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Dual Boot Install


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#1 pcpunk

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 08:32 PM

Hey guys, I am ready to do a new install, Dual Boot Windows 7 with my current windows 7, using what I call a Windows 7 Official RAW iso.  My goal is to practice Installing with the RAW ISO File instead of the Toshiba official Recovery Disks, Installing the Drivers etc. manually.  This is because my HDD is failing but still seems to work fine for now.  Eventually will get a new drive and want to be prepared to do this without to many mistakes on new drive, and to compare the speed difference of the two Installs on this one.   

 

Recently removed much of the Bloatware to try and speed up the system, but this time would like to go this route.  I might leave a small Partition at the end also to install another OS, I'll handle that on my own, just thought I would mention for Partition observations.  Here are the other two Threads for reference.

 

http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/610613/hdd-health/

And here

http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/607975/slow-updates/

 

Hope it is okay to post this here, because the first questions are of MiniToolPartition Editor, but though it would be confusing to make two threads for one install.

 

This is where I am at now, and don't know if I'm using MiniToolPartition Editor properly.  

 

1. Created the Partition for new install, but was not sure how, or if I needed to create it as Primary?   It says it is Logical now. 

I saw the GPT/Primary Icon at the bottom Left of the Wizard after creating the Partition but did not see any other option when I was creating it.

 

2. Will the W7 installation media format as NTFS and make it Primary or do I need to go back and make it Primary now?  This should leave me with only Three Primaries so that I can still install linux at the end.

 

3. Already have the USB Install Media created.

 

Thanks pcpunk 


Edited by pcpunk, 30 April 2016 - 08:43 AM.

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#2 cat1092

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 01:05 AM

pcpunk, since this is the Windows 7 Forum, we need to limit our discussion to that OS, we'll just say, 'leave space for another OS' for now. :)

 

Like with any other OS, it's best to allow the installer create the partition(s) for Windows 7, as a System one will be needed that Mini Tool can't properly handle, as this will be your Active partition for this OS. So you can delete any Windows 7 partitions before proceeding. Normally, many Windows 7 installs won't boot from GPT partitioning (on a non-UEFI MB), while you can try, you may find it to be a waste of time & causing unneeded wear on the SSD out of the box. If the computer was designed for UEFI & GPT formatting, the old drive would had been GPT, and the Recovery partition would had loaded the OS as such. These tools are on the partition tool so that these are there for when needed (say for like creating a 2nd Data drive as GPT, which is OK). Or systems that shipped with UEFI, and one (like you did) purchases another, the drive has to be initiated. 

 

One question before I respond, is the install media a Windows 7 install DVD (or bootable ISO)? I'm a bit unclear about a what a RAW file is (so may be other assistants), it's either an ISO or not, I suppose you've tested the install media? You'll have to allow it to do the installing (including partitioning). This will be important to install the OS, and be sure to disable hibernation if automatically enabled post-install (SSD's doesn't need this). You'll need to open cmd as Administrator, then copy/paste the below code & then Enter. Hibernation is now disabled (if it was to begin with). If not, after installing drivers & updating, then perform the action to make sure it is. This in important for SSD longevity, plus it's a space saver. You can still use sleep as needed. 

 

 

 

 

powercfg –h off

 

As long as you use regular install media (one DVD or bootable USB stick of it), you're fine, just delete all of the partitions created with Mini Tool, and you'll be given the choice of how large a partition you want for Windows 7. With all of the Updates & more to come, at least 120GB will be needed, 150GB for a good cushion. And don't forget, some freespace will be needed at the end of the drive for overprovisioning (7-10%). In your case, 7% of the total formatted capacity (which is different from the advertised capacity) should be fine, for example, if you purchased a 250GB SSD, the real capacity is less, just like a HDD. This empty space is needed for the controllers to keep the SSD clean & fast. You'll see this with MIni Tool to the left of the drive, which should be installed to the OS after updating & before installing your next. You'll want to check partition alignment, on both the system & main Windows 7 partitions, before going forward. 

