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Random freeze requiring reboot


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#1 Ojustaboo

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 05:40 AM

Hi all please bear with me and I'll explain where I've got to.

 

Am getting random hangs, usually when gaming, can go 3 or 4 days without one, then can have two within an hour.

But Yesterday for example, it hung when I was simply browsing a txt file.

 

Most of the time it's hung, I have had to hit the reset button. However, twice it came up with the error

 

Clock_Watchdog_timeout_error and started to make a dmp file.

 

The last time this happened I was in an online group battle with friends, and stupidly hit the reset button to speed things up but I see there is a memory.dmp dated 3rd August  that's 1.16GB, whether that was the one I interrupted, or whether that's the complete one, I'm sorry, can't remember.

 

I was overclocking the Intel Core i7 3820 a2011  to 4676 MHz (using Asus's MB software), but am now running on default BIOS settings and still having the same problem.

 

I have a Antec 1200 case which has 3 fans in the front, 2 on the back and a huge one at the top, all regularly cleaned, and the CPU has 

an "Archon SB-E X2 CPU Cooler" on it.

 

I have AID64 and it displays temps etc on my second monitor, the temps are all well within limit, I wrote them down last time it hung while the processor was overclocked,

 

CPU 38C

Core #1 39C

Core #2 26C

Core #3 40C

Core #4 36C

CPU utilisation 3%

Mem utilisation 11%

Used Memory 3555 MB

Free Memory  29155 MB

MB Temp 26C

System SSD 26C

Programs SSD 25C

Music HD 28C

Video HD 26C

GPU Diode 36C

CPU Fan1 709 RMP

CPU Fan 2 680 RPM

GPU Fan 1710 RPM

 

I created a boot usb and ran Memtest86 for about 16 hrs, all past fine  (well test 13, Hammer test gave error messages, but according to the web this is fine)

 

I've downloaded intel processor diagnostics and run it numerous times both when my PC was overclocked and now it isn't, all passed fine

 

To totally eliminate the RAM, I removed 16GB and it still hung

I swapped the 16GB over with the 16GB I removed, it still hung (again can go two or three days sometimes, and PC is used for about 12 hrs a day)

 

When I originally installed Windows 10 64 pro (clean install) once it was installed and MS office and a few other bits of software I always use, I made a true image backup.

 

I have restored this backup (overwriting my C and D drives) re-downloaded all my games, used an older version of Nvidia driver (353.62)  that I know was working totally fine and it's still hanging. 

 

Also tried a GTX 970 to eliminate the GPU and still random hangs

 

And I'm stumped. 

 

The only thing I'm always doing at the time it hangs, is I'm moving my mouse

 

I suspect the CPU or the power supply but don't want to buy one and find it's the other :)

 

I've attached the files required

 

Only 16GB RAM currently installed, not bothered putting the other 16GB back in yet.

 

The two devices without drivers are my Ilok and Steinberg key, two licensing dongles for my music software which I haven't re-installed since reimaging (the drivers were both installed originally when it started hanging)

 

any suggestions greatly received.

 

Thanks

 

Edit: The BIOS is P9X79 BIOS 4801 dated 2014 and is the newest available BIOS

I was keeping the Nvidia drivers up to date always running the latest one, but reverted to 353.62 as I ran that for a while and know there's no issues with it.

Have run SSD Like and both SSDs are totally fine.

Have run full  error checking on the HDs using HD Tune, all sectors passed on both drives

Have verify turned on with the suggested options, been for about 3 hrs so far, no problems.

