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Samsung Magician won't clone my Linux partition!?


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#1 paul88ks

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 01:45 AM

 I installed my new Samsung 850 Pro SSD without a problem except one.The Samsung Magician did not clone my entire hard drive,only the Windows partition.I have two Linux installations on that drive as well.Linux Mint,and Ubuntu Studio. Is there a program that will copy (Clone) my entire hard drive,or will I have to reinstall Linux. Other than this issue, i am amazed at how fast my SSD is. Boot time is about 30 seconds. I know someone out there can help with this issue-----



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#2 cat1092

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 03:03 AM

Paul, you can install Macrium Reflect on the Windows partition & create WinPE media (you'll be prompted for a 300-400MB download from Microsoft, press OK to continue). 

 

Boot from that, and you can clone the entire drive. I've successfully cloned Linux Mint 17.3 twice using the bootable WinPE media. Be sure to download Macrium Reflect from File Hippo, if you go through Macrium to get their free version, you'll be redirected to Download.com, and who knows what's piggybacking along with Macrium Reflect. It's the best free backup/recovery/cloning software for years & with File Hippo, it'll be a 100% clean download. 

 

http://filehippo.com/download_macrium_reflect/

 

In fact, after disabling Fast Boot, Hibernation, System Restore & running Disk Cleanup using the System cleanup option, was able in late 2013 to clone a 1TiB HDD in my XPS 8700 to a 120GiB Samsung 840 EVO, even the Recovery partition & still had nearly 60% of the space free. A member here who posted in my Build Topic, badr0b0t, gave me the assist to pull it off, and will forever remember him for the amazing feat. :)

 

Since I've never used Samsung Magician for anything than to manage the SSD on Windows, cannot comment on any other features of the software. 

 

Good Luck! :)

 

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Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 


#3 paul88ks

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 03:11 AM

Cool - thanks! I downloaded Clonezilla and was going to give it a try,but I will download macrium as well! I appreciate your help. The SSD is super,super fast.I haven't benchmarked the read/write speeds yet,but will tomorrow! It's been a long day and I am going to bed. I don't know why Samsung Magician didn't even "see" my Linux partitions. I used Gparted to shrink the drive down to size,and left 50 gigs at the end of the drive for provisioning(just to be safe) then ran the Samsung Magician and it took an hour and a half to clone the drive-and to my surprise,all it copied was the Windows partition--??????



#4 cat1092

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 04:03 AM

 

 

I don't know why Samsung Magician didn't even "see" my Linux partitions.

 

It doesn't for me either, this is more of a Windows deal, Samsung Magician is a Windows app, am unsure about Mac, though certainly not Linux. I've read of pure Windows users having trouble cloning their HDD/SDD to a new Samsung SSD with whatever tool is provided, so it's not surprising that Linux users are out of luck. 

 

Like with every other brand of device, us Linux users are left to our own to figure out issues, and am grateful to have the open community that we do. Whereas on some dedicated Linux forums, those who are self proclaimed Linux 'experts' are often mistreating those who doesn't know it all. And if one were on a Linux forum & mentioned cloning of Windows, forget any assistance from anyone. Many of which has a 'silent', though known rule, to not assist Windows users in any way, shape or form, or pay the price if they do. That price is to be in the doghouse for a few weeks to months, depending on forum & what assistance was given. Many will be ran off, or wished they had moved elsewhere. On some, even the Administrators & Moderators openly gets in on the bashing & encourages others to pounce on the 'offender' & the newbie alike. 

 

While things has improves some since I first got into Linux, we have members coming here & saying this is still going on. So for most of the first two years I ran Linux Mint, ran the OS as was shipped, not wanting to get the cold shoulder, and participated on manly Windows forums that has a Linux community. These has a much reduced rate of bashing, and the same rules that applies to all users of the forum, like it is here. 

 

However, as far as hardware support, we're still on our own, as Intel, AMD, NVIDIA & others puts as little resources as possible for Linux users. Intel makes a half hearted effort to assist Linux users, other than for business class customers, and as been seen, AMD turned their backs on us by not supporting fglrx for Ubuntu 16.04 afterwards, while giving full support to Windows users having the same cards, and while there is support for NVIDIA, it comes from a 3rd party PPA rebundling the drivers, and this is why we're still one version behind. 

 

So I'm not in the least surprised that Samsung has pulled the same deal. We purchase their hardware, then get kicked in the teeth for doing so, as far as support goes. However, I bet one this, while Samsung can't read Linux from Windows, it can read the TBW written on the SSD, regardless of the OS used. This is also how the warranty is determined. Yes it's 10 years, or 150 TBW (terabytes written), though I suspect that the large majority of consumers, even hardcore gamers, would reach that amount of usage. Still, Linux usage counts towards writes, that part can be 'seen' by the installed Samsung Magician app. 