 

The reason why alignment is so important, just one block off will cause two writes to the SSD, rather than one, accelerating wear on the drive & potentially voiding any warranty on the drive. Checking the alignment on both of the partitions (a one time operation), will ensure all is OK. Normally it is, yet it doesn't hurt to check. 

 

One reason why to plan for everything in advance, just keep in mind that today's OS's doesn't require pre-formatting, everything that's needed is built in to the process, and for SSD's, this is critical. The OS, if Windows 7 or above, knows how to respond to a SSD install & make adjustments. 

 

Good Luck with your new install! :)

 

Oh, and don't forget to install a backup software (such as Macrium Reflect) & image your new install before adding another, should be small as a new OS. One day, that backup may be greatly needed. :thumbup2:

 

Cat


Edited by cat1092, 30 April 2016 - 01:09 AM.

Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 


#3 Agouti

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 08:48 AM

This is because my HDD is failing but still seems to work fine for now.

Then your immediate concern would be to back up everything which is important.  Have you done that?

Eventually will get a new drive and want to be prepared to do this without to many mistakes on new drive, and to compare the speed difference of the two Installs on this one.

A drive that is failing would be slower because it has to relocate data from failing sectors.  That said, why compare a failing drive with a new one?  IMHO, such a comparison makes no sense.

 

Also, if you are referring to mistakes you might make when installing Windows, there shouldn't be any if you let the installer do what it is designed to do.  Installing drivers are also pretty much automatic and similar to installing programs.

Hey guys, I am ready to do a new install, Dual Boot Windows 7 with my current windows 7, using what I call a Windows 7 Official RAW iso.

I am not familiar with dual booting Windows with Windows, so hopefully, someone else could chime in here.  I believe you have to install a boot manager which will allow you to choose which "Windows 7" you want to boot from.  Certain questions also came to mind, e.g. since you are installing Windows 7 alongside Windows 7, how would you know which Windows 7 to choose to boot from?  Which Windows license key will you be using?  For that matter, have you recorded or stored the Windows license key for the failing drive, in a safe place?

Recently removed much of the Bloatware to try and speed up the system, but this time would like to go this route.  I might leave a small Partition at the end also to install a Linux OS, I'll handle that on my own, just thought I would mention for Partition observations.  Here are the other two Threads for reference.

 

http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/610613/hdd-health/

And here

http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/607975/slow-updates/

You don't have to create an empty partition at the end of the drive.  Just leave it as unallocated space.

 

Also, I am not very fond of reading long threads.  It would be much better if you could summarize the information which you feel is relevant from those threads.

 

Now to your questions on Minitool Partition Wizard.  To begin with, partitioning is serious business.  Always backup before fooling around with your partitions.

 

With that out of the way, my own modus operandi is not to create a new partition when I want to install an operating system.  I would shrink an existing partition to create unallocated space for installing another operating system.  I would then point the installer for the new operating system to the unallocated space.  Mind you, I believe it is also possible to create the new partition as you are doing.  And yes, the Windows 7 installer should format the partition as NTFS and make it Primary.


Edited by Agouti, 30 April 2016 - 08:52 AM.


#4 pcpunk

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 08:53 AM

 

Like with any other OS, it's best to allow the installer create the partition(s) for Windows 7, as a System one will be needed that Mini Tool can't properly handle, as this will be your Active partition for this OS.

MiniTool has Option for marking as active so I'm confused now.  I guess it can be done more than one way, but you are advising me the proper or best way?

 

 

One question before I respond, is the install media a Windows 7 install DVD (or bootable ISO)? I'm a bit unclear about a what a RAW file is (so may be other assistants), it's either an ISO or not,

3. Already have the USB Install Media created.  Additional Note:  Also created DVD install media but heard that the USB will be faster, and have never used it before so wanted to give it a go.

 

@Agouti:  Agree with your comments and will try to answer soon if not now.


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#5 pcpunk

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 09:12 AM

 

Then your immediate concern would be to back up everything which is important.  Have you done that?

Yes, before and after Bloatware Cleaning.

