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Is there anything in Linux that will work right out of the box?


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#1 dannyboy950

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 08:44 AM

So far just about every package I have tried to implement has had to have additional dependancies or some type of alteration/editing before I can get it to work.

 

That may be no problem for a seasoned user but for a total Nobb it is kind of daunting.


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#2 Rocky Bennett

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 09:27 AM

I am a novice Linux user, just picked it up less than a year ago. I have never had any problems with any Linux distro that I have installed. Everything just works right out of the box. Every piece of hardware that I own is supported without any extra work on my part, and software installation is a breeze.


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#3 mremski

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 09:31 AM

Dependencies are often tied to the complexity of the program/package.  Something like LibreOffice (MS-Office replacement) needs lots of things for support.  A simple text editor like EMACS (yes, I know it's not really "simple") will have few to no dependencies.

 

What should be true of almost any package:

  When you install something, the dependencies should be pulled down and installed with it.

 

Of course this means that wherever you are pulling the package from needs to have it's repositories in order, with all the proper dependency linkage in place.  If you start pulling source code down to build it yourself, "you" become the one that has to make sure everything is there.

Whatever package manager is on the distribution you install, pointed back at the stock repositories, should work just fine for you.

 

Programs that support plugins (FireFox, Chrome/Chromium, etc) may not pull down all the plugins, but there are usually separate packages for them (and their dependencies).

 

Hardware support may require additional effort after install, just like in Windows where you may have to load additional drivers to get the support for your devices.  Yes, Linux drivers will probably lag Windows drivers, but this is on the hw makers not releasing the full datasheets to the Linux community.


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#4 Guest_GNULINUX_*

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 09:39 AM

So far just about every package I have tried to implement has had to have additional dependancies...

That's a normal thing on "Linux"!  B)

Software Manager, Synaptic Package Manager and the Terminal (apt-get) do this automagically and they are doing a good job. I don't see any problems with it even for a "new" Linux-user?

...or some type of alteration/editing before I can get it to work.

The only time when I sometimes see this as necessary is with packages for hardware (graphics, printer...) and this only happens because they're third party packages as in not being provided for the specific Distro/OS or even hardware you are using.

You also maybe need to configure some things and download a few extra dependencies if you install packages that where intended for another Distro or DE... but which other OS can do such things?

 

My thoughts:

Most "new" Linux-users make the same conceptual error... They compare a pre-installed Windows PC with a fresh install of Linux! Just try to install Windows 7 on a newly bought Windows 10 PC... you would also be changing settings and hunting for drivers, would it be that much easier?

Are you even sure it will ever work? I think I made my point?  :)

 

Greets!



#5 dannyboy950

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 11:29 AM

Rocky Bennet is far from the average new user. He has proved that time and time again. Without a doubt he has a lot more snap useing linux than I do, I question that not at all.

 

Gnulinux is running a lot more powerfull PC than I am plus he brings up a valid point however there were other os's long in use before Win 7.8.8.1 and 10.

XP and Vista and the earlier systems worked right out of the box the only changes you would useually have to make were personal preferrences only.

 

Some of us have experience even with Pr-windows systems as well.  long lost in the fog of time lol.

 

I will admit that I may have had an unreasonable expectation of what Linux would be able to do for me.  I keep forgetting the fact that Linux is not a better version of windows but something completely different.


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#6 pcpunk

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 11:42 AM

@dannyboy950, when you start a Thread give all the details of what you are trying to do, and what you are using to do it.

 

We don't know if you are still playing with LinuxliveUSB, Lubuntu, Xfce etc.  This will help answer your questions much better. 

 

Usually all the dependencies are handled by the Software Manager, Synaptic Package Manager or even the Terminal.  Sure some things you install will require you install Dependencies, that will usually be stated, but not always.

 

Considering this you might want to stick with Mint Xfce, it should be a little easier to use than Lubuntu.


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#7 Agouti

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 11:50 AM

As already said, dependencies are normal.  Windows software have dependencies too.

...or some type of alteration/editing before I can get it to work.

Such as?  Please give us some examples.



#8 MadmanRB

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 04:04 PM

Dependencies are a common thing in debian based distros such as Ubuntu and Linux Mint. (they are also common on redhat based or redhat like distrros like openSUSE and fedora)

Instead of using binary blobs like windows does most distros use packages that are more like zip files (and some distros actually use zip style packages such as slackware)

This comes from the linux developer reluctance to use binary blobs, it is a mindset descended from the days of dial up where dependencies are broken apart from their main packages so not to overload things.

Dependencies are a double edged sword and can be problematic especially on metered internet connections.

Now there are distros that dont rely as much on dependencies such as Arch and Gentoo but those are more skilled distros not made for the newcomer.

Manjaro may be a somewhat safe haven though, its based on arch but is more catered towards the beginner but I would spend more time learning the  pros and cons of linux first.


Edited by MadmanRB, 09 May 2016 - 04:04 PM.

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#9 Condobloke

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 04:18 PM

I downloaded and installed Linux Mint 17.3 Cinnamon to a ssd last night.

 

When it booted, it had a Firefox icon, a terminal icon and a files icon in the taskbar.

 

I typed 'thunderbird' into the menus searchbox, and proceeded to fill in the details of my email account with thunderbird (i have used thunderbird for many years) (it is already installed on linux mint)

 

So....it works....straight out of the box

 

Videos play

 

There is a program there for Pics

 

It has a music player

 

It has a 'notepad" thingie

 

It connected itself to the internet

 

It has an update icon which changes color when there are updates available

 

The clock is there with the date alongside

 

The only 'input' from me was to kick thunderbird into motion...(a user name and a password)

 

SO, in a nutshell....IT WORKS. Out of the Box !