 

 

 

I used Gparted to shrink the drive down to size,and left 50 gigs at the end of the drive for provisioning(just to be safe)

 

Good deal on the over-provisioning, there are some SSD's that has this built in, by having inaccessible blocks, yet we don't know for sure which has or doesn't have this feature inbuilt. Better to be safe than sorry. :)

 

Hopefully Macrium Reflect will do what you want, has for me, every time. :thumbup2:

 

Cat


Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 


#5 NickAu

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 05:02 PM

Try this.

ssd - Samsung Magician on Ubuntu 14.04 - Ask Ubuntu

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#6 pcpunk

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 09:14 PM

It seems they have accomplished this even though it says this in the official PDF and at the download page.

 

"Hardware Requirements: 

 

1. SSD • The following Samsung SSDs are supported: - Samsung SSD SM863 * - Samsung SSD PM863

 

* * This software version has been fully verified only with firmware version that was pre-installed in the device by the company. Therefore, users may be limited from using this software under other firmware versions or other certain circumstances."  

 

pg. 7 of this pdf.

http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/downloads/document/Samsung_Magician_DC_Brand_v2_User_Guide.pdf

 

Way over my head!  Thanks for posting Nick!  I look forward to seeing if anyone will use this!


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#7 paul88ks

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 10:41 PM

 

 

Good deal on the over-provisioning, there are some SSD's that has this built in, by having inaccessible blocks, yet we don't know for sure which has or doesn't have this feature inbuilt. Better to be safe than sorry.

I am assuming I can change this at a later point if I have erred on the side of caution a bit too much?

 

I am using the Macrium program to clone the drive,and it's working,but seems to be taking a very long time. I had to unplug the drive from the motherboard and plug it in via a USB 2.0 is all I have, so that may be the reason.Anyway,Macrium says that it couln't clone the destination drive at first because it could not lock it down,and that it was in use. Don't know why that happened,but that's why I plugged it in via USB. It is currently cloning- been over two hours now,but that's ok. Will give you an update on the end result!



#8 paul88ks

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 10:46 PM

I tried clonezilla,but the destination drive was smaller than the source.I had shrunk the volumes so I would have enough space, but Clonezilla was counting an empty partition.I guess I could have gone back and deleted the partition with Gparted,but I was growing impatient,which is not like me at all. Thanks everyone for your suggestions!



#9 cat1092

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 03:25 AM

 

 

 

Good deal on the over-provisioning, there are some SSD's that has this built in, by having inaccessible blocks, yet we don't know for sure which has or doesn't have this feature inbuilt. Better to be safe than sorry.

I am assuming I can change this at a later point if I have erred on the side of caution a bit too much?

 

I am using the Macrium program to clone the drive,and it's working,but seems to be taking a very long time. I had to unplug the drive from the motherboard and plug it in via a USB 2.0 is all I have, so that may be the reason.Anyway,Macrium says that it couln't clone the destination drive at first because it could not lock it down,and that it was in use. Don't know why that happened,but that's why I plugged it in via USB. It is currently cloning- been over two hours now,but that's ok. Will give you an update on the end result!

 

 

So what happened with Macrium? It should had been a simple clone. :)

 

You highlight the drive you want to clone, then select a drive to clone to, and one by one, from the left, drag & drop the partitions onto the destination. At that point, you'll know if it's going to work or not, because if there's 'too much' data, you'll have to shrink partitions or delete unneeded data, such as junk files, old downloads you'll never use again, run disk cleanup using the System Files clean option & be sure to check Windows Update leftovers or files (you'll have to reboot afterwards & it'll look like you're updating again, this is normal). 

 

The only other option I've used & this was sometime back, was EaseUS Todo Backup, which also offers a clone option in the Free Edition, yet this was 3-4 years back. 

 

Have never tried Clonezilla, because there's so many options to choose from that one wouldn't know which to try. I mean, why not one download each for 32 & 64 bit computers in bold to keep it simple for Home users, and leave the rest for advanced users. It is the way the site is organized (a non-user friendly one) as to why I haven't tried Clonezilla. 

 

As for Macrium, like I stated, I've successfully cloned two different Linux Mint installs, 17.3, and one of the other 17 releases, from HDD to SSD. No problems, though on the first boot afterwards, it took a bit of extra time to configure things, maybe 30 seconds at the most. I tried walking another member through this simple to use app & it took 2-3 weeks to 'figure it out'. It took me only seconds, and had never used it before, as far as cloning goes. One thing that's important, if possible, to remove the drive to be cloned to docking station, enclosure, USB adapter, whatever, and install the drive to be cloned before beginning. 

