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Is bloatware something that people truly silently tolerate?


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#1 gamechanger

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 07:36 AM

Bloatware is harmful pre-installed software that manufacturer puts into the computer before it gets to the customer.
 
There are two types of people here in:
1) Ones who know about this menace, and remove the bloatware. Therefore they tolerate it, since they know how to get rid of it
2) Ones who don't know about bloatware, and just believe that "this is what computers are like". Once they don't recognise the issue, they can't care about it.
 
Manufacturers in their turn have managed to convince that bloatware is a must. Necessary, to get more of computer, or then to keep it affordable to you. Bloatware-free devices come at a premium price, although they demand less from the manufacturer: Don't go your way to install that crapware.
 
This is an issue, since users are completely uncatered for on this front. And the users themselves don't mind how things are, for reasons mentioned above. People think, nothing can be done.
 
Now I myself coming from a startup want to give all the readers here a chance to take action. I will not ask to participate, I will not say why you should participate.
But there is an elephant in the room, and I see that this emperor of an elephant is not only here, but it doesn't have clothes!
You can read more about this HERE.
 
I apologize if someone feels spammed here. If you do, please suggest me a better platform where to call the BS. Thank you.

Edited by Queen-Evie, 15 June 2016 - 01:36 PM.
moved from Speak Easy to General Chat


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#2 Chris Cosgrove

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 07:03 PM

'Bloatware' is very seldom harmful although there have been a couple of exceptions where manufacturers have gone beyond reasonable limits. Lenovo come to mind here, and I still haven't worked out why our latest TV wants to 'phone home'.

 

Why it is put on computers is very simple - profit. Computers have become a commodity product and as such the profit margins are extremely thin in a firecely competitive market. The fees the makers get for putting this bloatware on is often their difference between profit and loss. At the end of the day it doesn't matter too much - with the exceptions mentioned above. Yes it takes up some hard drive space but for most this is a long way from critical and some people actually find it useful !  I agree that getting rid of it - if you are aware of it - is a nuisance but it is not a hugely demanding task, but one I would rather not do if I could avoid it.

 

But then, I do avoid it, I build my own computers !

 

Chris Cosgrove



#3 rp88

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 07:05 PM

Tolerate?
I should hardly say we tolerate bloatware, atleast when we realise that a particular program is bloatware.
Thankfully uninstallation of bloatware is usually pretty simple, so when one gets a new computer one makes "check through all the pre-installed programs, find what they all do by searching around online, remove any that do nothing I want/do something I don't want" one of the chores alongside setting up the correct settings within programs/installing an antivirus/installing a decent browser/disabling un-necessary startups and services/installing other software one may need...

Bloatware isn't something people are happy with, but luckily when you realise it's there you can be rid of it pretty quickly, so you don't have to tolerate it at all.

I suppose though that the reason it keeps being installed is because most people aren't really aware of it, so do accept it because they don't realise what it is and that it's easy to remove. If most people made "removal of bloatware" one of their initial chores on a new system manufacturers would give up on bloatware pretty quickly, no companies would pay to have their software preinstalled on systems if they knew that almost everyone would get rid of their software in minutes.

Edited by rp88, 15 June 2016 - 07:06 PM.

Back on this site, for a while anyway, been so busy the last year.

My systems:2 laptops, intel i3 processors, windows 8.1 installed on the hard-drive and linux mint 17.3 MATE installed to USB

#4 RolandJS

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 09:52 PM

Guys, gals, we wanted:  cheap!  free!  Well, we got:  cheap and bloatware!  free and bloatware!

And, even some but not all the pay-fors include bloatware, Avast me mateys! I shall not mention for example names   :)   

As previous posters have indicated in this thread and in other threads, one has to have several tools in the shed including but not limited to:  advanced/custom installs, RevoDurchi, and sometimes even, don't tell Grinler  [r e g i s t r y  e d i t o r s].


Edited by RolandJS, 15 June 2016 - 09:53 PM.

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#5 gamechanger

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Posted 16 June 2016 - 06:02 AM

 

But then, I do avoid it, I build my own computers !

 

Well put. You aware of the issue, and it's not a problem for you, since you know your way around it.

And, like you said, profit is the reason to put it in: It is necessary to have, otherwise the prices wouldnt be right, etc. That seems to be the truth for many.

 

So when we have reality that profit is the reason for putting in bloatware, which is harmful in one way or another to a varying degree (if it's not harmful, it is not bloatware), I say that something is not right here in the customers' perspective. Looking into how computers are made and sold, there is plenty of room to adjust, and thus profits can come from elsewhere,  not from putting harmful stuff on computers. 



#6 Chris Cosgrove

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Posted 17 June 2016 - 06:06 PM

Gamechanger said -

 

if it's not harmful, it is not bloatware

 

I think we are using the same word with different meanings. When I, and most of the people I see here on BC, use the word 'bloatware' we are usually referring to pre-installed software like 30 day trials of Office 365 or McAfee, game packages, miscellaneous media players and so on. These are not in themselves harmful except in the fairly minor sense that they are taking up hard drive space. Even this, in the context of the size of hard drives fitted to computers today, is a fairly trivial amount of space.

