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Raid setup question..


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#1 chrisarnt

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 10:13 AM

Ok.  So, I bought a Dell Precision laptop because it has dual drives. 

 

I have one SSD and one HDD installed. 

 

What I want to accomplish is that my SSD backs up to my HDD so if the SSD crashes I have a backup right there and can swap in. 

 

I installed Windows and all my software to my SSD , but did not set the bios for Raid prior to initial setup... 

Do I need to start over?

 

What Raid setting will accomplish this? 

 

Do I need special RAID drives?


Edited by hamluis, 05 August 2016 - 10:29 AM.
Moved from Win 7 to Backups/Imaging - Hamluis.


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#2 RolandJS

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 10:26 AM

Others will weigh in concerning RAID, I recommend you do not leave critical backups on any internal HD. Rather, you are probably going to better served restore-wise if you create a usb or dvd boot for restoration off of a trusted external media, be it DVDs, USB sticks, or my favorite -- two external platter-driven HDs.

"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee."  -- Ben Franklin revisited.

http://collegecafe.fr.yuku.com/forums/45/Computer-Technologies/

Backup, backup, backup! -- Lady Fitzgerald (w7forums)

Clone or Image often! Backup... -- RockE (WSL)


#3 Drillingmachine

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 03:40 PM

No RAID is suitable for that. Windows has Storage spaces that can do that. Use two way mirror.



#4 hamluis

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 05:12 PM

Personally...I don't think RAIDs are proper solutions to any problem for personal users...it makes sense in a business climate with servers...but (IMO) properly backing up your system so that it can easily be restored...appears to be a lot more fundamentally sound as an approach to preparing for disaster.

 

It sounds as if you have some guarantee of some sort...that your hard drive will never have problems, while your SSD will.  I think that stats from the past regarding hard drive failures...will point in a different direction.

 

FWIW

 

Louis



#5 RolandJS

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 10:43 PM

+1 Hamlius; tis better to have your backups on trusted & reliable external media - of your choice.  I recommend Macrium Reflect for your backup and restore operations.  However, there are many very good, reliable, free and pay-for backup/restore programs.


"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee."  -- Ben Franklin revisited.

http://collegecafe.fr.yuku.com/forums/45/Computer-Technologies/

Backup, backup, backup! -- Lady Fitzgerald (w7forums)

Clone or Image often! Backup... -- RockE (WSL)


#6 chrisarnt

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 03:26 AM

I don't really think the SSD will fail.  The first one I bought in 2013 is still working. 

 

I kind of just want to do it... Is that reason enough?  It is for me... 

 

I guess if it mirrors it would mirror any bugs, viruses or failures. 

 

If it backs up onto that drive too often it would also.. 

 

But can I use the second drive as a back up and have it only accessible by the scheduled back up program. ?



#7 Drillingmachine

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 05:59 AM

I guess if it mirrors it would mirror any bugs, viruses or failures. 

 

If it backs up onto that drive too often it would also.. 

 

But can I use the second drive as a back up and have it only accessible by the scheduled back up program. ?

 

It will mirror everything. (you can still use Storage spaces if you want)

 

It mirrors everything and real time. So if you screw something up, then backup is also screwed. RAID or Storage spaces is not backup.

 

Only accessible by scheduled backup program is hard to achieve as usually backup programs require drive to be accessible from Windows explorer and so it's accessible to virtually all programs. There might be exceptions, but not one comes in mind.



#8 RolandJS

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 09:24 AM

"...But can I use the second drive as a back up and have it only accessible by the scheduled back up program. ?"

Although, sure it can be done, I recommend not doing so.  By having the external HD only connected to the computer during backups and/or restore, you minimize, albeit not totally eliminate, the danger of "super-sized fries," a major surge or something horribly going wrong within the motherboard and/or within software operations could bring down both your internal and external HDs.  Long ago, I used to have "twin [internal HD] towers" in my 486DX and my Pentium MMX III -- with crisscross backups.  Well, eventually, I moved to external HD backups to minimize my exposure to viri or malware or hardware/software goWrongs.


"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee."  -- Ben Franklin revisited.

http://collegecafe.fr.yuku.com/forums/45/Computer-Technologies/

Backup, backup, backup! -- Lady Fitzgerald (w7forums)

Clone or Image often! Backup... -- RockE (WSL)


#9 QQQQ

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 09:24 AM

Just go to backup and restore from control panel and setup Windows backup to backup to the extra drive, you can schedule it as you'd like. Also create the recovery disk while you are at it just in case.



#10 RolandJS

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 09:34 AM

Just go to backup and restore from control panel and setup Windows backup to backup to the extra drive, you can schedule it as you'd like. Also create the recovery disk while you are at it just in case.

Scuttlebutt here and elsewhere recommends bypassing Windows backup/restore in favor of one of many free or pay-for third party programs.  Although many have been successful with Windows backup/restore, many others have had problems, especially when it comes to restore.


"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee."  -- Ben Franklin revisited.

http://collegecafe.fr.yuku.com/forums/45/Computer-Technologies/

Backup, backup, backup! -- Lady Fitzgerald (w7forums)

Clone or Image often! Backup... -- RockE (WSL)


#11 QQQQ

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 11:49 AM

I have heard of people having issues with Windows backup too but I have not experienced any myself.

