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puppy linux start up issue


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#1 rozzer

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 07:00 AM

Hi

Windows XP/Linux Mint 17.1

 

I am in the process of feeling my way round Puppy Linux (tahr 6.0 etc) and I quite like it so far, managed to download/burn

and run the DVD iso successfully with multisession. After finding my way round and playing with the settings I am becoming

quite hooked on it, anyway the issue I am concerned with is, when I save & finish the session I thought I would try to run it on

my Lappy which is Windows 8.1 dual boot with Linux Mint 17.1 but it will not open from the disc at start up, I did check the

boot order and it's fine starting with ODD 1st then HDD but it just starts up to the normal option of Linux or Windows start up

screen and ignores the disc.

I'm wondering whether I have to do another disc for the Windows 8.1 and if so it kinda defeats the object I was hoping for and

that is to use the Puppy Linux like a Flash drive whereas I could travel with just the disc.( I can not imagine that a new disc would

solve the problem really, but need to ask)

 

Sorry it's a long winded post.

Hope you can advise

 

Cheers


Edited by rozzer, 21 June 2016 - 07:04 AM.


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#2 DeimosChaos

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 08:17 AM

Sounds like even though your boot order is set correctly, it isn't actually wanting to engage the disk reader. Does your laptop have an option to select what you want to boot from when it starts up? For example, my lenovo I can hit F12 at startup and get to a boot menu selection, I can then choose the disk reader and boot from whatever is in it.

See if you can do something like that, should solve your issue.


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#3 vacuum-tube

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 08:45 AM

 Make sure your USB drive is plugged in and go into bios and then make sure your 1st boot is from USB drive and do a restart your laptop should than boot from USB drive.



#4 Mike_Walsh

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 09:01 AM

Hi, rozzer.

 

 

 

Make sure your USB drive is plugged in and go into bios and then make sure your 1st boot is from USB drive and do a restart your laptop should than boot from USB drive.

 

I agree with vacuum-tube. You'd be even better off with using Puppy as a portable on a flash-drive, simply because it's smaller, takes up less room (you can stick 'er in your pocket, or even put it on your key chain).....and most important of all, because Puppy was designed, right from the word go, to run from a flash-drive.

 

Create a Puppy USB install on a stick, then do as vacuum-tube says; insert the USB before you power-on, then go into the BIOS straight away, and set boot priority for the USB drive first. Some machines recognise USB flash drives as 'USB-HDDO', for some reason.

 

Or, you could simply copy your existing install across to your flash drive.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

1) Prepare the flash drive first. Make sure it's plugged in, and the icon is showing on the desktop.

 

2) Go to Menu>System>gParted. Select to show your flash drive from the list you'll get, and hit 'OK'.

 

3) Right-click on any partitions showing, and then 'Delete'. Now click on the big check-mark in the Menu bar, marked 'Apply'. You'll be asked to confirm that you wish to do this, then it'll give a final warning about loss of data. 'OK' all this.

 

4) Wait until gParted has finished that, then right-click > 'New Partition'.

 

5) Select ext3 as the file system type. Everybody says ext2 is better for flash drives, as it cuts down on read/write operations, but it corrupts rather easily. Ext3 will allow you to recover from mistakes!

 

5a) Right-click again on the partition you've just created, and choose 'Manage flags'. A small window will appear, and you want to tick the check-box for 'boot'.

 

6) Give it a 'Label' if you want, then exit gParted.

 

7) Back at the desktop, click on the drive icon for your flash drive. This will open a blank Rox-filer window, containing one item; 'lost + found'. That's your recovery directory.

 

8) Now, click on the drive icon that contains your Tahrpup install; it should come up as '/mnt/home'.

 

9) Highlight everything in this partition (except 'lost + found', if you already have one). If not, highlight the lot.

 

10) Click (and hold) on any item in /mnt/home, and drag it across to the window for your flash drive. Release the mouse button; a small window appears, with four options. 'Copy', 'Move', 'Link(relative)', 'Link(absolute)'. Choose 'Copy'. 

