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Puppy Linux Question, where are the new 'Fatty' like ISO's these days?


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#1 cat1092

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 04:58 AM

The Topic header is much of my question, have tried in vain searching for a newer version of a Puppy that has all of the features that the older 'Fatty' releases of January & February 2014 had, while it doesn't seem that long back, must have been ages ago. :)

 

Because I installed the older 'precise-5.7.1-retro-fatty-2014-feb-csipesz.iso' in a virtual machine, and all of the software doesn't want to update, as I know that Chromium has a newer version than 29.xx, and that Opera 12.16 has to go. That's why I'd prefer a newer ISO, if all of this isn't going to update, and it's only supported until 2017 (if based on Ubuntu 12.04), it's not worth my efforts to bother, as I cannot possibly build a Puppy fully loaded like Fatty. 

 

Have clicked the Update switch several times, to no avail. Furthermore, would had made the partition larger than 10GiB, had I known it was suggested to have it on the partition, at 4.1GiB, am left with just over 2GiB to work with, and that ISO may have to go. May also be the reason why it's not updating (or am going about it in the wrong manner), not enough room, am new & unsure of these options, wanted to learn on a virtual machine, then move to a notebook that has the room or USB stick, or both. 

 

Yet first, a newer image would be great, and secondly, is it a waste of time to update this OS? If based on Ubuntu 12.04, it is a waste of my time, am not going to pour a lot of work in a project that's near EOL, exception near bottom of post. :)

 

At the same time, I realize that these tiny 200-300MiB ISO's can only have so much software, and Fatty was the cream of the crop. Maybe support was discontinued, or the maintainer chose not to upgrade to newer versions, these are questions I need answers to before beginning a Puppy journey. 

 

Since I'm not interested in a build myself, if there's one around 2-3GiB, that may do. Yet am not building from scratch, it would take too much time & effort to compile that much software in an OS. If there's an upgrade possibility from the present kernel, am also interested in hearing ideas. I do know that it was possible to upgrade 12.04 to 14.04, so don't see why the rules wouldn't apply here. 

 

If it's not possible to upgrade the OS & there are no larger ISO's loaded with software, then I'll look elsewhere for an alternative. 

 

BTW, this is what I have. :)

 

RDeyoPh.png

 

Thanks for any assistance offered! :)

 

Cat


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#2 Mike_Walsh

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 06:14 AM

Morning, Cat.

 

Righty-ho; now then..... Vis-a-vis Chrome; you are aware that it doesn't auto-update like Windows (and the major 'buntu-based releases), yes? The biggest problem for Puppy running the popular browsers is the fact that it runs as root all the time; Chrome refuses to run as root.

 

So, what we do, usually, is to download the latest Chrome .deb file from Google, then perform some command-line trickery to disable some of the sand-boxing, and to set the 'user-data-directory' to a suitable location. However, with Precise being 32-bit, you can't do this anymore, so..... Chrome 48 is the last version that will run on Puppy. Chromium, however, you can get the newest version, as one of our forum members, peebee, repackages the Slackware variant for Puppy, and also includes the latest PepperFlash for it. There are some caveats; a lot depends on the kernel version you're running as to whether the newer versions will run.....and it's not as easy to update your kernel as it is in Ubuntu, Mint, etc.

 

You have to understand with Puppy that what you are essentially installing is a 'fixed' snapshot of an operating system, frozen in time at the moment when it was built; if you want a dynamic, continuously updating system, you'd better look elsewhere, I'm afraid. The majority of Pups are produced by very small teams; they don't have the resources of Canonical, or the Mint team.....but they perform some pretty major miracles with what few resources they do have! Any updating has to be performed manually; this itself isn't a problem, as many of the more productive forum members have their own repos, and are continually releasing newer versions of many popular apps. It's not as 'bleak' as it sounds; Puppy's just a bit more 'hands-on', that's all!

