Jump to content


 


Register a free account to unlock additional features at BleepingComputer.com
Welcome to BleepingComputer, a free community where people like yourself come together to discuss and learn how to use their computers. Using the site is easy and fun. As a guest, you can browse and view the various discussions in the forums, but can not create a new topic or reply to an existing one unless you are logged in. Other benefits of registering an account are subscribing to topics and forums, creating a blog, and having no ads shown anywhere on the site.


Click here to Register a free account now! or read our Welcome Guide to learn how to use this site.

Photo

Building a Desktop for Deep Learning


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1 Cryptvill

Cryptvill

  • Members
  • 45 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:08:46 PM

Posted 07 August 2016 - 11:11 AM

Greetings all!

 

I posted on these forums nearly eight years ago and received help on a custom built desktop that has been fabulous over the period of time and still works well to this date.

 

The previous thread can be found here: http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/180461/big-newb-buying-a-gaming-comp/

 

Eight years is quite a long time and I am now in the market to build my own desktop. 

 

I used this link: http://techreport.com/review/30460/the-tech-report-system-guide-august-2016-edition

 

My use for the computer is primarily educational purposes (to get through 2 more years of undergraduate mathematics and physics, as well as some intense calculation based research) and for further use in graduate studies. I do not see this desktop being used for gaming, but having that option for future use isn't a bad idea.

 

Other important information: I need to be able to have dual-monitor output. I've never done this before, so I have to make sure I build a desktop capable of dual-monitor setup. Also, I am going to be using a linux based operating system.

 

My First Build

 

**Prices are current to August 2016, hoping to get slightly better prices on many of the items**

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K ($360.00)

              OR Intel Core i5-6600K ($245.00)

MOBO: MSI Z170-A Pro ($115.00)

MEMORY: G Skill Ripjaws V 32GB ($113.00)

GPU: Sapphire Radeon RX 480 4GB ($200.00)

              OR EVGA GeForce GTX 950 ($130.00) 

Memory (SSD): Samsung 850 EVO 500GB ($160.00)

Optical Drive: ASUS DRW ($20.00)

Case: Some case ($60.00)

PSU: EVGA Supernova G2 550W ($90.00)

Coolers: CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO ($30.00)

 

Optional: Soundcard Asus Xonar DSX ($54.00)

 

Overall, that is a $1100.00 build, roughly, depending on what options I take.

 

Most notably, the graphics card situation is likely to change. I realize that there are a new set of graphics cards on the market for the $200.00 sweet spot range of price performance. I'm looking to 'cash in' on this part and go for the Sapphire Radeon 480 card. I think this would give me a beastly system compared to what I had in mind initially of not getting any remarkable GPU. 

 

Also, I would like to go for the future-proof i7-6700K compared to i5-6600k even tho there is a +$100 price difference.

 

 

What do we think of this build? 

 

Thank you for any help.

 



BC AdBot (Login to Remove)

 


#2 Drillingmachine

Drillingmachine

  • Members
  • 2,350 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:03:46 AM

Posted 07 August 2016 - 02:02 PM

CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K ($360.00) OR Intel Core i5-6600K ($245.00)

 

If you ask me, every LGA1151 CPU is crap as they run very hot because Intel decided not to solder heat spreader over CPU but use "tooth paste" instead. This is so called Intel high quality.

 

Also paying $360 for quad core CPU is waste. Alternative: i7-5820K generally faster, much more future proof, has soldered heat spreader and is only about 20 dollars more expensive.

 

Because you are going to use Linux, even AMD FX-8320 is not bad choice.

 

MOBO: MSI Z170-A Pro ($115.00)

 

If CPU is i7-5820K, then motherboard must be LGA2011-3

 

AMD board must be AM3+.

 

MEMORY: G Skill Ripjaws V 32GB ($113.00)

 

OK

 

GPU: Sapphire Radeon RX 480 4GB ($200.00) OR EVGA GeForce GTX 950 ($130.00)

 

I recommend RX 480.

