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New build using some old parts


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#1 Trikein

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 03:31 PM

Time has come to bite the bullet and build another desktop after my last one died. 3 main issues were; a bad HDD, couple bad SATA ports on the motherboard, and the pump CPU cooler stopped working. Looking to do new build with new motherboard, using as many parts from the old build as possible for cost savings. My price point is 400$. Here are a list of parts I think I can use;

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I plan to use the PC for gaming, troubleshooting various technical forums (dual boot for safety?), web browsing/streaming and later might try hosting a website to practice how. The 3 main things I feel I need is a new motherboard, CPU and SDD. I may need a new CPU cooler if I can't get it to work or they don't make a bracket for my needs. I may also get new RAM if OC to motherboard defaults isn't ideal. My questions are:

 

1. Intel vs AM- IMO Intel is capable of better performance, which makes me want to use it, but is AMD better for my pricepoint? More bang for buck? Intel user reviews are hard to ignore.

 

2. 1150 vs 1151 - If I use Intel, should I buy a board for 1151 socket and wait for those CPUs to come down in price? Or will 1151 always be aimed price wise at enthusiast? Will 1150 be around for a while?

 

3. How to SSD - I assume PCI-e is out of my price point, but what is best controller for SATA SSD? Samsung looks like best value, but reviews say short life span. Anyone have suggested reading on current SSD memory tech?

 

4. Damn Fan - The central fan creates a lot of noise and vibration, which leads to more case noise, and is a pain to clean. Anyone know of any good case mods to take the central duct out without losing case thermal dynamics?

 



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#2 Drillingmachine

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 03:24 AM

1. Because DDR3, AMD is better choice as Intel's DDR3 platforms (LGA1150 and older) are obsolete. All user reviews (applies to other than CPU's too) are usually made by fanboys. Majority of users won't notice any difference between AMD and Intel CPU.

If not planning to overclock, mid end AM3+ board + FX-8320e for $200 is very good deal for 8 thread CPU. Upgrade later with DDR4.

2. Intel 115X CPU prices start high and stay high. Like this 4 year old part https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B007SZ0E1K/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

Considering that LGA1155 has already almost completely disappeared (launched 5 years ago), hard to expect LGA1150 would be around for long.

3. No suggested reading as many articles are too biased, like that one http://www.anandtech.com/show/7173/samsung-ssd-840-evo-review-120gb-250gb-500gb-750gb-1tb-models-tested/

Not surprising what happened http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Editorial/Samsung-840-840-EVO-susceptible-flash-read-speed-degradation-over-time

Lesson: stay with MLC drives like Crucial BX100/MX200 or Sandisk MLC models.

4. No idea about that one.

#3 Trikein

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 09:58 PM

1. Can you explain why you think AMD is better for DDR3? Wont any board I get for DDR3 be 240pin and require a board upgrade for 288pin? Compare AMD ASUS 970 to Intel ASUS Z97-E. I see prices on FX-8320e 160$ while Intel i5-4590 is 200$. Do the 8 cores do much in gaming? Can't it hurt?

 

2. Mid range AMD is around low price range Intel in my shopping. AMD gets you more cores and and on chip physics, Intel gets you higher CPU speeds and Turbo boost. I do save money with AMD, but I would spend that or more on a needed bracket for my H100i. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

3. Thank you. I have been reading Crucial was good so that confirms. I had one for my first SSD. How do you feel about Intel?

 

4. Yeaaaaa... right? Can't put a filter on it but hard to clean. When it gets dirty, it gets loud and new liquid cool GPU make it pointless. One day I will get a Corsair case. <3 Their wire management. 

 

Thanks for input!  :cherry:



#4 Drillingmachine

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 06:04 AM

1. Can you explain why you think AMD is better for DDR3? Wont any board I get for DDR3 be 240pin and require a board upgrade for 288pin? Compare AMD ASUS 970 to Intel ASUS Z97-E. I see prices on FX-8320e 160$ while Intel i5-4590 is 200$. Do the 8 cores do much in gaming? Can't it hurt?

 

2. Mid range AMD is around low price range Intel in my shopping. AMD gets you more cores and and on chip physics, Intel gets you higher CPU speeds and Turbo boost. I do save money with AMD, but I would spend that or more on a needed bracket for my H100i. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

3. Thank you. I have been reading Crucial was good so that confirms. I had one for my first SSD. How do you feel about Intel?

 

4. Yeaaaaa... right? Can't put a filter on it but hard to clean. When it gets dirty, it gets loud and new liquid cool GPU make it pointless. One day I will get a Corsair case. <3 Their wire management. 

 

Thanks for input!  :cherry:

 

1. General rule: CPUs last longer than motherboards. Meaning that while there are good used CPUs available, usable motherboards have shortage.

Another general rule: always buy newest Intel socket as older socket motherboards disappear quickly, just look what happened to LGA1155. So if buying Intel, buy LGA1151.