 

11) Rox will now copy the entire contents of your partition across to your flash drive, including your save-folder, which contains all your settings, and configuration). If you're using a sub-directory, rather than a partition, the process works just the same.

 

12) When this is done, you now need to make the flash drive bootable. Menu>System>Grub4DOS bootloader configuration.

 

13) Let it probe your drives. A window will appear, listing your drives. Highlight the option for your flash drive, and tick the checkbox on the right for 'Search within this device only'. Hit 'OK'.

 

14) The next window should list your Tahrpup install. At this point you can edit and re-name if you wish. You'll see an entry for Windows; don't worry about this, it's standard across all Puppies. All you need to know is that Puppy's version of Grub4DOS has been specifically tweaked to work with Puppy's admittedly unusual way of doing things! Again, hit 'OK'.

 

15) The next window asks if you wish to install Grub4DOS to this partition. Click 'OK' or 'Yes'.

 

16) The final window will tell you if it's been successful. It should have been, and you can now exit the program.

 

You've now copied your existing Tahrpup install across to your flash drive, and made it bootable..! Now, simply follow vacuum-tube's instructions, and mine, as above.

 

It should work nicely. Let us know how you get on, please; if you get stuck, post back again, and we'll try and sort things out.....it's a relatively simple process, TBH.

 

(Says the 'expert'..!  :P :rolleyes: )

 

Edit:- At a guess, it sounds like your laptop boot problem is more of a UEFI boot issue, especially if you're running Windows 8.1... I believe you need to disable not only 'Fast Boot', but 'Secure Boot', too; and that, I'm afraid, we can't help with, without knowing the make, model, and specs of your machine. If you can provide that, we can quite possibly tailor our advice a wee bit more accurately.

 

 

 

Mike.  :wink:


Edited by Mike_Walsh, 22 June 2016 - 06:32 AM.

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#5 rozzer

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 05:50 AM

Hi all

Thanks for responding.

 

# DeimosChaos.

I can't find a option to select boot order as you mentioned but I will keep looking.

I checked the bios again and I changed the order to ODD, USB & then HDD thinking that might help

but no luck, checked the boot up speed and its set to normal as opposed to fast and Secure boot is

disabled anyway, so that's not the problem so I tend to agree about the disk reader, (now that I think

about it I had the same problem when I installed Mint) and I got help from dc3 in the Windows 8.1 forum

and that entailed loading some codecs but that was for audio issues but after that it loaded the Mint disc.

 

# vacuum-tube & Mike.

I am using the disk simply because its the one I use on my desktop which has XP/Mint and no usb option

in the bios, so it looks like I will have to copy as per your instructions to a flash drive and use my disc on my

desktop only, or is it possible to save my work on my disk and then copy the changes to my flash drive making

it portable from my desktop and if so how much of a hassle is that. :unsure:

 

Let me just say thanks for those brilliant step by step instructions Mike, I will certainly do the copy of my install

but I first need to get a new flash drive.

It is inevitable that I will have to sooner or later get a new optical drive but its not critical if the above is a success.

 

Once again to you all

 

Cheers :)


Edited by rozzer, 22 June 2016 - 06:00 AM.


#6 Mike_Walsh

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 06:38 AM

Hi, rozzer.

 

Yes, it's perfectly possible to keep a copy of the save-folder on every machine you want to use your Puppy USB with.....but bear in mind that they won't be kept in sync with each other, unless you do this manually.

 

You'll be able to have just the core Puppy files on the USB this way.....but it's rather a hassle doing things like this. Frankly, it's much easier to keep the save-file on the same drive as the system; that way, your up-to-date files are always with you, wherever you plug Puppy in.

 

It's for this reason that I tend to recommend at least a 16 GB flash drive. It gives you plenty of room for Puppy's save-file/folder to expand as you add files, apps, etc.....