 

Or if there's space inside the computer for both, which is faster, go that way. You choose Disk Image in the upper right, and then click onto the one you want to clone & there'll be two options, Image this Disk or Clone this Disk, it's as simple as that. One thing that can cause issues during cloning (as well as restoring backups), are messed up file systems. One common error may be 'broken pipe'. Otherwise, as long as the progress bar is moving, don't stop the clone, it takes time to convert, plus setup TRIM for SSD, which adds time to the operation. :)

 

So what went wrong with Macrium Reflect? I've been using the brand for backup since 2008 or so, and since 2013 for cloning. The only times I had trouble with clones was with other's computers, wanting to upgrade from a HDD to SSD, and there was either too much data to clone, or the file system was corrupted. A couple of times I was able to finish by using the Full disk check & repair, other times there were way too many bad sectors to complete the operation. Which is the last thing one wants to carry over to a new SSD, corrupted baggage from the old install. That is useless, and will place a heavy burden on the SSD to repair. 

 

Please keep us updated on your progress, I know that somehow, you can pull this off, as long as the current drive is healthy. Plus any cables used for the transfer. :)

 

Cat


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#10 cat1092

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 04:18 AM



I tried clonezilla,but the destination drive was smaller than the source.I had shrunk the volumes so I would have enough space, but Clonezilla was counting an empty partition.I guess I could have gone back and deleted the partition with Gparted,but I was growing impatient,which is not like me at all. Thanks everyone for your suggestions!

 

If that empty partition is a Linux one, remember, this is a sector to sector clone, so like I stated above, unload the excess baggage. It takes longer to clone a Linux partition, regardless of how much or little data is there, because of the filesystem (ext4), so if you have an empty one, delete it, the same applies to Windows partitions that's empty. 

 

Also, what are you cloning (the source drive & size)? While you've mentioned the Samsung 850 Pro as the destination disk, which is fast, even at SATA-2 speeds, and could probably even push a 1st gen SATA computer to the limit, you've not stated anything about the source disk. We can assist better when everything is on the table. :)

 

One thing though, you must ensure your partitions, including Linux ones, are small enough to transfer. If you have space for two drives, I recommend keeping /home on a HDD. This frees up a lot of space, giving you room for more Linux installs if needed, and 40GiB root partitions are plenty to prevent overfilling past the 50% mark. In general, you want your partition to be no more than 50% full for best performance, going above 60% begins to make it harder for the controllers to keep the SSD clean & fast, and going over 70% is critical, it just makes your CPU work like mad to run TRIM & GC (Garbage Collection). That means less CPU for you to have for Your needs. :)

 

So a good rule of thumb is 10% over-provisioning (as recommended by Samsung), and choose the Maximum Capacity plan which will drop your page file (same as Swap on Linux) to 200MB min, 1024MB max, as well as get rid of Hibernation (Sleep is just as good on desktop PC) & System Restore. Your best System Restore is a physical one in a backup or disk image. Because when dual booting, System Restore is often useless anyway, it throws things off. Plus it's not as good as it was on Windows XP on later versions of Windows (one of the few apps of XP I'll endorse). 

 

That said, if you tell us what you wish to accomplish, we can point you in the right direction. Again, I recommend having /home on a HDD, it'll be just as fast, all of my Linux Mint /home partition are on HDD's. Here's Windows 10 as a Preview on HDD in a VM, it's now an activated OS because I was an early tester, we were rewarded with licenses on the same computer, can reinstall if needed. :)

 

Screenshot-14_1.png

 

Here's another on the same HDD as a VM within Linux Mint as above, the WEI is better than that of many off the shelf PC's. How many folks do we know who gets a WEI of 6.0 on HDD's? 

 

Screenshot-10-1.png

 

These are examples to prove that /home is just as well on a HDD over a SSD. :)

 

Cat


Edited by cat1092, 27 September 2016 - 09:02 PM.

Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 


#11 Havachat

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 04:46 AM

I too had issues with the Magician Cloning , and decided to use MinitoolPartitonWizard.  https://www.partitionwizard.com/partitionmanager/copy-disk-partition.html

 

Drive was 500G -  C:/  and D:/  and Cloned to SSD  Samsung 500 EVO.

Win 7 = 40 GIG Data , and D:/ Data = 200GIG.

Slaved SSD / Selected all Partitions / And Cloned in 20 Minutes.

Swapped out Drives and Booted = All Good.

Done the Extra Settings via Magician - Over Provisioning and Set at Max Performance  / Disabled SRestore - Etc.

 

So maybe give it a Try........?


Edited by Havachat, 27 September 2016 - 04:49 AM.