 

I'm running standard Precise 5.7.1 myself:-

 

E50tPLq.png

 

.....in which I run Chrome 48, and Chromium 36 (I just like this particular version).....and for older Chrome/Chromium-type browsers, I've released a series of PepperFlash .pets to keep Pepper up-to-date. The 64-bit versions are of course continually getting updated; the 32-bit version, however, is finished, and stuck at 21.0.0.213.....the last 32-bit version released by Adobe. You can find these here:-

 

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=106409

 

If you want the most recent version of Chrome for 32-bit (version 48), forum member OscarTalks' repo contains it, here:-

 

http://smokey01.com/OscarTalks/

 

Simply install it, and it will run quite happily; Oscar's already performed the command-line trickery before he packaged it. Before you do, go into /opt, and make sure the existing Chrome folder is deleted; then, go into your 'File' folder (the root user folder that comes up when you click on File on the desktop) and click the 'eye' icon on the top bar. This will reveal the hidden config files & directories. you'll need to go into /.cache, and /.config, and remove any Chrome related stuff in these two; if you've only got Chromium-related things, leave them alone for now. Now, re-boot, and then find your downloaded Chrome 48 .pet, and simply click on it to install, and just follow the prompts. I don't know if you have a Google a/c; if you do, just sign in as normal. I've had one ever since Chrome was in beta!

 

And if you're interested, there is SlimJet...based on Chromium. Oscar's re-packaged a whole bunch of recent releases.....and the newest release will still run on the older, 32-bit Pups. I run SlimJet in all my older Pups; it's pretty much replaced Chrome for me.

 

 

 

Since I'm not interested in a build myself, if there's one around 2-3GiB, that may do. Yet am not building from scratch, it would take too much time & effort to compile that much software in an OS. If there's an upgrade possibility from the present kernel, am also interested in hearing ideas. I do know that it was possible to upgrade 12.04 to 14.04, so don't see why the rules wouldn't apply here.

 

Good heavens, man, nobody needs to compile stuff for Puppy these days.....it's all done for you by our enthusiastic developers, and the afore-mentioned more productive forum members. The amount of software, in both .pet & SFS format, that is available for Puppy is mind-boggling; the 'Additional Software' sub-forum on the Puppy Forums is a very good source for this.....but that's just the start. Each and every one of the 'main' releases has its own massive repo of ready-to-use stuff on ibiblio.org. And Puppy contains, or has easy access to, an astonishing number of conversion utilities that will allow you to convert back & forth between .pet, SFS, .deb. & .rpm formats. Slackware based Pups will install tar.xz files in the same way that most Pups install .pets.....with a single click.

 

Hope that helps. Any questions, you know where to find me.

 

 

Mike.  :wink:


Edited by Mike_Walsh, 05 June 2016 - 09:45 AM.

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#3 pcpunk

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 08:55 PM

Is this what ya looking for dog, um...I mean cat lol.

http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/iso/

 

Love me some Fatdog!  Why don't you use TahrPup?

Tahrpup uses Ubuntu 14.04 LTS Trusty Tahr packages and includes the bugfixes and improvements from the woof CE build system. It is compatible with Ubuntu 14.04 packages. The Linux kernel version is 3.14.20.

http://puppylinux.org/main/Download%20Latest%20Release.htm

 

http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/puppy-tahr/iso/tahrpup%20-6.0-CE/


Edited by pcpunk, 05 June 2016 - 08:57 PM.

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#4 cat1092

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 01:34 AM

pcpunk, you know that I've been a fanboy of FatDog64 for a couple of years! :thumbup2:

 

Boot it on most any 64 bit computer, even with only a couple GB of RAM, runs faster than LInux MInt (or any other) on SSD, that's what I keep to diagnose computers with, and keep the last few releases in a folder, since these takes little room. Sometimes the pre-Slacko ISO's are desired, actually I wish that FatDog hadn't went the way of Slackware, no newbie can learn this w/out some one on one assistance. 

 

Would be great if they offered a more loaded ISO, even a 1GB sized one can hold a lot of software. 

 

I'll look around and explore my options, what I don't want to do is get into something & find myself in too deep of of a rut to get out of, other than deleting all of the files on disk, or if virtual drive, delete & create another VM. Didn't know that Puppy wants the ISO on the drive also, not bad for those with a smaller Pup, yet 4.1GB is a huge chunk of space on a 10GiB partition, with another 1GiB for Swap. 

 

Maybe FatDog64 will be the answer, maybe not. I'll explore options, including other small Linux OS's, of which there's a few (one was only a little over 40MB in size). A Google Chrome download is larger than that. :P

 

Though it's not Linux, ReactOS is still free open source software, may be an interesting project, though it's one long in the works (at least 7-8 years) & not out of alpha yet, would be great to run Windows software on a Free OS, the chances of infection would likely drop. I fear that the devs won't be able to pull it off for two reasons, lack of funding, and the hurdles to overcome not to be a Windows 1:1 clone. These are also small ISO's, about 55-65GB in size. This is one of the reasons that Microsoft won't 'open source' EOL OS's, plus there's some like Vista that shares too much of W7's code. 