 

A drive that is failing would be slower because it has to relocate data from failing sectors.  That said, why compare a failing drive with a new one?  IMHO, such a comparison makes no sense.

Agreed, more for the experience I guess.

 

 Installing drivers are also pretty much automatic and similar to installing programs.

This is the part I worry about.  I've tried to install drivers before and had mixed success, sometimes worked, sometimes not.  And, seems like a lot of work to go All though the devices and install each one individually, if that indeed is how it is done.

 

 I believe you have to install a boot manager which will allow you to choose which "Windows 7" you want to boot from. 

Was hoping the installer would take care of this?

 

Certain questions also came to mind, e.g. Since you are installing Windows 7 alongside Windows 7, how would you know which Windows 7 to choose to boot from?  Which Windows license key will you be using?  For that matter, have you recorded or stored the Windows license key for the failing drive, in a safe place?

Guess will just have to boot once to find out.

 

Was hoping to use the same Windows Key for both.  Yes have used your instructions to backup the keys.

 

You don't have to create an empty partition at the end of the drive.  Just leave it as unallocated space.

Right now have a 134GB Partition that is Unallocated.  I created this with MiniTool at the end of the drive, will this be fine to install to, or should I go back and Delete it?

 

Also, I am not very fond of reading long threads.  It would be much better if you could summarize the information which you feel is relevant from those threads.

Sorry thought I did summarize it, just thought to include them for good measure.

 

With that out of the way, my own modus operandi is not to create a new partition when I want to install an operating system.  Instead, I would shrink an existing partition to create unallocated space for installing another operating system.  And yes, the Windows 7 installer should format the partition as NTFS and make it Primary.

Great! this is where I am at now, and exactly what I wanted to know.

 

Thanks pcpunk


Edited by pcpunk, 30 April 2016 - 09:32 AM.

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#6 Agouti

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 10:13 AM

As I said before, I have no experience dual booting two version of Windows, far less when both OSs are the same.  However, I did some poking around and found this article: http://lifehacker.com/5126781/how-to-dual-boot-windows-7-with-xp-or-vista.  Although I can't say for sure, I imagine the procedure would be similar to how it is described in the article.

 

My own feeling is you should delete the partition and create unallocated space.  The Windows installer creates other partitions, such as Recovery and System Reserved.  If all you have is one big partition, how would the installer create the extra partitions?

 

As mentioned on another thread, I am not a lawyer, so I can't say as to the legality of using the same license key for both Windows installations.  However, legal issues aside, I think you might get away with using the same key since both Windows installs are going to be on the same machine.

 

As for drivers, it's just a matter of searching on Toshiba's site for your model computer and downloading all the drivers.  For that matter, I have an idea: since you already have Windows 7 installed (albeit an OEM install), just use something like Driver Magician Lite or Double Driver to backup all the drivers.  When you install the plain vanilla Windows 7, all you have to do is run the program again and "restore" all the drivers.  Both programs are portable, so you can run them from a USB stick.

 

All in all, this does sound like an interesting project.  Do report back on how it goes.

 

[Edit]

Since you mentioned installing Linux later on, keep in mind you should always install Windows then Linux, not the other way around.  Linux will add itself to the boot loader when another operating system is present while a Windows installer won't do that.


Edited by Agouti, 30 April 2016 - 10:26 AM.


#7 cat1092

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 03:46 AM

 

 

Like with any other OS, it's best to allow the installer create the partition(s) for Windows 7, as a System one will be needed that Mini Tool can't properly handle, as this will be your Active partition for this OS.

MiniTool has Option for marking as active so I'm confused now.  I guess it can be done more than one way, but you are advising me the proper or best way?

 

 

One question before I respond, is the install media a Windows 7 install DVD (or bootable ISO)? I'm a bit unclear about a what a RAW file is (so may be other assistants), it's either an ISO or not,

3. Already have the USB Install Media created.  Additional Note:  Also created DVD install media but heard that the USB will be faster, and have never used it before so wanted to give it a go.

