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I think this AsRock motherboard died. Did it?


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#1 Tim_K

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Posted 15 May 2016 - 07:33 PM

I have a second PC here that I use for testing hard drives and copying files, and like that.  It's been running fine for a year and a half, and today, it just up and died, apparently.

 

The setup:

 

Corsair CX430 power supply.

Asrock H61M-DGS motherboard.

6 GB of RAM

Celeron dual core CPU

Sapphire 7950 GPU (ex-bitcoin mining GPU)

Windows 7 Pro 64 bit

 

When I press the power button, the fans will jerk briefly, then nothing.

 

If I unplug the 4 pin power connector from the motherboard, the fans will spin up normally, but no video or loading of Windows, or any beeps or anything else.

 

I tried unplugging and reconnecting everything, cleaning all the connectors, draining the power off the board, using only 1 RAM stick, the power plugs have no dirty or smoked pins, etc.

 

And ideas or tricks to try, or is this board shot?


Edited by Tim_K, 15 May 2016 - 09:25 PM.


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#2 JohnC_21

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Posted 15 May 2016 - 07:50 PM

Do you have a spare PSU you can swap? If not check the PSU with a multimeter. Although not foolproof it can give you an indication of a bad PSU. A PSU may check fine but fail under load.

 



#3 ranchhand_

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 06:43 AM

 

When I press the power button, the fans will jerk briefly, then nothing

Just FYI....that is not a characteristic of when a mobo fails; sound more like a bad power supply as JohnC said above, or possibly your power-on switch is shorting out. You can test it by pulling the cable off where is connects to the mobo, then short the two, tiny contacts which are now exposed with a screwdriver. The unit should power up and run normally. If it does, the front power switch has broken and is shorting out your system.

As far as testing your PS, and if you don't know how to use a meter-tester as per John's picture above, you can order a tester from Newegg.com that will test all leads. They are quite inexpensive.


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#4 dc3

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 10:45 AM

When you press the power button this shorts the two header pins on the motherboard which in turn initiates the startup of the PSU.  If there is a problem with the motherboard this could result in the PSU shutting down.  You can test this by bypassing the motherboard to see if the PSU will start and remain running.

 

With the computer off, turn off the power switch on the back of the PSU and unplug it from its line voltage.

 

Open the case and touch the bare metal of the case to discharge any static electricity.

 

Then remove the 24 pin PSU connector from the motherboard. 

 

Use a paper clip or a small gauge wire to jump between the green wire socket on the connector and any of the black wires socket.  Make sure that the connector is not touching any other components inside the case.

 

Plug the PSU back in and turn the PSU on via the on/off switch. 

 

If the PSU starts and stays running the case fans the problem is with the motherboard or one of its components.

 

 

If you wish to test the rail voltages of the PSU with a DMM as previously suggested you need the following information.

 

There are five different DC rail voltages which are color coded. The Black wires are always negative.
 
Yellow +12VDC
 
Blue -12VDC
 
Red +5VDC
 
White -5VDC
 
Orange +3.3VDC
 
There are only three voltages that can be measured easily without disconnecting the 20/24 pin connector from the motherboard: +12V, +5V, and +3.3V.
 
The +12V and +5V voltages can be read from a four pin Molex power connector.
 
Four pin Molex power connector
 
th_250px-Molex_female_connector.jpg
 
 
The same voltages can be taken from a four pin SATA power connector, but in order to read the +3.3V you will need to read this from a five pin SATA power connector as seen below.
 
Five pin SATA power connector.
 
th_sata-power-cable.jpg
 
To read these voltages you will need to insert the Black (-) probe into any of the black  sockets, and insert the Red (+) probe in the different colored voltage sockets.   To read the voltages from a SATA power connector it is easiest to insert the probes into the bac k of the connector where the wires enter.  Unfortunately the sockets of the modular SATA power connectors are not accessible from the back, so the readings will need to be made from the socket side.  Some probes are going to be too large to fit in these sockets, so you may need to insert a piece of wire into the socket of which you want to read the voltage of and place the probe on this for your reading.  To reduce the potential of creating a short I would suggest taking the ground potential from another connector so that the two wires will remain physically separated.
 
Caution:  It is very important to make sure that you don't allow the two probes to touch each other when taking the voltage readings.  This will cause a short which could damage the PSU or other components.
 
To get the most accurate readings of the rail voltages it is important that there be a load on the PSU.  Running a game or burning a DVD is enough to do this.   If you want a program with will put a load on, I would suggest downloading Prime95 and run the Just Stress Test for this purpose. This program was designed to be used by overclockers to put a full load on the RAM and CPU to determine the stability of their overclocking.  Because of this it will put stress on the CPU and RAM which will create higher than normal temperatures.  For this reason I would suggest not running this program any longer than is necessary.  I would also suggest that an inspection be made of the interior of the case to make sure that there isn’t an accumulation of dust which would impede adequate cooling.  Pay special attention to the heat sink and fan assembly on the CPU.  If there is a dedicated graphics card with a fan installed on it, look at this fan as well.      
 
 
Readings should not have variances larger than +/- five percent.  
 
Maximum.........Minimum
12.6V.................11.4V
5.25V.................4.75V
3.47V.................3.14V

Edited by dc3, 16 May 2016 - 10:46 AM.

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#5 Fascist Nation

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 03:15 PM

An 7950 pulls 180W (15A) on the +12V rail before any overclock.  On a bitminer that GPU is going to be working hard.  If the same PSU was on the miner then it took a lot of abuse.

A Corsair CX430 is built to last a little more than 3 years.  And it has some mediocre output specs.  The V2 +12V rail puts out 32A at 30C.  The original put out 34A (from my memory) and I don't remember whether it split the rail. 