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#10 NickAu

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 04:38 PM

 

So far just about every package I have tried to implement has had to have additional dependancies or some type of alteration/editing before I can get it to work.

How exactly are you installing this software?

 

 

there were other os's long in use before Win 7.8.8.1 and 10.

XP and Vista and the earlier systems worked right out of the box the only changes you would useually have to make were personal preferrences only.

 

Other than having to install Anti virus Anti Malware MS office and every other bit of software you need, Then you need to remove all the bloat ware,  yes they work straight out of the box.

 

I have never needed to install dependencies using apt-get or the inbuilt software manager.



#11 Rocky Bennett

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 04:49 PM

I'm sorry dannyboy, but my experience matches all of the other users on this thread; Linux just seems to work perfectly out of the box for EVERYTHING that I want it to do.

 

I hope that you sort out all of your issues, but you were having issues with Windows 7 on that same hardware before you switched over to Linux, right?


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#12 Condobloke

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 06:29 PM

There is another possibility....mindset.

 

I was guilty of this myself....I approached linux as if it were complicated and necessitating an abundance of input...as if it required much grey matter exercise and hand wringing.......I was quite wrong......It is actually bog simple !

 

My son said to me   dad...keep it simpler than what you are....if you need a program/app to do something...there is every likelihood that it is already there....you dont need to go to a programs web page and download it and then figure out how to actually install it on linux.......that can be so complicated you will end up throwing the pc out the window......and he was correct !....I needed something to organise my pics...it is already there...gthumb. How did i find it ?...google...search..."native pic organiser linux mint"....

 

In your searches for "how to" and "what do i use"...etc etc.....always add linux mint to your search words

 

 

   

 

In other words....I over thought the whole situation

 

All i am using this particular pc for is to browse...including reading news pages, accessing BC, retrieving emails, playing videos, ......fairly low key use......no business use at all. I do access banking websites as well .

 

It is safe. It is secure. (be sure you have enabled the firewall ) When you think about it how could anything actually be as insecure as windows???....by their own admission msft collects info about absolutely everything ...so it begs the question why would you hold your personal info out in the open air for them to collect and disseminate in any way they see fit.

 

google search     enable firewall linux mint     (THIS source is also quite good)

On the page linked....I hit ctrl f.....which brings up the search box down the bottom....I type 'firewall' in there (it saves me having to scour the page to find it)....and the instruction is sudo ufw enable ....then your password...( i deliberately kept mine simple because it has to be entered so many times (someone else may comment about the advisability of this)....thats it...finished. Wipe the sweat from your brow !

 

I could go on and on.....but then i will be told I am rambling.....


Edited by Condobloke, 09 May 2016 - 06:32 PM.

Condobloke ...Outback Australian  fed up with Windows antics...??....LINUX IS THE ANSWER....I USE LINUX MINT 18.3  EXCLUSIVELY.

“A man travels the world in search of what he needs and returns home to find it."

It has been said that time heals all wounds. I don't agree. The wounds remain. Time - the mind, protecting its sanity - covers them with some scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone. Rose Kennedy

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#13 66Batmobile

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 07:17 PM

 

There is another possibility....mindset.

 

I was guilty of this myself....I approached linux as if it were complicated and necessitating an abundance of input...as if it required much grey matter exercise and hand wringing.......I was quite wrong......It is actually bog simple !

True enough.  By the same token, it can also be how complicated things appear based on how they are described.  Before coming accross this place and HowtoGeek, I would run a search for something and sometimes wind up with overly complicated instructions that HAL, Spock, Data, the Doctor and Sheldon Cooper would have trouble with.  Then you'd find a translation and go "Ah ha."

 

This topic is also where test driving things comes in.  I would wager a lot of people who are told they can "do everything they do in windows" sometimes full blown install without making sure their specific needs are met, and are then scared off if it doesn't pan out.

 

Was that too many pop-culture references or not enough?


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#14 dannyboy950

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 09:47 PM

I can only speak to my case I do not have access to your pc's.

Of the distro's that I have tried to use every one of them I have had problems getting to actually run.  That is 2 installs of mint 17.3 cinnamon. 2 installs of mint 17.3 Mate [live usb] lubunto [live usb] which only half of the start menu worked at all. it was suggested xfce except I do not read /write Hungarian.  The help files manual are written in Hungarian. At least it is not english.  I have not tried ubunto or kde because I can not even get them to finish downloading.

 

In my case I generally blame this on a combination of things not any one thing. My CPU that barely exceeds linux min. system requirements and my almost dial up internet speeds.

 

Of the 12 other distros I have researched on all claim they will run on 700 to 900 MGz processor, I have a 1000 Mgz processor. this does not leave much extra to play with and then it is also used up.

In my final attemps I am leaveing everything as close to pristine as I can get and see how that goes.

 

Sorry for the delay today but been a rough day for me.                 


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#15 The Feet

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 01:35 AM

​​​

​@dannyboy950

​I'm sorry to hear of your Linux problems.

​Like most others who have replied , I've never encountered them and I also have tried many distros ,

​installed , in VMs and on Live USB .... what you say about your processor may possibly be an issue

....   and you haven't said how much RAM your system has .

 

You could try one of the very lightweight Linux distros .... eg I have Lucid Puppy running on a 250 MB USB !!

The only other thing I can think of is that your downloaded ISOs may be corrupted .

Are you using server downloads or torrent ?

 

As for help manuals in Hungarian ..... now that is very odd !

 

​PS - I don't think your Linux expectations are unreasonable at all

 


Edited by The Feet, 10 May 2016 - 01:47 AM.





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