 

If it helps, it hung twice yesterday (10th August), once around 21:05 and again at around 21:43

 

 

· OS - Windows 10 Pro
· x64 
· Clean install
· Free upgrade but did clean install after first upgrading
· Age of system (hardware):  April 2013  (mb, CPU, RAM) , Nov 2012 GPU, PSU older than 2011 but cant remember
·  re-imaged a couple of weeks ago
 
· CPU: Intel Core i7 3820 a2011 
· Video Card: 4GB Nvidia GeForce GTX 670
· MotherBoard : Asus P9X79 Socket 2011 ATX Motherboard
· Power Supply: Tagan TG700-U25 700W ATX2.0 Dual Engine Silent sli Power Supply
 
· System Manufacturer: Self built
· Exact model number: Self built
 
· Desktop

 

Attached File  SysnativeFileCollectionApp.zip   734.57KB   3 downloads

Attached File  report.zip   185.11KB   2 downloads

Attached File  MTB.txt   34.13KB   1 downloads


Edited by Ojustaboo, 11 August 2016 - 03:52 PM.


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#2 Ojustaboo

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 05:44 AM

Had Driver Verifier running for 24 hr so far, no problems reported.

 

As I've realised my power supply is about 10 years old, just ordered a new one as I hear they can deteriorate over time.  So it will soon be a 750W Corsair HX750i, 80 PLUS Platinum, Full Modular



#3 usasma

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 05:08 PM

See this link for a description of the row hammer test:  http://www.memtest86.com/technical.htm#description

Other discussion here:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Row_hammer

Please note that it doesn't report on the first set of row hammers tested, it waits for the results of the 2nd set.

 

2 problems here:

- security exploits

- errors caused in different rows due to the hammering

 

I look at MemTest errors this way:

- if you have an error when working on your checkbook, is it in the pennies column, or is it in the thousands of dollars column?

- if it's in the pennies column, it's probably OK to ignore it.

- if it's in the thousands of dollars column, it's not safe to ignore.

 

So, I put this to you - are these errors going to be in pennies column or in the thousands of dollars column?

As you can't tell which, prudence dictates getting new RAM just in case it's in the thousands of dollars column.

 

Finally, it appears that you have Corsair RAM.  Most of that comes with a lifetime warranty.
I'd suggest contacting them for a replacement.

 

Don't assume anything when fixing parts - you'll always end up spending too much!

FWIW - PSU's give out much more often than CPU's (and are even more likely because you ran the CPU diagnostics).
Note that this does not say it's the PSU. - you've done nothing to test the PSU.  Still, you've ordered one, so that point is moot now.

 

Please remove the iLock and eLicenser devices from the system

I wouldn't put them back in until you're ready to install their software (and wouldn't do it while troubleshooting).

 

Wonder about your BIOS.  Why haven't they released one recently?  Was it so perfect that they didn't need to update it for W10 (build 10240), the Fall Update (build 10586), or the Anniversary Update (buld 14393)?

I have to wonder about these things - and also wonder if it means that they don't intend to support W10 with this hardware?

 

Although you appear to have a reasonable number of Windows Update hotfixes for this version of your OS, please double check for any new Windows Updates.  It only takes one update to cause a problem, so it's essential that you have all of them.  The actual number is not important.  Rather it's important that you checked manually, installed any available updates, and didn't experience any errors when checking or updating.

Many cnmsm9D.dll errors - likely a Canon printer file.

Please download and install a fresh copy of the Canon printer software

 

Finally, wait until the next time that you freeze and have to power down to shut the system off.
Then restart and immediately generate this report:

 

Please do the following:
- open Event Viewer (run eventvwr.msc from the "Run" dialog)
- expand the Custom Views category (left click on the > next to the words "Custom Views")
- right click on the "Administrative Events" heading
- select "Save all Events in Custom View as..."
- save the file as Admin.evtx
- zip up the file (right click on it, select "Send to", select "Compressed (zipped) folder")
- upload it with your next post (if it's too big, then upload it to a free file-hosting service and post a link here).

FYI - If we're looking for Event ID 41 errors (unexplained shutdowns), there's more info on that here:  http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2028504

While waiting for a reply, please monitor your temps with this free utility:  http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

 


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#4 Ojustaboo

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 08:01 AM

Many many thanks

 

It's a Cannon network printer, not connected to my PC and unfortunately, under windows 10, they say

 

This product is not supported with the operating system selected and no drivers will be made available"

 

but it prints and scans fine.  Will re-download and uninstall-re-install but it's the same version I have.