 

Also, to answer your question more specifically, yes, you can copy over the changes from your desktop hard-drive to your USB install. Simply copy the save-folder across to your flash-drive, and use the 'Quiet' option in the 'Copy' window; this saves you having to confirm every single file. This way, the old save-folder will be overwritten with the contents of the new.

 

I don't think Puppy contains an 'incremental' backup option, where only the 'new' stuff gets added, but then this is a little bit outside my experience. It's not something I've ever had any use for, since I always keep a USB Puppy's save-file/folder on the same drive..... This is, however, the method that Puppy itself uses when saving to the save-folder at the end of a session; just adds what's new, but there isn't, as far as I'm aware, a manual option for doing this.

 

 

Mike.  :wink:


Edited by Mike_Walsh, 22 June 2016 - 08:01 AM.

Distros:- Multiple 'Puppies'..... and Anti-X 16.1

My Puppy BLOG ~~~  My Puppy PACKAGES

Compaq Presario SR1916UK; Athlon64 X2 3800+, 3 GB RAM, WD 500GB Caviar 'Blue', 32GB Kingspec PATA SSD, 3 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, ATI Radeon Xpress 200 graphics, Dell 15.1" pNp monitor (1024 x 768), TP-Link PCI-e USB 3.0 card, Logitech c920 HD Pro webcam, self-powered 7-port USB 2.0 hub

Dell Inspiron 1100; 2.6 GHz 400FSB P4, 1.5 GB RAM, 64GB KingSpec IDE SSD, Intel 'Extreme' graphics, 1 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, M$ HD-3000 'Lifecam'.

 

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#7 rozzer

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 07:11 AM

Hi Mike

 

Maybe I'm missing the point here but what I was trying to say is:-

 

I work all the time on my desktop which I have to run Puppy from the disk on there as no usb boot option

so all my work would be saved to the disk, so far so good...but now I need to transfer all the saved work

from the disk to usb so I can use it on my lappy and/or anywhere else I travel too. I hope that makes sense

so far or can I save to a usb whilst i'm in Puppy, from a save-file, as well as saving to the disk when I log-out.

 

or am I just being thick :crazy: 

 

Cheers


Edited by rozzer, 22 June 2016 - 07:22 AM.


#8 Mike_Walsh

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 09:50 AM

Hi again,rozzer.

 

Sorry; I thought I'd made it clear! Obviously not...  :blush:

 

Let me see if I've got this right. You normally use Puppy on your desktop, running from the disc, as you have no USB boot option, yes? But you do have your Tahr save-folder on the hard drive, correct?

 

What you want to do is to transfer the saved work (i.e., the save-folder), to your USB install (when you get it made!), correct? 

 

Easy-peasy.

 

1) At the end of the initial USB session (the first time you boot from USB, in other words), simply tell Puppy that you don't want to save the session, i.e., create a save-file. Basically, just boot up, let Puppy settle down, then shut-down, straight away, saying 'No' to the save option.

 

2) That'll give you just the core Puppy files on the stick. Then, after booting from your desktop, plug your USB Puppy in, and open it up with ROX. You should just have ; initrd.gz, vmlinuz, and the puppy_tahr_6.05.sfs file. I think there's a z_drv.sfs on there as well (can't remember off the top of my head, I'm in Slacko64 at the moment.....but the z_drv.sfs is full of drivers, pretty much) There's a few other bits & pieces on there, too, but the important bits are those I've just mentioned. You should also have the 'menu.lst' and 'menu-advanced.lst'.....these will have been put there by Grub4DOS, when you made it bootable. But you shouldn't have the tahrsave folder there....with me so far?

 

3) OK. Locate your save folder on your desktop hard drive, and quite simply 'Copy' across to your USB, using the method I outlined above. Make sure you copy to the same window with the Puppy core files. Next time you boot your USB Puppy, it should boot up, as a mirror image of how you have it on the desktop, along with whatever files and or apps you've added.