 

I see FX-8320e @ $118.99 http://pcpartpicker.com/product/kfrcCJ/amd-cpu-fd832ewmhkbox

 

I don't recommend so expensive motherboard either, more basic AMD970 motherboard is OK.

 

It makes sense to have 8 cores for gaming. Benchmarks do not reflect real life: no internet connection, no background programs, failed attempts are ignored. To put it another way: one background program crashes, single CPU usage to 100%. What happens while gaming? Dual core: game runs very poorly. Dual core+HT: easy to notice something is wrong on background. Quad core: game slows down a little but still noticeably. Octa core: nothing happened? Double that with svchost.exe and WmiPrvSE.exe or even triple and add trustedinstaller.exe and you got the point. Octa core makes computer almost immune to background tasks. Something you won't see on benchmarks.

 

There are no LGA1151 board for DDR3 memory, only some for DDR3L.

 

2. I already corrected prices. Not sure if you need new bracket (included when you bought it??) but it seem to cost only $7.99 http://www.corsair.com/en/hydro-series-h80i-h100i-amd-mounting-bracket-kit

 

3. That Intel is way too expensive.

 

4. Case upgrade seem wise then.

 

Generally I suggest doing small upgrade now and much better later.



#5 Captain_Chicken

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 07:34 AM

 

 

It makes sense to have 8 cores for gaming.

Actually, the Piledriver architecture is such that there are 8 cores that have 4 floating point units. Plus, these CPUs run on an ancient 32NM that is way obsolete. The only reason LGA 115X boards don't hang around long is newer, better technologies like DDR4 came to replace them.   


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#6 Drillingmachine

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 07:51 AM

It makes sense to have 8 cores for gaming.

Actually, the Piledriver architecture is such that there are 8 cores that have 4 floating point units. Plus, these CPUs run on an ancient 32NM that is way obsolete. The only reason LGA 115X boards don't hang around long is newer, better technologies like DDR4 came to replace them.


8 cores with 4 floating point units make sense as about 90% of all code is interger. That 32nm SOI process may be old but it's much better than 28nm bulk still used on GPU's (R9 series, GTX 900 series etc). New technologies are not only reason as largest difference between LGA1156 and LGA1155 was one pin less on socket. Biggest difference between LGA1155 and LGA1150 was totally useless "integrated voltage regulator". Useless as it actually didn't make motherboards cheaper and totally as it was scrapped on Skylake. Reason why Intel floods market with different socket are:

- People need to buy new motherboard = more chipset sales
- No motherboards available for CPU's = buy new CPU and buy new motherboard

#7 Trikein

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 01:33 PM

Ok, so now I have to start learning more about AMD. My geeky OCD side still "feels" like Intel is better, but maybe that is perception that more $ means better. A couple questions:

 

1. Why do most Intel motherboards in the 80-150$ range have on-board graphics while AMD (in that price range) don't? I am used to AMD being onymous with integrated graphics so this confused me. Did something change? Or does AMD just have a lower price point so the 80-150$ boards are focused on system builds who would have separate GPUs? Am I missing something?

 

2. Anyone have suggestions on specific SSD? The BX100 is nice, but I can't find it in a ~400GB range. Only 250 and 1TB. My last SSD was a Mushkin and I loved it. Are they still any good? Anything really good coming out soon I should wait for?

 

3. How much performance increase do you see in DDR3 vs DDR4? Is it just faster and bigger or does it work inherently differently? Or is it false bottleneck like SATAIII 6gb/s was? I don't want to be cut by cutting edge.  :grinner:

 

4. Anyone have any experience with the I/O on Silverstone TJ09 cases? I could never get the front audio to work. I think the harness may have been wired wrong. Would like to get it working with new build.


Edited by Trikein, 22 August 2016 - 01:34 PM.


#8 Drillingmachine

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 02:10 PM

Ok, so now I have to start learning more about AMD. My geeky OCD side still "feels" like Intel is better, but maybe that is perception that more $ means better. A couple questions:

 

1. Why do most Intel motherboards in the 80-150$ range have on-board graphics while AMD (in that price range) don't? I am used to AMD being onymous with integrated graphics so this confused me. Did something change? Or does AMD just have a lower price point so the 80-150$ boards are focused on system builds who would have separate GPUs? Am I missing something?

 

2. Anyone have suggestions on specific SSD? The BX100 is nice, but I can't find it in a ~400GB range. Only 250 and 1TB. My last SSD was a Mushkin and I loved it. Are they still any good? Anything really good coming out soon I should wait for?

 

3. How much performance increase do you see in DDR3 vs DDR4? Is it just faster and bigger or does it work inherently differently? Or is it false bottleneck like SATAIII 6gb/s was? I don't want to be cut by cutting edge.  :grinner:

 

4. Anyone have any experience with the I/O on Silverstone TJ09 cases? I could never get the front audio to work. I think the harness may have been wired wrong. Would like to get it working with new build.