 

Memory (SSD): Samsung 850 EVO 500GB ($160.00)

 

Being TLC drive, that's hugely expensive. In case you don't know, Samsung have not so good record with TLC drives, both 840 and 840 Evo have bad problems, those problems are still NOT fixed as fixing is not possible  http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Editorial/Samsung-840-840-EVO-susceptible-flash-read-speed-degradation-over-time

 

For example Crucial MX200 is better choice IMO.

 

Optical Drive: ASUS DRW ($20.00)

Case: Some case ($60.00)

 

Not much to say about these.

 

PSU: EVGA Supernova G2 550W ($90.00)

 

Good choice.

 

Coolers: CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO ($30.00)

 

OK



#3 Cryptvill

Cryptvill
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 45 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:08:46 PM

Posted 07 August 2016 - 02:12 PM

DrillingMachine, thank you for your knowledge on this issue. I greatly appreciate it.

 

I have one question based on CPU. 

 

I see for $20 more I can get the better i7-5820k, that's an awesome suggestion.

 

Because you are going to use Linux, even AMD FX-8320 is not bad choice.

 

Why is this so? Is it 'better' for Linux or is the other CPU just not needed?



#4 Drillingmachine

Drillingmachine

  • Members
  • 2,350 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:03:46 AM

Posted 07 August 2016 - 03:31 PM

i7-5820K also requires different motherboard, LGA2011-3 motherboards are more expensive than LGA1151 motherboard. Still, price difference is worth it.
 
 

 

Because you are going to use Linux, even AMD FX-8320 is not bad choice.

 
Why is this so? Is it 'better' for Linux or is the other CPU just not needed?

 

On Linux many programs can be compiled and that makes FX CPU's bit better than they are on Windows.
 

FX-83x0 is much better for multitasking than any LGA1151 CPU if you ask me. i7-5820K is better but also much more expensive. FX-8320e is bit slower than FX-8320/8350 but also cheaper.

 

Price comparison:

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD FX-8320E 3.2GHz 8-Core Processor  ($118.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Asus M5A97 R2.0 ATX AM3+ Motherboard  ($71.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory  ($126.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $317.96
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-08-07 16:21 EDT-0400

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD FX-8320 3.5GHz 8-Core Processor  ($138.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Asus M5A97 R2.0 ATX AM3+ Motherboard  ($71.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory  ($126.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $337.96
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-08-07 16:22 EDT-0400

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K 3.3GHz 6-Core Processor  ($369.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: MSI X99A SLI PLUS ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard  ($193.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($129.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $693.96
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-08-07 16:28 EDT-0400

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($342.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI Z170-A PRO ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($114.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($129.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $587.97
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-08-07 16:26 EDT-0400

 

Last option is way too expensive as $100 price difference does not justify worse CPU (vs i7-5820K). AMD setups are much cheaper and are much better than your current system. Choices.


Edited by Drillingmachine, 07 August 2016 - 03:31 PM.


#5 Cryptvill

Cryptvill
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 45 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:08:46 PM

Posted 08 August 2016 - 10:12 AM

DrillMachine, one thing I do not understand is why you would want an AMD over an Intel. Obviously, you are more experienced than me, but from the three or so sites that I've been reading the AMD processors are not even considered.

 

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html Shows a big difference when it comes to the intel processors and the AMD ones 

 

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/pc-build-guide/2/ quotes

"Only Intel processors make our guide. The reasons are no mystery. It’s a struggle to find a review published within the last five years that comes to anything better than a non-committal conclusion about an AMD processor. While its chips occasionally make sense in very specific scenarios – say you want eight cores, but also can’t spend more than $600 all-in — AMD hardware generally can’t compete, even on value, with Intel’s chips."

 

http://techreport.com/review/30460/the-tech-report-system-guide-august-2016-edition/2

 

"Let's keep this short and sweet. If you're building a new PC, you want an Intel CPU."

 

 

This leads me to think that I should get a Intel CPU. 