 

 

I'm annoyed at Asus for not providing newer BIOS but it is listed under the following section of their web site

 

"The following motherboards offer Windows 10 driver for OS upgrade and compatible installation"

 

Also I've been running Windows 10 on it since a few days after it was officially released, and it's only been the past few weeks I've started having the hangs.

 

 

 

I made a mistake when I said error 13 gave error messages, it passed fine (errors 0) but gave the following message each pass

 

[Note} RAM may be vulnerable to high frequency row hammer bit flips.

 

I will contact Corsair and see what they say.

 

 

Driver Verify ran for 45 hrs fine, before I stopped it.

 

Will send the requested event log details next time it hangs

 

Again many thanks for your time etc


Edited by Ojustaboo, 13 August 2016 - 08:01 AM.


#5 usasma

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 08:48 AM

The 'not supported" thing covers them when the unexpected happens.

The only "test" for the printer that I can think of is to uninstall it - then see if that helps.

Unfortunately, you may have difficulty re-installing it, so the choice is yours.

 

As for the BIOS - there comes a time when the manufacturer has to stop supporting the board.  This makes room for them to develop new products and develop supported BIOS/UEFI/drivers for them.

The question you have to ask yourself is "Is there a compatibility problem with the current BIOS?"  Because, if there is, then your only "fix" would be to replace the motherboard.

 

I'd heard about the row hammer errors a lot recently, so I decided to look it up (that's why there's a lot of detail - it's from my research).

If it passed without error - then there's likely not a problem.

 

The problem with compatibility errors is that they're not always evident.

And that they change with each change to your system (either changes in the settings, or updates).

For example, for years an OEM would load both AMD and Intel processor drivers in every computer that they sold.  There was never a problem with this - yet Microsoft had no control over it.

Then one day Microsoft issued a patch that caused the drivers to conflict - and the systems immediately started to BSOD.

Both the OEM and Microsoft jumped into it and quickly issued patches to prevent that from happening (but that didn't fix the problem of using 2 different processor drivers on a system with only the one processor)

Unfortunately, the "test" for compatibility is to revert to the old OS and test it there - but that's usually a painful scenario that most people want to avoid.


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#6 Ojustaboo

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 03:10 PM

Many thanks

 

Power supply turned up today, tomorrow will fit, will replace thermal paste on CPU while I'm taking it apart, and will see how I get on

 

really appreciate your time


Edited by Ojustaboo, 13 August 2016 - 03:10 PM.


#7 Ojustaboo

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 04:59 PM

If it still hangs, I'll upload the event log, but I can easily put 8.1 back on as I've got an image backup of my win10 install at various stages,

 

Win 10 installed and activated no software,  July 2015

Win 10 installed along with Adobe CS4 and MS office July 2015

Win 10 installed along with Adobe 4 and MS office and all updates up to 11th may 2016

 

What I tend to do if I ever have severe problems is restore the Win10, CS4, MSoffice, update it and then make a new backup (which is what I did this time around when it started hanging)

 

If I need to reflash for any other reason I would reflash with the newest one

 

When I did my original win 10 install, the documents, download, video, pics etc directories were all moved to another drive that isn't included in the flash, hence if I reflash, I've not lost any of my data and all is pointing to the correct place.

 

That being the case, installing 8.1 to test it wont really be a problem as if that's not the problem, I can reflash to win10 and just download my games again (have fibre internet)

hence can easily return to that if the MB isn't the problem.

 

At least it will eliminate it as the cause.

 

if it is, I can live with 8.1 anyway, so no big deal, if it isn't, then not a lot left to suspect except for the CPU

 

I uninstalled all the Cannon stuff, the driver installed fine and there's newer versions of the scanner and cannon network tool software which I've put on.

 

Hopefully the PSU will fix it.

 

Again many thanks for your time






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