 

In fact, even W10 has code predating this Millennium. 

 

I'll find a secondary OS to run somewhere, keeping in mind that this is a hobby & will never become my default OS. Just something that I can carry on a 16-32GiB USB stick, preferably USB 2.0, because we have members openly stating issues with booting to USB 3.0 & I've had the same. Created recovery media on a brand new USB 3.0 ADATA stick, and it didn't boot, nor did the one where the Recovery partition was copied. Thank goodness for backups, otherwise would had been in a jam. 

 

Ordered a couple of low cost USB 2.0 Kingston models, both performed the same job properly. Who cares if it's slower than USB 3.0? It's still much faster than handing off one DVD at a time. THis is why I'll likely use USB 2.0 drives for this purpose, and there's some good brands available still. Lexar is one, with a drive that almost resembles a pocket knife when flipped open (got a 8GiB model from Crucial as a holiday promo for $2.14 shipped). It's really Lexar & says Crucial instead, I suppose the same corporation (Micron) has both brands, and we all know that Micron is a leader in the NAND industry, to include USB sticks, SSD's, RAM & corporate storage solutions. 

 

Plugged into a USB 3.0 port, will still run fast, so there's a solution for me somewhere, just have to find what I want. :)

 

Mike & pcpunk, Thanks for your assistance! :)

 

Cat


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#5 NickAu

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 02:14 AM

 

Would be great if they offered a more loaded ISO,

Puppy has heaps of software, Maybe you could remaster your own ISO.



#6 cat1092

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 03:16 AM

That would be great, yet I know little about remastering, other than slipstreaming of drivers & SP's into Windows, which really doesn't involve a lot of remastering, just a few drivers & maybe a SP. 

 

If it's a matter of removing one app (such as Chromium) & dropping in a newer version, I suppose that I could manage that. Just wonder like with slipstreamed Windows ISO's, if this would come out as the same. It could (or should) easily be done with media on a USB stick, as the folders can be opened. Just need to get a list of the installed software & check for newer versions, remove & replace. Hopefully that's all that'll be needed, other than the kernel itself. Maybe download like Ubuntu & Linux MInt, usually there's three .deb files & open each in the right order. 

 

While it may work, what I don't know for sure if this updates the underlying OS, or there's more work for that, that's where I'll be stumped. Seems like the updating system would had done a lot of this for me, after all, what good is a update click when it doesn't work?

 

Cat


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#7 NickAu

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 03:30 AM

 

That would be great, yet I know little about remastering,

I will leave the explanation on how to do this to our resident Puppy expert Mike.

 

I am too full of pain killers ( Prescription type )  and antibiotics to type too much. I cut my leg on something in the flood waters and its a " bit " infected, Thank god for pain killing medication.

 

what-if-i-told-you-i-took-both-pills-and


Edited by NickAu, 06 June 2016 - 03:33 AM.


#8 cat1092

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 03:43 AM

 

 

 Thank god for pain killing medication.

 

+1! :thumbup2:

 

Having been on it for 11 years, can certainly vouch for that. Have learned one lesson, never go to a ER or for a hospital stay & not have normally consumed dosages. :P

 

Because sometimes the nurses 'dips into' some patients meds, wow was I lucky when I last had surgery to think of stashing a week's supply in a place where it would be hard to find, in my travel bag. I can tell if I'm being cheated out of one, it was broken into bits with dispensed, no way was it my normal dosage. I was prepared, because a friend told me to be. :P

 

Cat


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#9 Mike_Walsh

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 06:00 AM

 

 

I will leave the explanation on how to do this to our resident Puppy expert Mike.

 

Um; wow. Thanks for the vote of confidence, Nick. I wouldn't describe myself as an 'expert', so much as a very enthusiastic 'dabbler'..!

 

But I'll see what I can do, advice-wise.....