#6 Cryptvill

Cryptvill
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 45 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:08:46 PM

Posted 08 August 2016 - 12:43 PM

Latest build:

 
CASE: H440 Black + Green $120.00 
PSU: EVGA Supernova G2 550W $90.00
MOBO: ASUS X-99 A-II $230.00
CPU: Intel Core i7-6800k $440.00
RAM: G Skill ripjaws V 32 GB DDR4 $113.00
GPU: EVGA Gefore GTX 960 $180.00
SSD: Crucial MX300 525 GB $130.00
DVD Drive: ASUS DRW $20.00
CPU COOLER: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO $30.00
OS: Linux, free
 
TOTAL: $1353.00 
 
Optional: Soundcard Asus Xonar OSX $54.00
 
 
Some notes:
1. Big question on the GPU. Do I go with the new Radeon Rx 480 (supposed to be at price of $200.00) or a Nvidia GTX 960 for ~$180.00? Well, the Radeon RX 480 seems to perform better, but it is almost impossible to find online for the price of $200.00. It's going upwards of $300.00 which is not suitable for my needs. GTX 960 so far is the winner as it is easily accessible at the price I want for my GPU.
 
2. The Processor is the big money difference. I am debating between i7-6700k ($360.00) vs. i7-5820k ($390.00) vs. i7-6800k ($440.00). The i7-5820k seems to lose simply because the 6800k is a superior CPU for only $50 more. The notable thing here is that the i7-6700k uses a Z1ZO mobo while the i7-6800k and i7-5820k uses a x99 motherboard. I am highly interested in the future-proofing of the 6800k with x99, which is why my latest build chooses this. However, this is a major $$$ difference in $200.00+. The likely fact is that either computer will suit my needs. Needless to say, I would love the x99+6800k tho.
 
3. I can save some minimal money from the case as well. Currently the NZXT one is just a placeholder. I like the NZXT cases and for $120.00 I would happily buy a great case. I'd be interested in seeing some cases for around $40.00 tho, but I'm going to research this further later when I know what parts I want to fill it. 
 
 
Any opinions on my build and my 3 main comments? Any other suggestions? 
 
Thank you.


#7 Drillingmachine

Drillingmachine

  • Members
  • 2,350 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:03:46 AM

Posted 08 August 2016 - 01:27 PM

DrillMachine, one thing I do not understand is why you would want an AMD over an Intel. Obviously, you are more experienced than me, but from the three or so sites that I've been reading the AMD processors are not even considered.

 

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html Shows a big difference when it comes to the intel processors and the AMD ones 

 

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/pc-build-guide/2/ quotes

"Only Intel processors make our guide. The reasons are no mystery. It’s a struggle to find a review published within the last five years that comes to anything better than a non-committal conclusion about an AMD processor. While its chips occasionally make sense in very specific scenarios – say you want eight cores, but also can’t spend more than $600 all-in — AMD hardware generally can’t compete, even on value, with Intel’s chips."

 

http://techreport.com/review/30460/the-tech-report-system-guide-august-2016-edition/2

 

"Let's keep this short and sweet. If you're building a new PC, you want an Intel CPU."

 

 

This leads me to think that I should get a Intel CPU. 

 

Cpubenchmark.net was outdated years ago.

 

Digital trends and Tech report suggest it's OK for paying 125 dollars for dual core CPU :axe:  They need to lighten up a bit. Dual cores were outdated on 2010. That's six years ago.

 

And $360 for very low quality quad core CPU? :flamethrower:

 

Problem is that those sites have no idea what's real computer use. They run benchmarks with machines with clean Windows install, not connected to internet, no antivirus software... That's very far from real life use.

 

I consider myself heavy user. I have many software (including one game) that can utilize as many cores as available. I have almost always two virtual machines running. What I would need to make my computer faster?

 

1. Faster disk access, even NVME SSD's are not fast enough (as they are not as fast as ramdisk)

2. More CPU cores

3. Better suitable GPU for virtual machihes

...

X. Better CPU performance on single core.

 

Benchmarks may say that single thread performance is one and all. In real life it matters very little. So: want real life performance? Then forget benchmarks.

