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dependable ergonomic mouse


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#1 kelkay

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 12:53 PM

I have enjoyed my Logitech trackballs in the past.  I have had 2-3 of them.  The last one was the Logitech M570.  The micro switch is bad I guess.  It double clicks when you single click, and it also the hold and drag releases early, or will not highlight the area you want it to.  I had this mouse about two years. 

I would love it if people would recommend a mouse that has quality sensors, that is dependable.  I do not want Microsoft or Logitech.  Neither of the last two mice I bought from either company held up, and I do not do gaming. It doesn't have to be a trackball.  The last Microsoft mouse I bought went with my Win7 laptop.  It stunk.  Plus they tried to say you couldn't use it on more than one computer.  I didn't know about that, until I opened the package.  I have thought about Kensington, but some of their mice are quite pricey.  If it will hold up, I could pay it I guess.  Recommendations or thoughts would be most welcome.  If I have to, I can just keep using the manufacturer cheapo that I got with the computer.  (I'm using a desktop)

 

Oh, I have a Win10 computer.  I'd like this mouse to work on Linux as well.  (or an older 8.0/8.1 computer that is less than 3 years old)


Edited by kelkay, 27 September 2016 - 01:04 PM.


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#2 smax013

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 12:01 AM

Personally, I tend to prefer Logitech mice. My current one is a G602. I have had it for more than a year now with no issues. My other Logitech mice still work, just wanted a good wireless one with a few more buttons.

But then you said you don't like/want Logitech. So, I don't necessarily have any good recommendations for you.

I will suggest that you might want to define a bit more by what YOU mean by ergonomic. Do you really want what is considered a true ergonomic mouse (such as a "vertical mouse" or "pen mouse")? Or are you more just asking for what someone would recommend as "comfortable" "regular" mouse? I will note that the latter is highly dependent on each individual. For example, some people love Apple's Magic Mouse due to its low, flat profile. I hate it.

#3 kelkay

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 12:36 AM

I loved the M570 once I got used to a thumb ball.  I preferred a top center ball, since that was what I was used to.  But I read about micro switch problems, and I'm not going to put a lot of work into it, to fix it.  Some people had their mouse go out in a much shorter time than I did.  I want an true ergonomic mouse, that will be easy on my joints in my hand.  I don't want a vertical mouse, or a small mouse.  I don't want a flat mouse either, such as the SlimBlade by Kensington.  I'd rather have a wired mouse this time around because of mouse jacking.  I was looking at the Expert Mouse Trackball (wired) by Kensington, or the Kensington Orbit Trackball with scroll ring.  I like the back and forward button on the trackball, and I don't think the Orbit Trackball has that.  It is left or right click, and that is it.  I don't need gamer buttons or super fast trackball speeds. 



#4 smax013

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 12:51 AM

I loved the M570 once I got used to a thumb ball.  I preferred a top center ball, since that was what I was used to.  But I read about micro switch problems, and I'm not going to put a lot of work into it, to fix it.  Some people had their mouse go out in a much shorter time than I did.  I want an true ergonomic mouse, that will be easy on my joints in my hand.  I don't want a vertical mouse, or a small mouse.  I don't want a flat mouse either, such as the SlimBlade by Kensington.  I'd rather have a wired mouse this time around because of mouse jacking.  I was looking at the Expert Mouse Trackball (wired) by Kensington, or the Kensington Orbit Trackball with scroll ring.  I like the back and forward button on the trackball, and I don't think the Orbit Trackball has that.  It is left or right click, and that is it.  I don't need gamer buttons or super fast trackball speeds.


FWIW, the MouseJack issue is less of an issue with current mice I believe. I know that Logitech provide a firmware update to their affected mice and their new "unified" wireless system is encrypted, so it should not be an issue. I would assume this is also true of the major mice manufacturer's (i.e. Microsoft, Kensington, Razer, etc), but have not researched them. And frankly, I doubt anyone really has enough a beef with me to go through that effort with me on my home computers.

