer, but it has always been enough for these old pieces of hardware.

Anyway, thanks for all the info you guys provided, also to you mjd420nova, which is information I will consider through, even though I'm almost sure I can't perform SMD soldering (PTH alright though).

I have a new question I'll be posting on another topic soon... Thank you all again.


Edited by LucasAlmeida, 19 October 2016 - 06:12 AM.


#15 ranchhand_

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Posted 19 October 2016 - 08:43 AM

I know this thread has reached "end of life" but I will throw in my thought.....overclocking is up to you, but expect a few crashes.

What you really should have on the top of your essential-list is a solid, dependable image backup system of your drive. Overclocking without a way of restoring a corrupted partition is playing Russian Roulette; sooner or later your bullet is going to chamber.


Help Requests: If there is no reply after 3 days I remove the thread from my answer list. For further help PM me.





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