 

You appear to be using the word in the sense of malware. I have set up and cleaned up a fair number of new computers for people over the years and have never come across pre-installed malware. The nearest to this that I know of is a series of laptops built by Lenovo about two years ago which had a Lenovo application installed which 'phoned home' among other things. They were quite properly taken to task for this and they stopped installing it. I did come across one, my wife's present laptop, which I felt had a remarkable number of persistent cookies on it but that's the nearest I've come so far.

 

I agree that bloatware - in my sense - is a nuisance, but a fairly minor one which is normally easily removed.

 

Chris Cosgrove



#7 Animal

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Posted 17 June 2016 - 06:19 PM

Thats why sites and applications like this exist: https://www.pcdecrapifier.com

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#8 Bezukhov

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Posted 18 June 2016 - 04:42 AM

Somebody in Redmond is following this thread:

Microsoft tests new tool to remove OEM crapware

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/06/microsoft-tests-new-tool-to-remove-oem-crapware/
To err is Human. To blame it on someone else is even more Human.

#9 vacuum-tube

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Posted 18 June 2016 - 06:36 AM

Bloatware only comes installed on prebuilt computers as they seem to think that it gives an end-user a better experience.

Most end-users aren't computer aware enough to realize that it is basically just useless and unnecessary software that usually is running in the background using extra resources.

 

I have always built my own computers and only used retail or kit builders copies of Windows which doesn't include bloatware.

I no longer use Windows and only use Linux.

Bloatware doesn't exist in Linux or any open source software that I know about.

 

Linux Rules IMO.

 

Just my two bits worth.



#10 RolandJS

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Posted 18 June 2016 - 07:35 AM

Somebody in Redmond is following this thread:
Microsoft tests new tool to remove OEM crapware
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/06/microsoft-tests-new-tool-to-remove-oem-crapware/

"...The tool is currently in preview and has some quirks; it installs a preview build from the fast track, but Microsoft notes that the new tool can sometimes install a version older than the one currently installed. When this kind of version mismatch occurs, the option to preserve your [data] files is removed..."

 

We might not want to be in any hurry to test beta version[s].


Edited by RolandJS, 18 June 2016 - 07:36 AM.

"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee."  -- Ben Franklin revisited.

http://collegecafe.fr.yuku.com/forums/45/Computer-Technologies/

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Clone or Image often! Backup... -- RockE (WSL)

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#11 Chris Cosgrove

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Posted 18 June 2016 - 05:06 PM

@ Bezukhov #8  -  Nice one !

 

Chris Cosgrove



#12 wizardfromoz

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Posted 18 June 2016 - 11:30 PM

Hi all - I had just posted some music at my Prog Rock topic and thought I had best trawl around a little and found this one.

 

Wikipedia have an article on software bloat here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_bloat   which says relevantly in part -

 

 

Bloatware

The term "bloatware" may be applied to software that has become bloated through inefficiency or accretion of features as outlined above.[3] Confusingly, the same term bloatware is also commonly used to refer to preinstalled software on a device, usually included by the hardware manufacturer, that is mostly unwanted by the purchaser. An example of this with the Samsung Galaxy S4 was when preinstalled software took up 45 percent of the phone's storage.[5]

The term may also be applied to the accumulation of unwanted and unused software elements that remain after partial and incomplete uninstallation. These elements may include whole programs, libraries, associated configuration information or data. The impact over time may be resultant deterioration of performance as the unwanted software or software components occupy memory, waste processing time, add disk I/O, consume storage and cause delays at system startup and shutdown. In the worst cases, the leftover software may interfere with the correct operation of wanted software.[6]

 

I had thought to wave the flag for Linux, but then saw that vacuum-tube had beaten me to it (Newbies to BC have all the energy, lol).

 

I also note that 5 - 8 contributors so far are either Linux users or interested in Linux.

 

Embrace Linux and watch the bloat disappear from your computer's waistline.

 

:wizardball: Wizard



#13 mjd420nova

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 04:02 PM

My favorite encounter was an older lady who had an ASUS system her husband bought her.  He knew less than she did as she got it started and hooked up with no help.  The problem came when she downloaded a new game and couldn't find the icon for it.  Her screen was completely filled with icons, you couldn't make out much of the background it was so packed.  After a clean up, moving games into a separate icon got rid of half the mess.  The other half was for ordering printer refills and such, even an old AOL dialup program.  She just thought it was necessary and didn't question its presence.



#14 Zone_86

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 06:33 PM

Interestingly now some motherboard install disks have what I would consider bloatware. MSI, Asus, Gigabyte are all now guilty of this. On some install disks if you choose an option like "install all" you will get something like Norton Antivirus Trial, Trend Micro Trial, etc. Usually it's just a trial antivirus but if you are a noob builder and get too happy about the build and click install all, well ... you get Norton for free! For a few months oh  ... YAY  :bananas:

 

However this is more of a "slight of eye" trick than actual bloatware. Best to click "custom install" or better yet go the website directly.






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