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Expensive new build. No signal to monitor :(


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#1 MajesticFailure

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 06:06 PM

Components of Self-Build PC (all brand new):

Motherboard: ASRock X99 Extreme4/3.1
CPU: Intel Core i7-5820k [PURCHASED FROM FROM A PRIVATE SELLER ON EBAY, UNOPENED PACKAGING THOUGH]
CPU Cooler: CoolerMaster Hyper 212x
GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 950 SC (NVIDIA, Superclocked, 2GB, GDDR5) [PURCHASED FROM FROM A PRIVATE SELLER ON EBAY, UNOPENED PACKAGING THOUGH]
RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws 4 Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 2400 (PC4 19200) Desktop Memory Model F4-2400C15Q-32GR (quad channel)
HDD: Western Digital WD10EZEX 1TB SATA lll Desktop SATA Drive - Blue
SSD: PNY CS2211 2.5" 480GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) SSD7CS2211-480-RB
PSU: Corsair CX600M (this is semi-modular, although tbh l have used just about all the cables it came with)
DVDRW: Samsung SH-224FB/RSMS 24X Internal DVD Writer with SATA
Monitor: BenQ GW2765HT Black 27" 4ms HDMI Widescreen LED Backlight LCD Monitor IPS



Connections:

The PSU is connected to the DVDRW, the SSD, the HDD, and the GPU.
The GPU is connected to the PCI 3 lane (PCIE 1), the first PCI lane on the mobo.
The HDD and SSD are connected to SATA ports on the mobo.
The DVDRW is connected to the USB 3.0 header on the mobo.
The PSU is connected to the 24-pin ATX Power Connector (ATXPWR1) on the mobo.



Problem:

The PC would not output a signal to my Benq monitor (nor a second monitor l got from a charity shop, connected via an adapter) at any of the following stages (even though l have a self-booting Linux disc in the optical drive - there are no POST error noises):

(1) First, the PC would power up, abruptly cut out after about 4 seconds, then power up again and stay on.

(2) Then l changed the GPU connection to the PSU by removing the twin molex cables (required for some PSUs l think, it was actually compatible with my PSU anyhow) connected to the GPU's 6-pin (?) connector, and l connected the PSU directly to the GPU via the GPU's 6-pin (?) connector. Then, the PC would power up and stay powered up.

(3) Then l attached the PSU 8-pin connector to the 8-pin ATX 12V connector on the mobo, near the CPU (in *addition* to the existing PSU connection to the 24-pin ATX Power Connector on the mobo), and the PC went back to powering up, staying on for about 4 seconds, before abruptly cutting out and then automatically powering up again and this time staying powered up.


Please could somebody advise on what has gone wrong. I feel that either something is DOA, or more than 1 thing is DOA, and / or l'm just doing something wrong anyway?

Please note: the HDD and SDD are blank.

 

EDIT: Just remembered: I don't have an internal speaker, so that'll by why l hear no POST beeps. Could l get POST beeps via external speakers?
 


Edited by MajesticFailure, 12 May 2016 - 07:44 PM.


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#2 rqt

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 02:51 AM

POST beeps are generally produced by a sounder on or directly connected to a motherboard header & will generally not be audible though normal external speakers. So unless your board has a fixed sounder you need to connect a sounder for this - there may be one built into your case.

 

First check that you have connected the PSU to the 8 pin 12v CPU power connector on the motherboard (ATX12V1) as you have not mentioned this. You should not need to connect the PCI-e 4 pin molex connector on the board (PCIE_PWR1) as you have only 1 graphics card..

 

If it still won't POST then personally I would disconnect everything except PSU/motherboard/CPU/RAM/graphics card/monitor/ POST beep sounder & try again. If that still does not POST then I would remove the above parts from the case & try it on the bench. If it still doesn't POST then you would need to either start swapping parts out or take it to someone to diagnose for you. I would tend to be looking at the eBay purchases & especially the graphics card first.


Edited by rqt, 13 May 2016 - 03:47 AM.


#3 MajesticFailure

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Posted 14 May 2016 - 01:47 AM

Hi, thanks for your reply.