Kensington has been doing trackballs for quite a while now (kind of started on the Mac if memory serves me). Beyond that, I am not much help. I believe I had a Kensington ADB (Apple Desktop Bus) mouse a LONG, LONG time ago, but I can recall for sure.

#5 kelkay

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 02:16 AM

Thank you smax.  That was nice of you to try and help me.  I definitely appreciate it very much!  I understand what you mean about the encryption, but the hackers seem to find a way to keep a step ahead.  I don't have a wireless keyboard, and I don't plan on getting one either. 

 

I just found this article below.  I'm just gonna get a wired one, and not worry about it.  Odds are I would be fine, but I don't know how long it would stay that way.  There was a lot more concerning stuff than just that paragraph. 

 

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/600864/how-hackable-is-your-wireless-keyboard-and-mouse/

 

<<<none of the mouses it tested encrypted their clicks. Also, while most of the keyboards the company tested do encrypt their data before sending it to the dongle, the dongles didn’t always require that the data be encrypted. Both of these things would make it possible for a hacker to fool the dongle on a victim’s computer into thinking that his remote clicks and keystrokes are legitimate.>>>



#6 smax013

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 01:14 PM

Thank you smax.  That was nice of you to try and help me.  I definitely appreciate it very much!  I understand what you mean about the encryption, but the hackers seem to find a way to keep a step ahead.  I don't have a wireless keyboard, and I don't plan on getting one either. 
 
I just found this article below.  I'm just gonna get a wired one, and not worry about it.  Odds are I would be fine, but I don't know how long it would stay that way.  There was a lot more concerning stuff than just that paragraph. 
 
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/600864/how-hackable-is-your-wireless-keyboard-and-mouse/
 
<<<none of the mouses it tested encrypted their clicks. Also, while most of the keyboards the company tested do encrypt their data before sending it to the dongle, the dongles didn’t always require that the data be encrypted. Both of these things would make it possible for a hacker to fool the dongle on a victim’s computer into thinking that his remote clicks and keystrokes are legitimate.>>>


And from the same article is this paragraph noting that Logitech released a patch fixing that problem as I mentioned in the previous post:

In a statement, Logitech’s senior director of engineering, Asif Ahsan, said the company came up with a software update to fix the problem. However, the vulnerability Bastille detected “would be complex to replicate” since it requires being physically close to the victim, he said, which makes it “a difficult and unlikely path of attack.”


And in that same article there are other things that indicate that manufacturers are taking the issue seriously.

Not trying to convince you to go wireless. If wired works for you, then stick with it. More pointing out that MouseJack is likely not much an issue anymore as once it was discovered, companies addressed the issue. Is it possible that there are other unknown security issues with wireless mice/keyboards? Sure. But, then there are likely tons of unknown security issues with lots of things out there...that is why they are unknown. :grinner:

So, personally, I am not going to worry about someone trying to remotely control my mouse. I did pick the mouse necessarily because it is wireless. I picked it because I liked the feel and the number of buttons that I could map to things I wanted the mouse to do. And I could not find an equivalent wired mouse at the time with the same number of buttons (other than MMO mice, but I did not want a "keypad" of buttons on the side of the mouse like what MMO mice have). It would have been fine if the mouse was wired, but I find I like not having the wire.

Of course, if I decided to go with a trackball, then wireless seems pointless to me. Trackballs by their very nature don't need to move, so a wire is less of an issue. A mouse that moves is better in my experience without a wire getting in the way. But, the only reason to worry about a wire with a trackball is basically aesthetic reasons...and I don't care about that (I use a wired keyboard, so I have wires on my desktop anyway).