 

@Cat:-

 

RE: re-mastering. It's actually far simpler than you might think. The majority of Pups (I don't know about FatDog; not that keen on it myself) include a built-in, custom facility for doing exactly this.....along with plenty of 'tooltips', etc., to guide you through the process. I've done a couple myself; I've done a re-master of ETP's 'Chromebook' Pup, which includes all my own favourite apps.....and that's on top of the million and one ETP has already included. I think the ISO size is somewhere around the 900 meg mark.

 

Gotta dash; I have to go and do the shopping; I live with my 82-yr old Mum, who has spinal arthritis.....I look after her full-time, y'see. I'll get back to you later on about this.....see if I can dredge the grey sludge up top, and come up with any more nuggets of advice!  :lol:

 

Catch ya later.

 

 

Mike.  :wink:


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#10 Mike_Walsh

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 12:26 PM

Hi again, Cat.

 

Mm. Well, to the best of my knowledge, csipescz is the only guy who's ever done anything quite like the 'mega' editions; he's only ever used the older releases, and he's not been active on the forums for a while now. I don't want to sound like I'm putting you off (heaven forbid), but we're perhaps considered a funny lot in Puppyland by the rest of the Linux community.

 

We don't worry about running as root.

 

We don't bother ourselves about keeping every last little detail of a system bang up to date. (*shock, horror..!!*)

 

Most Puppy users just want to repurpose old hardware, and to get something (anything!) running on old clunkers. This is why so many 'noobs' who've come across from Windows, or even other Linux distros, are horrified when they don't get regular doses of updates; 'What's going on? This ain't right...'

 

Although many Pups are based on code from the 'buntus, and have access to the repos, that's where it stops. We've got the ability to update the repos, as far as that goes.....but as I said before, the system itself is a frozen 'snapshot in time', as and when it was built. If you want to upgrade stuff, you have to be prepared to tear into the system yourself, and upgrade things, one at a time, by hand. Having said that, the speed at which updates and installs occur is a revelation to many, because of the fact that Puppy runs in RAM.....which is at least a magnitude faster than even an SSD. Like my printer and scanner drivers; in Ubuntu, it used to take 4-5 minutes, at least. In Puppy, it's a matter of seconds.....

 

Your other option would be to take something like Tahrpup64 6.05, or the newer Slacko64 6.3.0, add everything to it that you want to, and then re-master it yourself, using the very easy-to-follow built-in tools that are included with every Puppy specifically for that purpose. Tahr still has at least 3 years more 'support'; Slacko, well.....I'm afraid I don't really know what Slackware's release cycle is like, although I know it's based on Slackware 14.1. But from the sound of things, what you're really after is a 'fully-loaded' Pup, based on a very recent LTS release, with the ability to update itself. And that last item is the one thing Puppy just doesn't do, I'm afraid.

 

(Mind you, downloading a complete new Pup takes less bandwidth than most of Redmond's 'Patch Tuesday' sessions.....) And the whole Puppy 'ethos' is about keeping it as small & lean as possible (the user adds what they want); users like csiepescz are very few and far between!

 

We've got many enthusiastic developers who regularly release upgraded utilities and system basics.....which you have to manually install. If you're the sort of person who wants to 'use' their system, rather than 'play' with the system, then Puppy isn't really for you.

 

I'm not trying to put you off, at all; I'm just being not only pragmatic, but bluntly honest as well. I don't think you want to bother with something which, as you yourself have said, will be EOL before very much longer. Though having said that, you'd be astonished at the sheer size of 'Lucid' Puppy's userbase (based on 10.04 'Lucid Lynx', which went EOL over a year ago); it's still very highly regarded in Puppyland.

 

Barry K is currently experimenting with his 'Quirky' series, many of which are based on very new releases; there's one based on Xerial Xerus, the brand new 5-year support LTS release.....but he's not building it with a view to making it an everyday, user-friendly distro; more as a platform for trying out new ideas. So, it's not what you'd call 'stable'; I think you would absolutely hate it, Cat.....and I mean that in the nicest possible way. 

 

I think, personally, that you need to look at some of the other, more mainstream releases. The one thing common to all the lightweight & 'micro' distros is the lack of updaters.....because they simply don't have the resources that Mark Shuttleworth and Clement LeFebvre do, i.e., a fairly sizeable organisation with access to private funding.....in Shuttleworth's case, it comes out of his own pocket, as they've never really been able to break even, even by providing tech support for enterprise.