 

l mentioned the ATX12V1 connector in Stage (3) ;)

 

As for the POST sounds, apparently l do have a little speaker in my computer. Weird.

 

I think key to it all is that it switches on, then about 4 seconds later, switches off, then switches on and stays on. I took it to a computer shop and they believe it is a mobo error (they tried a different GPU and still no signal to any connected monitor).

 

The mobo sellers (an online retailer) have given me conditions for an RMA: First they want detailed photos of the mobo, to include the serial no., a good general aerial view and also, some good pics of the CPU plate pins. A damaged CPU plate pin would (in hindsight) have explained my problems. However, the CPU plate wasn't damaged. Really looks like it's the mobo or PSU doesn't it? Except, a faulty PSU would just abruptly switch off at random times, and perhaps stay switched off? All parts are compatible with each other, inc. the BIOS version. I think we're looking at a DOA mobo here, which isn't uncommon, but oh so inconveniencing.

 

It's true what they say, and what you're suggesting: test it outside of the box ("bread boxing"?), esp. before putting it in the box to begin with. Thing is, l'm not sure how to handle a mobo outside of the case, l fear electricity.

 

I'm now working on the info required for an RMA to be issued.

 

My message to new build PC makers: unless it's urgent (it was in my situation), only make new builds with cheap parts, until you're comfortable with what you're doing. If it's something urgent, then go with a bespoke manufacturer or just any manufacturer that is closest to your desired specs, so that you only need to make minimal additions if at all. The price difference won't be that big between a new build and a manufactured PC (at least, not in my specific instance).

 

Oh and think ahead, and buy from sellers who are likely to give you an RMA should things go wrong.

 

Thanks for your advice rqt.



#4 rqt

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Posted 14 May 2016 - 03:58 AM

The highest exposed voltage in a desktop PC (as long as you do not open up the PSU or a CRT monitor - which you should never do) is 12V DC which is no more than most electric model train sets so not likely to do you any harm. You just need to place the motherboard on a non conductive surface - I have in the past used newspaper, the motherboard cardboard box, carpet, plastic bags (not the antistatic ones). I have used switches / indicator LED's / sounder recovered from old cases. The only really delicate part of the assembly - if you're not using integrated graphics - is where the graphics card fits into the (PCI-e these days) expansion slot. The graphics card will generally stand upright with no problem, but you have to be careful to avoid the video cable putting strain on this joint.

 

The behaviour of some modern motherboards does seem a little strange at start-up - I'm putting it down to the apparent expectation of people that they can use their PC as a phone charger even when the PC is turned off. In the case of my new Gigabyte board this means that as long as I do not disconnect the mains supply from the PSU, & don't switch off the PSU using the little rocker switch on the PSU, then it starts up exactly as I would expect. But if the mains has been switched off & I start the PC I get a brief illumination on the PC front panel power LED, this then goes out for a second or two & then the PC starts up normally. At first I found this behaviour very disconcerting & thought the motherboard may be faulty.

 

I think is a often a good idea to buy motherboard, CPU & probably RAM together from the same supplier - then at least if you get an unidentified problem you can try to RMA the package & let the supplier sort it out.


Edited by rqt, 14 May 2016 - 04:00 AM.


#5 MajesticFailure

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Posted 14 May 2016 - 08:28 PM

Super idea about buying mobo, CPU and RAM from same source. Add to that list, PSU. I'll explain:

 

I bread boarded the mobo (seeing as l was extracting it from the case anyway). I had:

CPU (no cooler, no fans)
2 sticks of RAM, then all 4 sticks.
GPU
Mobo
+ power button, reset button, etc. and internal speaker that l purchased, connected to mobo


I had taken the ATX12V1 connection out and then put it back in, and this time, as it was out of the case, l managed to press harder and l believe l heard a click, or more like a snap sound.

Result: setup now powers fully on without switching off again and then on again (but this could be because no HDD / SSD / DVDRW connected, right?)