 

4) To keep it updated, each time you want to use the USB, simply repeat the 'Copy' operation. On this and subsequent occasions, Puppy will overwrite the 'old' save-folder with the 'new' one. And that's all there is to it.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

There is a way to boot from USB on a machine that doesn't have USB boot capability. It's called PLOP.....and you can find it here:-

 

https://www.plop.at/en/bootmanager/full.html

 

This is used a lot by people who like to keep old hardware useful & productive. My own Dell Inspiron 1100 laptop was built in 2002/3; Dell, however, were the first manufacturer to not only make use of the newly introduced USB 2.0 standard, but the first to incorporate USB boot capability. Many other manufacturers didn't catch up to this for another 3-4 years, believe it or not.

 

If you can get the hang of using this (and it's quite easy, apparently), then you could run Puppy entirely from the USB stick, as it was intended to work.

 

If you decide to give it a try, let us know how you get on with it, please. I'd be curious to know, I'll admit!

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

Mike.  :wink:


Edited by Mike_Walsh, 22 June 2016 - 10:04 AM.

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Compaq Presario SR1916UK; Athlon64 X2 3800+, 3 GB RAM, WD 500GB Caviar 'Blue', 32GB Kingspec PATA SSD, 3 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, ATI Radeon Xpress 200 graphics, Dell 15.1" pNp monitor (1024 x 768), TP-Link PCI-e USB 3.0 card, Logitech c920 HD Pro webcam, self-powered 7-port USB 2.0 hub

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#9 Guest_hollowface_*

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 01:02 PM

Does your Windows 8.1/Linux Mint 17.1 computer use UEFI? Because, Tahrpup's iso isn't equipped for UEFI. If you aren't sure whether your computer is UEFI or not you can check using the steps below.

Check If Computer Is Using UEFI Via Windows 8.1:
1. Open the Command Prompt and type:

msinfo32
This will open System Information.
2. In System Information look for "BIOS Mode". If the system is USING UEFI it should say "UEFI".

#10 rozzer

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 03:20 AM

Hi Mike and hollowface

 

# Mike

Your instructions were perfect Mike, if I had read them properly the first time I wouldn't have had to ask again, so thanks for that and

your second reply was just as informative and also helps me, however, the fact that I did ask again brought to light this boot option 'PLOP'

which looks like a really handy piece of information, though I have only browsed it and need to read it more thoroughly and obviously

better than I did your instructions. :rolleyes:

 

# hollowface

My 'BIOS Mode' does indeed say 'UEFI' now not sure where that leaves me :scratchhead: thanks for bringing that up hollowface.

 

Cheers



#11 Mike_Walsh

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 09:45 AM

Hi, rozzer.

 

If you're using UEFI instead of BIOS, then I believe you would have to look at FatDog instead. I believe it is the only current Puppy that's been natively designed to work with UEFI from the ground up. I tried it briefly, around 18 months ago; wasn't very keen on it, as it's been re-written to such an extent it's not really a 'Puppy' anymore.....but that's just my personal opinion. You may find that you quite like it, because you haven't been using Puppy long enough to develop any prejudices..!

 

If you want to know more, then have a look here:-

 

http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/web/#home

 

See what you think; hope that helps.

 

 

Mike.  :wink:


Edited by Mike_Walsh, 23 June 2016 - 09:49 AM.

Distros:- Multiple 'Puppies'..... and Anti-X 16.1

My Puppy BLOG ~~~  My Puppy PACKAGES

Compaq Presario SR1916UK; Athlon64 X2 3800+, 3 GB RAM, WD 500GB Caviar 'Blue', 32GB Kingspec PATA SSD, 3 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, ATI Radeon Xpress 200 graphics, Dell 15.1" pNp monitor (1024 x 768), TP-Link PCI-e USB 3.0 card, Logitech c920 HD Pro webcam, self-powered 7-port USB 2.0 hub

Dell Inspiron 1100; 2.6 GHz 400FSB P4, 1.5 GB RAM, 64GB KingSpec IDE SSD, Intel 'Extreme' graphics, 1 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, M$ HD-3000 'Lifecam'.