 

http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-reality-check-at-fx-gamexperience_1838

 

The next challenge given to gamers was two high-end systems that were both running AMD Radeon HD 7970 ‘Tahati’ DirectX 11 graphics cards running an Eyefinity display setup. The Intel system was powered by an Intel Core-i7 2700K ‘Sandy Bridge’ processor with an ASRock P67 Fatal1ty motherboard and 8GB of AMD DDR3 performance memory. The AMD system was powered by the FX-8150 ‘Bulldozer’ processor an ASRock 990FX Fatal1ty and the same 8GB of AMD DDR3 performance memory. The key to this demo was focused on processor performance and not graphics performance. The Intel Core i7-2700K retails for $369.99 and the AMD FX-8150 retails for $269.99, so the question here was if gamers could tell a difference between the systems.

Answer for question: AMD was considered better.

 

In conclusion: I know these things much better than any of those sites as their opinions are based on mostly useless benchmarks.

 

So your latest build:

 

1. RX 480 is much better and GTX960 is quite impossible to recommend as Nvidia's driver support for older cards is poor. Even on Linux AMD tend to have better support nowadays. However, as good GPU's cost a lot right now, how about buying very low end one now and switch later?

 

2. i7-6700K is just too expensive. In my examples price difference is more like $100 for 5820K. 6800K for $50 more is quite good deal. So it's choice between 5820K and 6800K.

 

3. Purpose of case is mostly to keep parts in cover and provide adequate cooling. So you can save at least $60 choosing cheaper case.

 

For parts:

 

CASE: H440 Black + Green $120.00
PSU: EVGA Supernova G2 550W $90.00
MOBO: ASUS X-99 A-II $230.00
CPU: Intel Core i7-6800k $440.00
RAM: G Skill ripjaws V 32 GB DDR4 $113.00
GPU: EVGA Gefore GTX 960 $180.00
SSD: Crucial MX300 525 GB $130.00
DVD Drive: ASUS DRW $20.00
CPU COOLER: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO $30.00

 

 
Case: Discussed above
PSU: OK
MOBO: Discussed above
CPU: Discussed above
RAM: OK
GPU: Discussed above
DVD: OK
CPU cooler: have something better
SSD: BX300 is using TLC NAND and so far TLC SSD's experiments have been quite catastrophic http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Editorial/Samsung-840-840-EVO-susceptible-flash-read-speed-degradation-over-time


#8 Cryptvill

Cryptvill
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 45 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:08:46 PM

Posted 08 August 2016 - 01:41 PM

Thanks for the great help. I appreciate your time!

 

 

Edit: NVM, post got deleted from quotes, will re-post when I have a chance.  


Edited by Cryptvill, 08 August 2016 - 01:42 PM.


#9 Cryptvill

Cryptvill
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 45 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:08:46 PM

Posted 09 August 2016 - 08:52 AM

CPU cooler: have something better

 

May I ask what CPU coolers you would suggest for this potential build? 



#10 Drillingmachine

Drillingmachine

  • Members
  • 2,350 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:03:46 AM

Posted 09 August 2016 - 09:05 AM

CPU cooler: have something better

 
May I ask what CPU coolers you would suggest for this potential build? 


Something more high end. There are many possibilities. Thermalright Macho direct is quite affordable. Macho Rev B even more heavy duty. Noctua have good coolers and excellent support but coolers somewhat expensive. Raijintek had cheap but effective coolers, like Ereboss.

Just make sure your case is wide enough.

#11 Cryptvill

Cryptvill
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 45 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:08:46 PM

Posted 09 August 2016 - 01:04 PM

Let's talk GPU's for a moment. 

 

I asked about the availability of Radeon Rx 480 at a local MicroCenter today and they had no information to give other than that it is likely rising in price and unavailable for the immediate future.

 

What specific graphics cards might I aim for? Let's say the max budget is $200.00, but I could wiggle out a little more for the *ideal* card. Let's take purpose out of the question for this issue. What GPU would you go for?



