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Windows 10 update installation on Windows 10 PCs-no work around yet


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#1 kelkay

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 11:01 AM

http://news.softpedia.com/news/users-start-reporting-installation-issues-with-windows-10-update-kb3194496-508818.shtml

 

<<<KB3194496 was officially released to retail users earlier today even after insiders complained of installation issues, so it’s no surprise that many more PCs are hit with the same problems.>>>

 

http://news.softpedia.com/news/microsoft-confirms-windows-10-cumulative-update-kb3194496-installation-issues-508844.shtml

 

So at this point, there is no work around for KB3194496.  Thankfully I did not have a problem with that one.  Microsoft is working on this.  But what bugs me about this is this:

<<<In addition to this new cumulative update fix that should land in the next few days, Microsoft is also expected to release a new one on October 11, when the company is also shipping Patch Tuesday fixes for all Windows computers. CUs for the original Windows 10 version and for November Update should also go live.>>>

 

Why in the world they do think it is okay to do so many changes at once is beyond me.  This wasn't just a random few people involved.  They can't say they didn't know as the insider builds had problems with it.  Yet, they decided it was fine to send it out as is, and deal with it later.  If they were a new company, would they do that?  If they did their days would be numbered.  Microsoft is not listening to their customers.  Stop sending buggy systems out, and then drive us crazy with fixes and patches, and workarounds.  Yes there will need to be some tweaks down the road, but this is ridiculous. 



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#2 britechguy

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 11:32 AM

kelkay,

 

          Let me first say that what follows is not a defense of Microsoft in any way.  I agree that doing what they did here is ridiculous.

 

          The above being said, this is not, in any way, limited to Microsoft nor to "big companies that have been around a while."   One of the reasons I got out of IT at the corporate level was because, way back in the 1990s, what began to drive everything about development was arbitrary deadlines that were set by people who know absolutely nothing about what needs to be done in order to create and adequately test functionality.  What's worse is that these arbitrary deadlines are then broadcast to the world at large, and create expectations when, if not met, will have a negative impact on stock price.

 

           The old, and correct, system of putting together a list of what's wanted, getting specs created to implement it, and having developers look at those specs and tell management what the timeline should and will be died a long, long time ago.   The attitude of IT management, particularly once you get above first level managers who still know what is actually "going on down on the ground," is that, There's always time to do it over, but never time to do it right in the first place when we want it by <insert arbitrary date here>."

 

            I have simply come to expect that this sort of inanity will continue because those in positions of power just won't stop doing what they're doing that drives it all.  We see an example of similar with the Samsung Note 7 disaster.  It's not that Samsung is directly responsible for the battery situation, but when a company can't even accurately know which suppliers' battery they put in which serial numbered product, something's wrong.  The rush to market has all kinds of potential ramifications that never get considered, at all, ahead of time.  But there's always time to backpedal and try to mop things up when it all goes wrong.  Bass Ackwards!


Edited by britechguy, 02 October 2016 - 11:34 AM.

Brian AKA Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

 

     In a modern society where everyone thinks their opinion deserves to be heard nothing annoys me more than individuals who mistake their personal preferences for fact.

         ~ Commenter TheCruyffGurn on the The Guardian website, 8/13/2014

 

              

 


#3 JohnC_21

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 11:33 AM

IMHO these constant updates on Windows 10 are getting to the point where updates are patching the previous update. I don't know what happened to their QA but I don't have much hope it will improve.

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/09/30/microsoft_windows_update_manager_job/


Edited by JohnC_21, 02 October 2016 - 11:33 AM.


#4 kelkay

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 12:09 PM

Thank you both for your thoughts.  There is no way I'd want to be an update manager.  There isn't enough money for the strain on your health.  John that story you posted has 90 comments thus far.  I guess it struck a nerve with other people too.  Oh I see Bing is a user reading the topic....LOL...good.  I wonder if it is a BingBOT?  Britechguy  I see what you are saying of course.  Why announce until you are ready to do the final touches, or it is ready to go?  If you send it out right, there will be less headaches down the road, and happy customers.  I loved Microsoft up until about 3 years ago.  Their customers are leaving them in droves.  They know that obviously.  For many people this is their last chance.  The honeymoon phase is over.  Now it is time to face reality.  There was another computer type company who made hardware that I liked.  But they have lost my business.  Because I thought so well of Microsoft, I've stuck with them.  But I am more than on the fence now.  Will they change for the better?  That is the question.  It seems they will not.  But I hope they prove me wrong.  I'd really like to stay with them, if possible.



#5 Niweg

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 12:14 PM

 If you look in the answers.microsoft.com forums for Windows 10, there are hundreds of complaints coming continuously about KB3194496.  I was fortunate that it went on without problems for me, but this kind of forced update sure is creating a lot of ill will for MS.  And these cumulative updates just keep getting bigger and bigger.  When I have to support numerous PCs with 1.5 Mbps DSL speeds, I just wonder when it will dawn to MS that they need to make some significant changes to their update policy.  :(


Make regular full system backups or you'll be sorry sooner or later.


#6 britechguy

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 12:26 PM

Niweg,

 

          Just FYI, if you're in a place where all those PCs happen to be on the same network make sure you go to the "Advanced options" link, followed by the "Choose how updates are delivered link" in Windows Update.  Then make sure that the update sharing among "PCs on my local network" is activated.

 

          It can save you having to download a given update more than once since whichever machine gets it first will be the "sharing machine" for that update if this setting is on for all PCs on your local network.  I would never think of activating the "on my local network or on the internet" option for a variety of reasons.


Brian AKA Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

 

     In a modern society where everyone thinks their opinion deserves to be heard nothing annoys me more than individuals who mistake their personal preferences for fact.