 

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#12 sudodus

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 04:09 PM

Hi Mike,

 

I have been testing TahrPup with mkusb, and browsed the forums about Puppy Linux. Then I found your posts about Fatdog. Interesting, I understand that you are ambivalent about it, you are more happy with Puppy. For my testing, I must say that Fatdog works better with mkusb (compared to TahrPup). I could not find zenity, but dialog is available out ot the box, and mkusb version 12 can use both of these menu systems.

 

Do you know if there is some other flavour, version or fork of Puppy, that has /dev/disk/by-id and lsblk?

 

your old friend sudodus



#13 Mike_Walsh

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 08:33 AM

Hallo, hallo, sudodus. Long time no speak.....  :P

 

Well, now; as far as FatDog goes, no, I don't like it. I've tried it several times over the years, but as I said further back in this thread, the guys who developed it (jamesbond & Kirk) have based this particular one on Slackware. Nowt wrong with that (many Pups are), but they've taken it upon themselves to re-write it to such an extent that it's almost a unique operating system all on its own. A good part of the reason why it has its very own website.

 

I've got so used to Puppy working the way it does, that FatDog appears increasingly alien with every new release..!

 

I can appreciate your liking FatDog; out of all the Pups, it's the most like the mainstream Linux distros in operation. Even by Linux standards, Puppy's considered 'odd' by many folks. And the biggest problem that hits people coming to Puppy from, say, Ubuntu, is that Pup uses a rather different terminal 'vocabulary'.....a different 'instruction set', if you like. You cannot use half of the regular commands you would in the 'buntus, f'rinstance, because Pup's customized version of Busybox just doesn't recognise them. On the other hand, there's been a number of unique commands coded in that you simply won't find anywhere else in the Linux eco-sphere.

 

Example? 'fixmenus' for re-writing the JWM/ROX-Filer 'pinboard' menus. That's another kettle of fish entirely.....

 

I vaguely remember mkusb from the 'other' Forum. What are you wanting to achieve with Puppy, exactly? What do you want to do with zenity..? If you can give me some idea, perhaps I can help you out a wee bit more accurately. No promises, mind.....but I'll see what I can do.

 

If it's Puppy-related, it might be better to post in my 'Puppy Corner' thread. Keeps stuff in the same place, and just makes it easier for future newbs to find things...

 

(And just so's you know.....the old Dell lappy's still jogging along, and going from strength to strength. 15 years old and counting..!!)

 

Are we talking here about the original 32-bit Tahrpup.....or the more recent Tahr64?

 

Mike.  :wink:


Edited by Mike_Walsh, 29 June 2017 - 08:50 AM.

Distros:- Multiple 'Puppies'..... and Anti-X 16.1

My Puppy BLOG ~~~  My Puppy PACKAGES

Compaq Presario SR1916UK; Athlon64 X2 3800+, 3 GB RAM, WD 500GB Caviar 'Blue', 32GB Kingspec PATA SSD, 3 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, ATI Radeon Xpress 200 graphics, Dell 15.1" pNp monitor (1024 x 768), TP-Link PCI-e USB 3.0 card, Logitech c920 HD Pro webcam, self-powered 7-port USB 2.0 hub

Dell Inspiron 1100; 2.6 GHz 400FSB P4, 1.5 GB RAM, 64GB KingSpec IDE SSD, Intel 'Extreme' graphics, 1 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, M$ HD-3000 'Lifecam'.

 

KXhaWqy.gifFQ8nrJ3.gif

 

 


#14 sudodus

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 10:10 AM

Hi Mike,

 

I will continue our conversation in your 'Puppy Corner' thread :-)

 

sudodus






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