 

1. Intel offers bad integrated graphics on LGA115x platforms. AMD offers much better integrated graphics for FM2+. There are some quote poor (and were better) boards for AM3+ with integrated graphics. LGA115X and FM2+ platforms have graphics on CPU, AM3+ has on motherboard.

 

2. Most SSD's are either 250GB or 500GB range. MX200 500 GB is good choice too. Nothing special coming for SATA SSD's any more. They are maxed out and only way is down.

 

3. Performance increase is generally negligible. With 6/8 core CPU's there can be some difference. You can compare LGA1151 and LGA1150 to get good idea.

 

4. No experience from that.



#9 Trikein

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 03:33 PM

Thanks again for input!

 

1. Does that mean every Intel motherboard with a CPU that can do graphics will have graphics on board? My thoughts are on-board graphics take away from other hardware I would be using. I prefer the USB layout that can be done when you don't need space on the I/O for DVI/HDMI/DP/etc. Am I being too particular?

 

2. Do you think 250GB is enough for a Windows 7, large media editing program and 2 games? Would a little bit older 500GB SSD be better then a newer 250GB SSD? I feel the OS is going to bottleneck transfer speeds way beyond some of the read/writes speeds listed, so maybe older larger SSD is better?

 

3. I wish DDR3 memory could fit into a DDR4 slot like a PCI-e can fit into a PCI. Unless I factor in new memory into the budget I am limited to 1150 or AM3+. Which do you think has more staying power? 

 

I have been thinking about budget, and think it should be split 155$ motherboard 125$ CPU 120$ SSD. I want to shave about 20$ off something for miscellaneous costs like shipping and CPU cooler bracket but can't figure where. Also, am I missing any parts?



#10 Drillingmachine

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 04:05 PM

Thanks again for input!

 

1. Does that mean every Intel motherboard with a CPU that can do graphics will have graphics on board? My thoughts are on-board graphics take away from other hardware I would be using. I prefer the USB layout that can be done when you don't need space on the I/O for DVI/HDMI/DP/etc. Am I being too particular?

 

2. Do you think 250GB is enough for a Windows 7, large media editing program and 2 games? Would a little bit older 500GB SSD be better then a newer 250GB SSD? I feel the OS is going to bottleneck transfer speeds way beyond some of the read/writes speeds listed, so maybe older larger SSD is better?

 

3. I wish DDR3 memory could fit into a DDR4 slot like a PCI-e can fit into a PCI. Unless I factor in new memory into the budget I am limited to 1150 or AM3+. Which do you think has more staying power? 

 

I have been thinking about budget, and think it should be split 155$ motherboard 125$ CPU 120$ SSD. I want to shave about 20$ off something for miscellaneous costs like shipping and CPU cooler bracket but can't figure where. Also, am I missing any parts?

 

1. Practically yes. Some older chipsets did not support integrated graphics. If there's discrete GPU, then on board is not used.

 

2. Windows takes about 60 gigs, so there's room for couple of games too. I see no reason to go with older SSD as they are not much cheaper.

 

3. LGA1150 is EOL already. AM3+ will be soon. As you are essentially buying obsolete or soon obsolete platform, I recommend cheaper one, replace later with new tech.

 

I suggest $120 CPU and $90-100 to motherboard. I don't see any parts missing.



#11 DJBPace07

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 08:54 AM

1.  The graphics are nowadays on the CPU itself.  It's rare to find a modern motherboard with the GPU chip on the board.  Motherboards having the GPU chip integrated tend to be older.  I don't know if AMD's Zen will have the integrated graphics or if they will require an add-in card.

 

2.  SSD's are great with load times.  Just how old is your SSD?  I use a 500GB SSD for games and the speed with loading is certainly noticeable.  The drive I have is the Crucial MX200 2.5" 500GB.

 

3.  AM3+ is going to be EOL once AMD's Zen processors are out.  Those new processors will use the AM4 socket.  The socket will is backwards compatible with AM3+ coolers, but I don't know if they are backwards compatible with the AM3+ CPU's.


3939.png

 


#12 Drillingmachine

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 01:41 PM

1.  The graphics are nowadays on the CPU itself.  It's rare to find a modern motherboard with the GPU chip on the board.  Motherboards having the GPU chip integrated tend to be older.  I don't know if AMD's Zen will have the integrated graphics or if they will require an add-in card.

 

2.  SSD's are great with load times.  Just how old is your SSD?  I use a 500GB SSD for games and the speed with loading is certainly noticeable.  The drive I have is the Crucial MX200 2.5" 500GB.

 

3.  AM3+ is going to be EOL once AMD's Zen processors are out.  Those new processors will use the AM4 socket.  The socket will is backwards compatible with AM3+ coolers, but I don't know if they are backwards compatible with the AM3+ CPU's.

 

1. First Zen models have no integrated graphics, 2017 APU's have.

 

3. AM4 is backwards compatible is cooler uses AM3+ mounting bracket. But if it requires backplate, then coolers are NOT backwards compatible (without new backplate). AM4 is not compatible with AM3+ on CPU side.






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