I have this setup on over 200 PC's and have had to use it numerous times to restore a failed c drive. I am sure I will run into an issue some day but that day hasn't come yet.



#12 smax013

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 08:17 AM

Personally...I don't think RAIDs are proper solutions to any problem for personal users...it makes sense in a business climate with servers...but (IMO) properly backing up your system so that it can easily be restored...appears to be a lot more fundamentally sound as an approach to preparing for disaster.
 
It sounds as if you have some guarantee of some sort...that your hard drive will never have problems, while your SSD will.  I think that stats from the past regarding hard drive failures...will point in a different direction.
 
FWIW
 
Louis


I disagree. Drives in a RAID array are perfectly fine for "personal" users too. This mentality might have been true in the past when a RAID array was a much more expensive proposition and thus generally out of the reach of many consumer level systems. This is no longer true. Most motherboards of "built" systems will support various type of RAID arrays and you can get relatively cheap two drive RAID 1 external drives. Even many "manufactured" desktop computers (and laptops that support more than one internal drive) will support RAID arrays. And I will note that RAID 0 was traditionally VERY popular with a particular subset of "personal" users...aka gamers. Before the advent of SSDs, RAID 0 was the best way for gamers to get every ounce of speed while using traditional hard drives.

And I also disagree with the notion in the link that RAID 1 (or one of the other types of RAID, other than RAID 0...RAID 0 is, however, NOT a backup option) is not a backup. I will agree that it is not the best only backup option, but it is still a back up "layer". Someone using only RAID 1 as a backup is still way better off than someone who do NOTHING in terms of backing up. I agree that the best "only" backup option (i.e. if you are only going to do one "layer" of backing up) is to use an external drive that you back your files to whether using an actual backup program or even just doing it manually (i.e. regular old "drag and drop" copying of files from one drive to another). While RAID 1 will not handle accidental deleting of files, system corruption of files (generally), etc, it will handle a single drive dying, which is a VERY common way for people to lose data.

For me, RAID is part of my overall backup scheme...usually the first line of defense where feasible. I then also will backup and/or archive (depends on the type of data) to external media than can then be stored off site if I want. And I will usually have more than one of these backups.

Edited by smax013, 09 August 2016 - 08:35 AM.


#13 smax013

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 08:34 AM

Ok.  So, I bought a Dell Precision laptop because it has dual drives. 
 
I have one SSD and one HDD installed. 
 
What I want to accomplish is that my SSD backs up to my HDD so if the SSD crashes I have a backup right there and can swap in. 
 
I installed Windows and all my software to my SSD , but did not set the bios for Raid prior to initial setup... 
Do I need to start over?
 
What Raid setting will accomplish this? 
 
Do I need special RAID drives?


The RAID setting would be RAID 1...aka drive mirroring. You may encounter issues with using RAID 1 with an SSD and hard drive, however. At a minimum, you might find that you lose the speed benefit of the SSD as I believe the access speed might be throttled by the slower of the two (i.e. the hard drive). I am not completely sure if this will happen as I have never done a RAID 1 setup with a SSD and hard drive...just two hard drives. One definite this is that if the hard drive is bigger than the SSD, then the size of the SSD will limit the size of the RAID 1 array. RAID 1 arrays will always be limited by the smaller of the two drives. This is why RAID 1 is typically setup with two drives of the same size (i.e. so that you don't waste space on a large drive).

And there is a good chance you might need to start again with this time setting up the RAID before installing Windows, etc. I believe most hardware RAID systems require the RAID mode to be set before storing data. Again, I could be wrong on this. I know this would be true of RAID 0 or any of the higher RAID number versions (i.e. 5, 10, etc) just due to who they work, but not 100% sure with RAID 1. In my experience, I have always setup the RAID 1 array before I put any data on it...and I will note that I have only used RAID 1 arrays for pure data drives...not for boot drives with the OS and programs on it.

As others have noted, you are likely better off doing a more traditional backup scheme rather than RAID 1 if this is your only backup "layer". While I would tend to agree that it would be better to backup to an external drive, I also don't have a huge problem backing up to the internal drive...it is way better than nothing. Personally, my recommendation would be to do one backup to the internal drive and a second to an external drive. Two backups is always better than one! And with this approach, you would always have a backup with you while you are carrying around the laptop without having to carry an external backup drive with you. My other suggestion option would be to setup two SSDs (of the same size) in the laptop in RAID 1 and then put the hard drive into an external enclosure to then backup to in a more traditional way. The downside of this approach is that it is going to be the more expensive option (especially if the SSD is a large SSD).

#14 chrisarnt

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 08:17 AM

OK.  So I tried to set up raid on my precision laptop that was already running a single disk setup. 

Now It won't boot at all. 

 

I tried setting the bios back to defaults and it still will not boot. 

I tried to re-install windows and it will not recognize the newer ssd. It recognizes the old HHD that

s in the secondary position, but it won't install.

 

I think the hard drives need to be reformatted as if they are new. 

 

Any thoughts?



#15 smax013

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 08:15 AM

I think the hard drives need to be reformatted as if they are new.


That would be my first thing to try. I believe (but could be wrong) that when you use hardware based RAID, it does not sure typical "single disk" type formatting. So, if you switch off the RAID settings in the BIOS, then the disks might need to be reformatted again before you can use then as "single disks".




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