#12 Drillingmachine

Drillingmachine

  • Members
  • 2,350 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:03:46 AM

Posted 09 August 2016 - 01:17 PM

AMD R9 380 4GB cards are widely available for around $200.

#13 Cryptvill

Cryptvill
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 45 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:08:46 PM

Posted 10 August 2016 - 09:14 AM

Hey guys.

Im using this link: http://techreport.com/review/30460/the-tech-report-system-guide-august-2016-edition/3

And on the bottom it states:

"If you're building an X99 system, be sure to double up on any of the RAM kits above to reach the capacity you want. Haswell-E CPUs need four DIMMs to take full advantage of their quad-channel memory controllers."

Does this mean that I need multiple RAM Sticks if I plan on getting a hexcore CPU?

I was just going to get an i7-6800k with the G.Skill Ripjaws V 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4-2133. This would be 2 sticks of ram. Do I need 6 sticks of ram for the hexcore?

Thanks.



#14 Drillingmachine

Drillingmachine

  • Members
  • 2,350 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:03:46 AM

Posted 10 August 2016 - 10:43 AM

Hey guys.
Im using this link: http://techreport.com/review/30460/the-tech-report-system-guide-august-2016-edition/3
And on the bottom it states:
"If you're building an X99 system, be sure to double up on any of the RAM kits above to reach the capacity you want. Haswell-E CPUs need four DIMMs to take full advantage of their quad-channel memory controllers."
Does this mean that I need multiple RAM Sticks if I plan on getting a hexcore CPU?
I was just going to get an i7-6800k with the G.Skill Ripjaws V 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4-2133. This would be 2 sticks of ram. Do I need 6 sticks of ram for the hexcore?
Thanks.


No, maximum 4 has some effect but difference between dual and quad channel is neglible. Intel put quad channel memory just to make Some reason for LGA2011 socket. For example AMD is sticking with 2 memory channels on future 8 core Zen. Some benchmarks http://www.legitreviews.com/ddr3-memory-performance-analysis-on-intel-x79_1779/3

Remember that using DDR4, differences are much smaller than that test where DDR3 is used.

So I'd put 2 sticks as 16GB sticks are much more useful than 8 GB sticks.

Edited by Drillingmachine, 10 August 2016 - 10:43 AM.


#15 Cryptvill

Cryptvill
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 45 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:08:46 PM

Posted 10 August 2016 - 09:45 PM

Hey all,
 
I've been researching computer parts for a couple weeks now. This list reflects a more 'final decision' on what I am looking for. 
 
I want to note that this post is not about budget cutting or purpose of the build, but rather that compatibility of parts and any suggestions for possibly better parts for around the same $$$. If you have suggestions, feel free to comment! Most importantly, if you see something that is incompatible or perhaps I am not taking advantage of something, please let me know. 
 
Build:
MOBO  ::   ASUS x99 A-II      $235.00  [link](http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-X99-A2&c=CJ)
 
 
CASE  :: Fractal Design Define S  with window $80.00   [link](http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16811352055)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
_______________________________________________________
 
So this is my complete build for my 'realistic dream scenario'.
 
The only thing I skimped out on was the GPU as I chose a 750 Ti instead of an upper graphics card (or newer one). I choose this as I did not need the desktop to be super ready for extreme games, but simply to achieve greatness in everyday video editing and other applications.
 
What does everyone think about Crucial Mx300 vs. Crucial Mx200 SSD's? I've heard mixed reviews.
 
Will the dual monitor set up work with my chosen GPU? I believe it does.
 
I chose a fractal design case for ~$80.00 as it fits the in between from supergamer to boring/bland. Seems like a well made case.
 
Are my choices of items compatible? Are my choices of items 'good'?
 
**To Drillinmachine** Thank you for your help in this thread so far. This build reflects your opinions on the i7-6800k over the other processors I might have chosen. I think the cooler should be acceptable for my build. The memory issue I am still throwing in the air (2 sticks vs. 4, but I found the price to be fine for the current sticks I have here). I am leaning towards skimping out on the GPU as I don't think I'll really use a big time GPU for a few years. 
 
Thank you for any opinions. 





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users