Woohoo. I connected the monitor to the GPU. Still no signal. I changed the GPU to a different PCI lane. Still no signal. Realised l hadn't connected PSU to GPU, so l connected it. Still no signal.

THEN... setup started switching off suddenly. Then l switched it on again, and it shortly thereafter switched off again. Each time it switched off, it never started again (unlike my problem in the OP, where it would start again automatically, and stay on, no problem).

Had enough, dismantled setup again. Noticed CPU was too hot to touch for more than 2 seconds. I would therefore estimate temperature to be 70-100C (can't be more accurate). Perhaps the CPU overheating was causing the PSU to shut down? Or ... perhaps because l had finally connected the ATX12V1 supply to the CPU (instead of perhaps not doing it properly when it was still in the case), the PSU was getting drained too much (note: the GPU fan kept switching off after being on, too, and l'm pretty sure the GPU fan would switch off while the power light on the case was still on).

It looks a lot like the PSU is faulty right? Should a PSU fan be on when there is power going to it and when the PSU is actually switched on? Because, when the entire setup would cut out, the PSU fan would also stop, even though all switches were still on. So, faulty PSU?

 

Note: An internal speaker that l had ordered, arrived last morning and l fitted it to my bread boarded setup. I totally cannot hear any beeps. In fact, l'm pretty sure there were never any beeps at the start of the story either. Maybe this is because the PSU *and* mobo are faulty? Bios chip #1 lights up as it should. Speaker socket is right next to it, but l get no sounds from it at all.



#6 MajesticFailure

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Posted 14 May 2016 - 08:31 PM

In other words: i don't even have a "bleeping computer", how messed up is that? :D

 

Add to the misery, the humiliation of having to press a button called "Post" to send these messages. :S (j/k)


Edited by MajesticFailure, 14 May 2016 - 10:14 PM.


#7 ranchhand_

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Posted 15 May 2016 - 11:39 AM

As you probably know, there is no single test for a mainboard. By process of elimination, you test each component until only the CPU or Mobo are left, and 99% of the time it will be the mobo. Rarely do CPUs fail.

Here is a step-by-step bench build process that will enable you to find your problem. I have used this for years in building. It is a way of testing your components before you put the entire unit together.

Good hunting!


Help Requests: If there is no reply after 3 days I remove the thread from my answer list. For further help PM me.


#8 MajesticFailure

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Posted 15 May 2016 - 04:27 PM

Thanks :) I didn't know testing PSUs was so cheap and simple. 

 

I've heard it said that the PSU is the most important component ...

 

OK i'm going into hiatus now, just working on RMA-ing. Thank you @ everybody :)



#9 Fascist Nation

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 08:04 AM

First, nice job by the responders.

 

As for the OP, so we are at the 'let's just start RMAing parts stage?'  I'm sure that will go well.  Since you did not do a minimal external build kind of a pointless rule out of any parts.  Sadly, since you did not use an authorized dealer neither the CPU nor GPU are likely covered by the 3 yr mfg. warranty.

 

Hummmmm, a 140W TDP CPU.  You are cleaning off and  reapplying new thermal compound every time you pull the heat sink fan (HSF) off and put it back on?  Wouldn't account for initial symptoms, would the latter, as would a loose HSF.

 

PSU's are important and are usually an afterthought.  But they are impossible to test except by the maker (and a few select others) who can test under load with $10,000+ equipment.  All you can do is test the power good signal (unnecessary since the PSU starts up) and idle output power.  Software apps such as HWMonitor are good diagnostic apps, but only report what some component reports.  This is often inaccurate.  A volt-ohm meter is employed to do actual testing of idle output and can be used to test under some load by getting readings off the connected harnesses.  A $30 PSU tester is of much less use. 


Edited by Fascist Nation, 16 May 2016 - 10:02 AM.


#10 MajesticFailure

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 10:53 AM

Didn't use cooler or fans in bread board setup. For one thing, didn't have a manufacturer's fan (Intel didn't give one). It could explain a lot of what was going on while breadboarding. Setup was only on for about 4 - 5 mins maximum, but yeah CPU seemed hot after resting a finger on it for more than 2 seconds. Est. temp: 70c-100c. 