#12 paul88ks

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 03:53 PM

 

 

Also, what are you cloning (the source drive & size)? While you've mentioned the Samsung 850 Pro as the destination disk, which is fast, even at SATA-2 speeds, and could probably even push a 1st gen SATA computer to the limit, you've not stated anything about the source disk. We can assist better when everything is on the table.  :)

The source drive is a Western Digital 600 Gig, which is why initially Clonezilla would not let me copy it to the Samssung 512 Gig. I went back and and shrunk the size of the partitions using Gparted, and deleted the empty partition. Then i used Macrium Reflect to clone the drive. It did clone the drive,but something went wrong with grub,because when I plugged the drive in , it went to Grub Rescue,which I know nothing about. I know that the bootloaders for Linux were in the two Linux partitions. One in Linux Mint,the other in Ubuntu Studio, and I copied the Windows partition as well. It took nearly 5 hours to clone the drive. But either it didn''t work or I did something wrong.probably the latter.

 

 

 

That said, if you tell us what you wish to accomplish, we can point you in the right direction. Again, I recommend having /home on a HDD, it'll be just as fast, all of my Linux Mint /home partition are on HDD's. Here's Windows 10 as a Preview on HDD in a VM, it's now an activated OS because I was an early tester, we were rewarded with licenses on the same computer, can reinstall if needed.  :)

I'm not sure i understand how to place /home on a separate HDD during installation. May need some pointers there.

 

This is what I want to have installed on the Samsung SSD Windows 10/Ubuntu Studio 16.4 I had Linux Mint on the old HDD as well but am willing to forego that since I will only be using this computer in the music studio. 

 

I went back again after the botched copy process and recopied Windows 10 to the SSD using Samsung Magician. At this point,I am thinking of just installing Ubuntu Studio manually on the SSD so I will have what I need.

 

Once I get Ubuntu Studio installed,up and running, I will then have the WD 600 gig free to do however I wish- 



#13 paul88ks

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 07:20 PM

Ok- I have Windows/Ubuntu Studio installed.It's up and running. It's been so long since I set up a dualboot system that I I had to Download Easy BCD to get the Ubuntu Studio to show up in the boot loader. Then after several updates and reboots,for some reason Windows Bootloader took over. Now I get the Black Screen on Boot up that shows Windows and Ubuntu Studio. It's all working,and super fast! I probably need to do some tweaks here and there,because the read/write/speeds are not what they were initially- Don't know if that has something to do with Linux,the SSD, or what. 1 200 gig partition for Windows 10 . 1 200 gig partition for Ubuntu Studio and 10 gig Swap.The rest is 50 gigs or so for overprovisioning. That's all I know how to do for now!



#14 cat1092

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Posted 29 September 2016 - 01:59 AM

 

 

I'm not sure i understand how to place /home on a separate HDD during installation. May need some pointers there.

 

Paul, this is typically done at the time of install of the OS........however, you can reuse an already existing /home partition on a new install. Be sure to select that partition as /home, though do not place a check in the Format box! You can even move it over with GParted after deleting the other Linux partitions, leaving yourself Linux /home & Windows Data partitions (or any other you may wish to add). If by chance you were cramped for space on /home, you can make the partition larger with GParted, using a Live install DVD or USB stick. 

 

/home is typically for storage while the root partition does the work. 

 

Glad that you found a solution & yes, EasyBCD is a great tool to have! :)

 

Otherwise NeoSmart Technologies wouldn't have placed all of this work on the project, even launching version 2.3 for W10. However, I don't believe this would work if a GPT install, tried once on my ASrock AMD build in UEFI mode, didn't work. Plus I wasn't keen on keeping W10 on that PC anyway, though gave myself a license for the 'lifetime of the device' to reinstall in trying it out, just to make sure that Microsoft doesn't scr*w me, created a drive image with Macrium Reflect before restoring the W7 one. 

 

Good Luck, and should you wish to reinstall your Linux OS's, return to this Topic where everything's here, and we can guide you better with the info you provided, w/out you starting all over again. :)

 

Cat


Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 


#15 paul88ks

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Posted 29 September 2016 - 02:35 AM

 

 

Paul, this is typically done at the time of install of the OS........however, you can reuse an already existing /home partition on a new install. Be sure to select that partition as /home, though do not place a check in the Format box! You can even move it over with GParted after deleting the other Linux partitions, leaving yourself Linux /home & Windows Data partitions (or any other you may wish to add). If by chance you were cramped for space on /home, you can make the partition larger with GParted, using a Live install DVD or USB stick.

I understand the concept.So,in addition to the Linux partition,and the Swap Partition,I make a /Home partition,that is interchangeable with ALL my Linux installs? Typically,how large,or small would a /home partition be?

 

Also,what is the purpose or advantage to a /home partition?What do you put in a /home partition? i know it is a subdirectory of /root.


Edited by paul88ks, 29 September 2016 - 02:37 AM.





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