         ~ Commenter TheCruyffGurn on the The Guardian website, 8/13/2014

 

              

 


#7 JohnC_21

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 12:27 PM

@Niweg, how big are these cumulative updates?



#8 rp88

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 07:05 PM

"What's worse is that these arbitrary deadlines are then broadcast to the world at large, and create expectations when, if not met, will have a negative impact on stock price" I must say, if I were planning to invest in a tech company I'd do it with one that seemed to be making products that worked but were late rather than vice-versa. Similarly to what the founder of rolls-royce said (quality is remembered long after the price) I think "quality is remembered long after the fact it was a little later than expected to go on the market/get updated" must surely be true. Being a little late annoys people, doing a bad job loses a company customers and encourages potential buyers to go elsewhere.
Back on this site, for a while anyway, been so busy the last year.

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#9 kelkay

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 07:33 PM

"What's worse is that these arbitrary deadlines are then broadcast to the world at large, and create expectations when, if not met, will have a negative impact on stock price" I must say, if I were planning to invest in a tech company I'd do it with one that seemed to be making products that worked but were late rather than vice-versa. Similarly to what the founder of rolls-royce said (quality is remembered long after the price) I think "quality is remembered long after the fact it was a little later than expected to go on the market/get updated" must surely be true. Being a little late annoys people, doing a bad job loses a company customers and encourages potential buyers to go elsewhere.

Yes, I agree completely on that.



#10 Niweg

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 04:23 PM

@Niweg, how big are these cumulative updates?

 KB3189866 came out 9/16 and was 261 MB for 32 bit and over 400 MB for 64 bit.  I went to check it at 

http://catalog.update.microsoft.com , but it's not there any more.  It was superceeded by KB3194496, but MS never put that on the catalog because it was buggy.  Oh well, tomorrow's patch Tue., so we'll see what comes out tomorrow.  

 

 Sorry for the delayed reply, but I've been busy with insider build 14942 which suddenly doesn't work with 3rd party antivirus programs.  I finally got it working after doing a clean install.


Make regular full system backups or you'll be sorry sooner or later.


#11 JohnC_21

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 04:38 PM

Thanks for the update. I am giving up on the Windows 7 and 8 rollups through WU and only going with the Security Rollups on the Windows Update Catalog. Will see how it goes tomorrow or later in the week.



#12 Niweg

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 01:57 PM

  Today MS has come out with cumulative update KB3194798 which is 779.7 MB for 64 bit versions, 421.4 MB for 32 bit.  I just wonder how big these will get before customers with slower download speeds will start seriously complaining.  I download them at home, put them on a flash drive, and take them to the 28 desktops (in 4 separate locations) I support.


Make regular full system backups or you'll be sorry sooner or later.


#13 JohnC_21

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 02:43 PM

I thought that the cumulative update would only download the required updates in order to keep the download small when done through WU. I have already downloaded the Security only updates for Windows 7 and 8.1 along with .NET. 

 

I tried checking for updates on a Windows 7 computer but the CPU when to 50% and checking just seemed to go on forever before I stopped the WU service. 



#14 Niweg

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 04:30 PM

 Windows only installs the needed parts of the update, but they download the whole thing.  The smart way would be to do the analysis before downloading, but they don't have the packaging or testing to allow that.  They've said this simplifies testing and trouble shooting for them, and I'm sure that's true.  When you can just tell folks to download a pot full of stuff and hope they just go away, that no doubt does save them time and money.  Doesn't do much for customer satisfaction though!  I've noticed that Dell tells you to update BIOS and everything else before they will help you as well.  I guess when folks were paying thousands for computers they could do things differently.  :(


Make regular full system backups or you'll be sorry sooner or later.


#15 britechguy

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 04:57 PM

These days, realistically speaking, unless your primary source of internet service is dial-up or true wireless (that is, not DSL/Cable with WiFi), speed and/or data volume are seldom issues.

 

Microsoft, and all computer makers, slowly transition to delivery based upon what is the most commonly available method of transit and these days that's generally broadband with no data caps.  I have DSL that's 4.5 Mbps upstream/0.9 Mbps downstream, which is hardly lightning fast by any broadband standard these days (including 4G true wireless) and these cumulative updates don't take that long to download.  Given that you can now set active hours to block downloading for up to 12 hours per day, and that's soon to expand to 18 hours per day, you have a lot of control over making updates download when you're most likely to be away from the machine.  I don't even know if most old-style Windows Updates that were on the large side (and I don't mean cumulative ones, either) would succeed downloading over dial-up these days.

 

There is no way that Microsoft, or any other company, can or should operate based upon the presumption that dial-up speeds are the norm anywhere or that slow DSL will not be sufficient for virtually any of the cumulative updates to download during the most restricted number of hours available.

 

You literally cannot please all of the people all of the time.  Companies have to operate on the presumption that people buying new technology, or choosing to upgrade to an OS where the nature of updates was well publicized, have the data throughput to handle it.  To suggest otherwise is simply not reasonable or we'd all be back in the days of DOS.

 

Windows, along with every other operating system I've dealt with at the PC level, has required less and less end-user intervention and effort to maintain as time has gone by.  Most of that is the direct result of automatic updates.  You really don't get one without the other and the market has already spoken, and loudly, about what it wants on that front.  There is no "one size fits all" but there's plenty of latitude in the "one size fits the majority of our customers" range.


Edited by britechguy, 11 October 2016 - 05:01 PM.

Brian AKA Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

 

     In a modern society where everyone thinks their opinion deserves to be heard nothing annoys me more than individuals who mistake their personal preferences for fact.

         ~ Commenter TheCruyffGurn on the The Guardian website, 8/13/2014

 

              

 





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