#7 kelkay

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 01:38 PM

I agree about the trackball not needing to be wireless, since you don't move it anyway.  I guess I am concerned that if there is a will, there is a way....  We take two steps forward, and one step back.  Going wireless was great, until it wasn't.  I used to have a wireless router too, but not anymore.  I am starting to believe wired is safer, although not the most convenient way.  Who would've thought back in the mid 80's that there would be skimmers on ATM machines?  Well I am straying off subject, forgive me.  I am still on the hunt for a nice ergonomic mouse, that is wired.  (I prefer trackballs)  If anyone has the Kensington Orbit with Scroll Ring, can you tell me if you can use software to program the right button to go backward and forward on a web page?  I doubt if it can, but I would like to know for sure.  I don't think any of them with two buttons can do that.  So I may have to get a gaming trackball mouse that is pretty ergonomic.  I looked a long time at various models, but haven't found " the one ".



#8 smax013

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 01:51 PM

I agree about the trackball not needing to be wireless, since you don't move it anyway.  I guess I am concerned that if there is a will, there is a way....  We take two steps forward, and one step back.  Going wireless was great, until it wasn't.  I used to have a wireless router too, but not anymore.  I am starting to believe wired is safer, although not the most convenient way.  Who would've thought back in the mid 80's that there would be skimmers on ATM machines?  Well I am straying off subject, forgive me.  I am still on the hunt for a nice ergonomic mouse, that is wired.  (I prefer trackballs)


All I can really say is that the mouse that I use is ergonomic for me. :grinner: Fits well in my hand and I don't seem to have any wrist, etc problems with it.

If anyone has the Kensington Orbit with Scroll Ring, can you tell me if you can use software to program the right button to go backward and forward on a web page?  I doubt if it can, but I would like to know for sure.  I don't think any of them with two buttons can do that.  So I may have to get a gaming trackball mouse that is pretty ergonomic.  I looked a long time at various models, but haven't found " the one ".


According to the Kensington page, the Orbit with Scroll Ring does supposedly allow for customization of the two buttons:

https://www.kensington.com/us/us/4493/k72337us/orbit-trackball-with-scroll-ring

See the second item under Features and second graphical item further down the page.

It is not super specific, so I am not completely sure how "trust-worthy" it is. Potential only way to be sure is buy one and try it.

Of course, if you re-assign both buttons, then how do you do a "regular" mouse click (unless the trackball itself can be pressed as a button like some scroll wheels on mice can...as I said, never used a trackball)? That is where I would like go with the 4 button Expert Mouse Trackball if it were me...except it seems potentially less ergonomic (the wrist rest helps) and definitely uglier.

#9 kelkay

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 02:53 PM

I tend to agree with what you are saying on the Kensington Orbit with Scroll Ring.  The Expert trackball was something else I've looked at.  But I also read where someone said that it wasn't that ergonomic, and they had joint/tendon pain using it.  That is why I posted the question here.  I figured some people would have something, that I would like that they've tried and can vouch for.  I'm even desperate enough to spend more money on a CST trackball, but then I see the two button scenario stares me in the face again.  CST2545W(GL) that one is at least two times more than I wanted to spend initially.  They have one that you can add buttons to the exterior of the mousepad, but I wouldn't care for that.  It does have a middle button, and a scroll ring.  They are pricey, and only have a one year warranty.  (but seem very well built) 

 

Then I read this under warranty:

<<<

If this equipment does cause interference to radio or television equipment reception, which can be determined by turning the equipment off and on, the user is encouraged to try to correct the interference by one or more of the following measures:

 

·          Reorient or relocate the receiving antenna

·          Increase the separation between equipment and receiver

·          Connect the equipment into an outlet on a circuit different from that to which the

           receiver is connected

·          Consult the dealer or an experienced radio or television technician for help.

>>>

http://clearlysuperiortech.com/warranty.html

 

So that may not pertain to a wired mouse, I do not know.  The mouse would point in the general direction of the electric "smart" meter.  (but not directly at it,or too close)

 

So I am kind of unsure about all of this.  I don't want to put money down on something I am not sure about.  I also considered Elecom.  (Japanese made though) 



#10 kelkay

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 04:50 PM

Well I thought for sure we'd have some more trackball users here.  I went with an Elecom trackball.  It hasn't gotten here yet. 






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