 

Any distro which is going to live permanently on a USB stick must, by its own nature, and that of flash memory, be able to minimise reads/writes to those 'sticks'. Most distros can be installed to a stick, yes; but they still act as though they're running off an HDD, because that's how they're written to work. It's how I've managed to trash at least 3 or 4 sticks in my early Linux days.....because I didn't understand about that, as well as the huge difference in the way that 'Puppy' is designed to work.

 

I don't really know what else to suggest, Cat. You don't seem like the 'hands-on' type to me, although I may have read you totally wrong, of course.....  :P

 

 

Mike.  :scratchhead:


Edited by Mike_Walsh, 06 June 2016 - 01:24 PM.

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#11 Al1000

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 01:15 PM

I've tried one or two of the old "fat" puppies, and don't really see the point, unless you happen to want all the software that comes with them.

 

As one of the advantages, or perhaps even the main advantage of Puppy, is that it's lightweight, to then bloat it with lots of software seems to defeat the purpose to a large extent.

 

Also, standard Puppies such as Tahr and Precise already come with lots of (lightweight) software, already installed.



#12 Al1000

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 01:17 PM

re-master it yourself, using the very easy-to-follow built-in tools that are included with every Puppy specifically for that purpose.


Yep, tried that once before, and like you say, it's "very easy to follow." :)

#13 Mike_Walsh

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 04:21 PM

Hey, Al.

 

Yep; I, personally, tend to agree with you. The best way to run any Pup is to simply add what software you actually need. I'm not knocking csiepescz; he does an absolutely amazing job with those 'mega. Pups.....but it's not the sort of thing I would want myself.

 

My Pups are all set up pretty much identically, as far as the apps/progs go. It's done that way so that no matter which Pup I boot into (sometimes down to 'eeny,meeny.miny.mo...'  :lol: ), I can get on with whatever I'm doing without delay. I add Chrome/Chromium-based browsers, Thunderbird for mail, Skype, Teamviewer. Libre Office, the GIMP, and WINE.....with which I run Photoshop CS2, Mooi's PhotoScape (which I've been using for years), and LTSpiceIV.....for electrical diagrams and circuit testing. I also run LibreCAD; do a fair bit of technical drawing, too. And VLC and Audacity on the multimedia side...and that's it.

 

I don't use half of the installed stuff.....and a lot of what csiepescz includes in his mega editions I've never even heard of, never mind have a need for..!

 

 

Mike.  :P


Edited by Mike_Walsh, 06 June 2016 - 04:22 PM.

Distros:- Multiple 'Puppies'..... and Anti-X 16.1

My Puppy BLOG ~~~  My Puppy PACKAGES

Compaq Presario SR1916UK; Athlon64 X2 3800+, 3 GB RAM, WD 500GB Caviar 'Blue', 32GB Kingspec PATA SSD, 3 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, ATI Radeon Xpress 200 graphics, Dell 15.1" pNp monitor (1024 x 768), TP-Link PCI-e USB 3.0 card, Logitech c920 HD Pro webcam, self-powered 7-port USB 2.0 hub

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#14 Al1000

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 04:43 PM

You've obviously used Puppy a lot more than I have. All I can recall ever installing to Puppy is Firefox (in Lucid Puppy), and Conky.

I probably haven't even looked at the majority of applications that come with a standard Puppy such as Lucid, Precise or Tahr, never mind the applications that come with a "fatty" Puppy!

#15 Mike_Walsh

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 05:09 PM

I gotta confess, I have rather been getting 'into Puppy' in a big way this last couple of years. And originally, I only turned to it in sheer desperation at the unasked-for system freeze-ups and graphical 'glitches' I was getting through Canonical's continuous & never-ending updates.

 

As soon as I went all-Puppy, everything ran as smooth as so much oiled silk.....

 

FireFox; yeah. I have a kinda love/hate relationship with FireFox. I love having it there as a back-up browser, knowing that it will work (that's when it's not throwing a tantrum, and crashing every few minutes.....although the more recent offerings seem to be more stable in that respect). I hate how 'clunky' it is, compared to the Chromium-based browsers; my work just 'flows' in Chrome.

 

But that's one of the nice things about Linux; the sheer amount of choice you've got. Although some folks, used to Windows, seem to find that choice bewildering.....and complain that there's too much choice! Can't please some folk, can you?  :rolleyes:

 

 

Mike.  :wink:


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