 

You seem to make contradictory points, that RMA-ing is pointless, and that buying parts from eBay is pointless because you can't RMA to the manufacturer.

 

I still have something like 60 days cover on eBay so let's see if l can get this system up and running within that time. Point duly noted about only buying from official sources, and about testing PSUs with cheap equipment. Although, l'd like to see what ranchhand_ says about this. Perhaps you can take it up with him and have it out between yourselves on this thread.

 

 

Edit: yep there's a good chance the CPU got fried, lesson learnt.

 

Edit: the PC would always still start up though.


Edited by MajesticFailure, 16 May 2016 - 11:12 AM.


#11 rqt

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 11:51 AM

While I would never suggest running a CPU without a heatsink, & would not consider doing so myself (although I would run one for a very limited time with no fan connected) I would expect that your CPU would do a thermal shutdown rather than self destruct.

 

Testing a PSU with a cheap tester may not be 100% reliable / accurate but is a reasonable indicator of whether the PSU is functional - although I've always used the substitution method of testing myself.

 

I hope you manage to get it sorted.



#12 MajesticFailure

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 01:05 PM

Thanks dude.



#13 MajesticFailure

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 06:00 PM

I now have a new mobo and a new PSU.

The mobo is still the same brand, but this time the PSU is an EVGA Supernova Gold 650W completely modular PSU.
All other components are the same, as per the OP.

 

 

I have breadboarded the setup as follows:

CPU
CPU Cooler + cooler fan attached
GPU
The case's front panel leads go into the correct socket.
The PSU leads go to the main 24-pin input, the smaller 8-pin ATX12V socket near CPU, and the 6-pin GPU socket.

 

 

 

I switched it on with zero ram, got an indefinite cycle of: [3 long post beeps, then a pause]

Same with 1 RAM stick, then 2 RAM sticks.

Still no monitor signal.

 

GPU fan starts up with each POST, but switches off after approx. 30 seconds, and jolts when i eventually switch the power off using the case's front panel power button. Could this be a mere power-saving feature with the GPU, seeing as it's outputting no video?

 

 

 

I shall next try the following scenarios, doing a POST test each time:

-- Remove GPU, and start up
-- Remove both of the RAM sticks used and use the other 2 sticks
-- Replace GPU, taking care that it slots in correctly

In the meanwhile, does anybody have a prelim diagnosis? GPU bust? RAM bust? CPU bust?


Getting that feeling when you're suddenly really, really drowsy lol


Edited by MajesticFailure, 24 May 2016 - 06:08 PM.


#14 MajesticFailure

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 07:32 PM

Update:

 

-- Remove GPU, and start up
-- Remove both of the RAM sticks used and use the other 2 sticks
-- Replace GPU, taking care that it slots in correctly

 

Have all failed in solving the problem.

 

Eager for suggestions now.



#15 MajesticFailure

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 08:09 PM

I cannot find the beep codes for this mobo, how very odd.

 

The specs are here: http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/X99%20Extreme43.1/?cat=Specifications

 

Quote:

 

"- 2 x 128Mb AMI UEFI Legal BIOS with multilingual GUI support (1 x Main BIOS and 1 x Backup BIOS)
- Supports Secure Backup UEFI Technology
- ACPI 5.0 Compliant wake up events
- SMBIOS 2.7 Support
- CPU, DRAM, PCH 1.05V, PCH 1.5V, VPPM Voltage Multi-adjustment
"

 

So, l Googled for AMI UEFI Legal BIOS, and the closest match l can find is this: http://www.asrock.com/support/faq.asp?id=286

from the year 2011 :-/

 

Which is l think the only link that acknowledges a "3 long beep" code even exists. I'm certain the beeps don't actually add up to a specific amount, as l counted them beyond 8 or 9 sets of 3 long beeps, and no code has that many total beeps. Ostensibly, it cycles forever.

 

Here is what the page from the year 2011 says:

Without memory 3 long beeps 53

 

 

That is, the Debug Code is 53.

 

Anybody have a clue what is wrong?






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