The hotter it gets above 30C the lower the specified max output available to the system.

Pulling the auxiliary CPU power cable took some of the load off of the PSU and apparently allowed the system to boot up.  Do you normally get a "good" beep?  How do you know Windows did not boot up (no drive activity light)?  Pretty fair evidence bad PSU or bad CPU (unlikely).


Edited by Fascist Nation, 16 May 2016 - 03:18 PM.


#6 Fascist Nation

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 05:09 PM

.... A PSU may check fine but fail under load.

 

....youtube.com/watch?v=ac7YMUcMjbw

Thank you JohnC for that video. 

First time I ever saw someone correctly put the PSU under some load (a fan).  The specs call for a PSU to shut down when the power good signal is tripped if it is not under some load. Most do not implement that partof the spec but the ones that do get penalized by people who think the PSU is bad, and when a PSU fails to turn on I am always asking did you out it under some load?

 

To clarify for anyone reading this, a PSU failing under load means something different.  It means under the load placed upon it by the PC when running.  And when testing it is tested to the limit of its claimed specs; something a very expensive machine handles (for example).

 

It is also nice to see someone testing with a Volt Ohm multitester instead of those silly PSU testers. 

 

Minor quibbles: The -5V line was dropped a long time ago (it was for ISA slots).  It is not even present on the wiring harness. 

 

The voltages must read +/- 5% of their voltage to be in spec, except the -12V which is allowed 10%. 

 

There is also a 5vsb line now that supplied 5V to the powered USB ports. 


Edited by Fascist Nation, 16 May 2016 - 05:25 PM.


#7 ranchhand_

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 05:40 PM

 

those silly PSU testers.

It is true that a voltmeter is a superior way to go. You are 100% correct. You also have to realize that this forum is accessed largely by regular folks that just want to get their units back up and running so they can get back to normal living again. They know nothing about what you posted about, and have no time or inclination to study on it. These testers by and large are accurate, and if a rail or lead is dead or fluctuating voltage they will let you know. Several times I have sent PSs back to Newegg because they were bad. I have two of these testers and if both give me the same reading I call it gospel. So far  manufacturerers have confirmed my diagnoses, and issued credit. Saved me hours of trying to figure out why a newbuild or repair job would not boot.

Just a thought.  :0)


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#8 Tim_K

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Posted 20 May 2016 - 10:07 AM

I tried the trick of unplugging the power switch from the motherboard and just jumping the terminals.  Same problem, the fans won't spin unless I unplug the 4 pin power connector, and even then, nothing else happens.

 

I tried a different power supply the other day, no change.

 

I should mention that although this power supply, motherboard, and GPU did Bitcoin mining in the past, it hasn't for a year and a half.

 

And the motherboard has never been in a case.  It sits bare, on top of the cardboard box it came in.

 

The CPU did live with a 50% load on it, from doing Asteroids@home, through the BOINC distributed computing program.  About 9-12 months of that.

 

I can try using the jumper and testing the motherboard, although I am a bit worried about sparks and smoke from that.


Edited by Tim_K, 20 May 2016 - 10:07 AM.


#9 dc3

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Posted 20 May 2016 - 10:49 AM

The only real potential problem would be if you shorted the jumper to the case.  This is why I specifically stated that the jumper needs to be positioned so that it can't short.


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#10 Tim_K

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 05:23 PM

Ok, I think I understand the idea of shorting the green wire to any black one on the 24 pin connector.  That turns the power supply and fans on.  But I have one question.  Once shorted, I then flip the power switch on the power supply with the 24 pin plug UNPLUGGED from the motherboard, right?

 

What if I plug the 24 pin connector into the motherboard with the jumper in place?  What happens then?  Would it be bad?



#11 Fascist Nation

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 08:57 AM

You are talking about the paperclip as jumper in the video?  Unplugged, yes.  You wouldn't be able to plug the 24-pin harness in because the paperclip would be in your way unless you put it on top of the harness. Nor would doing so serve a purpose.  You are merely testing to see if the power good signal (green wire) turns on the PSU (fan) which is its purpose.  The rest of the computer is not involved (other than to provide a load).  You can wrap tape around the paperclip to insulate and prevent it from shorting out to anything if you wish and the 24-pin harness keeps wanting to retract back into the case.

  • If it does then it does, and that is all you proved. 
  • If it does not, or does but the PSU quickly shuts down (assuming you put it under load as in the video), then the PSU is defective.

Of course one complication is that the fan in the PSU will often quickly turn off now in a better modern PSU if the PSU is not running very hot to save electricity.  But I don't think the CX430 does that; its revision was before the EU/EPA pushed such behavior.  But for those who have a recent PSU with such a feature including thermo-regulated fan speed that would mean you would need to measure voltage outputs to show the PSU was still on or rule out it had indeed started up and then shutdown.  


Edited by Fascist Nation, 23 May 2016 - 09:16 AM.


#12 dc3

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 09:11 AM

Ok, I think I understand the idea of shorting the green wire to any black one on the 24 pin connector.  That turns the power supply and fans on.  But I have one question.  Once shorted, I then flip the power switch on the power supply with the 24 pin plug UNPLUGGED from the motherboard, right?

 

What if I plug the 24 pin connector into the motherboard with the jumper in place?  What happens then?  Would it be bad?

The pins on the motherboard need to be inserted in the 24 socket PSU connector in order for it to work.  The jumper would make this impossible.


Family and loved ones will always be a priority in my daily life.  You never know when one will leave you.

 

 

 

 


#13 Tim_K

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 10:19 PM

The motherboard has never been in a case, as I stated earlier.  It sits out in the open on top of its cardboard box.

 

I'll try the jumper with the 24 pin disconnected and see what happens.






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