 

@Agouti:  Agree with your comments and will try to answer soon if not now.

 

 

pcpunk, there's no need with a new drive to pre-partition, Windows 7 can handle this nicely, all you need to input is the size of your partition, and add 100MB to that, because a System partition will be created. 

 

Best thing you can do is delete the created partitions & let the installer do the job. We've been through this before. While Mini Tool Partition Wizard is a great tool to have, it's not meant for installing modern Windows with. It's for managing partitions after the install. 

 

 

 

I guess it can be done more than one way, but you are advising me the proper or best way?

 

Letting the OS do the installing is the way I've been doing for years, and has never failed me, as long as there were no issues with the computer's hardware. Plus being an SSD, which you've not mentioned so far, Windows 7 needs to be able to be in total control of the install, to ensure that the partition offset is proper. When creating the partition, it'll let you know that additional partitions will be needed, and you'll have to agree to proceed, it has to create the Active partition, and why you have to add 100MB to the size you want to compensate. For example, of you want it to be 100GB, you have to key in 102500MB, the extra 100MB will be for the System one. You cannot manage that, only the installer can, and it has to be right. 

 

The only advice I give about these things are those which I've performed myself & know works, I don't work by speculation during an OS install. 

 

And don't forget, you'll need to leave about 7% of unformatted space at the far end of the drive (Samsung Magician, if installed will recommend 10% & a good app to have), though normally 7% is the recommended amount. Unless you purchase a drive that has extra space, though unseen & unusable by the consumer, this is inbuilt overprovisioning, usually about 10% of the drive's capacity. Once installed, updated & checking your alignment with Mini Tool Partition Wizard, on each partition beginning with the left, install Samsung Magician, and from there, you'll have one click optimization choices. I choose the more capacity one, because it shrinks the page file, which gives you more space & better performance (forcing your RAM to do it's job). The RAPID app may or may not help, you can try & see, on some of my systems it's great, on others, buggy. 

 

Though it's recommended to have 4GB or more RAM for RAPID, because the 850 versions, compared to the 840, uses more RAM for RAPID. Though using more RAM is not a waste, as long as you have enough resources to run your software & browsers, there's nothing wrong with using 70-80% of your installed RAM, that's what it's for, plus the onboard graphics chip requires some that you have no control over. I run & prefer GSkill RAM myself (on most of my computers), there's usually an equivalent module or kit for every need & you can even contact their Customer service (be sure to provide your Speccy link in your sig), via email & they'll provide you with the best match for your computer. Right now, RAM is very close to 2011 lows, even DDR4 RAM is low in cost. But don't expect this to last long, there's just a lot of inventory at the moment, the price can increase by 50% or more tomorrow if supply chain tightens. 

 

Amazon also has a brand called A-Tech, of which I've purchased some DDR2 kits, and though these are refurbished & rebranded kits, are backed by a Lifetime warranty, and A-Tech has been around for awhile. Here's the links to both the 4GB & 8GB kits, the 4GB kit is very reasonable in cost. As long as yours isn't soldered in, should do the trick. Seriously, I recommend at least adding one more GB of RAM for 64 bit Windows, in part due to the hardware reserves some for itself, like the graphics mentioned above. 

 

http://www.amazon.com/PC2-6400-Modules-200-pin-Genuine--Tech/dp/B00C53CY2C/ref=sr_1_13?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1462091125&sr=1-13&keywords=a-tech+memory&refinements=p_n_feature_four_browse-bin%3A14329121

 

The 8GB notebook kit is listed below. This is about the best price you'll find for 8GB of DDR2 notebook RAM, their desktop RAM of the same type is much lower, for one PC, I purchased two of the 4GB kits for less than $60. 

 

http://www.amazon.com/PC2-6400-Modules-200-pin-Genuine--Tech/dp/B00C538J3U/ref=sr_1_9?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1462091125&sr=1-9&keywords=a-tech+memory&refinements=p_n_feature_four_browse-bin%3A14329121

 

Though you may not want to sink that much cash into RAM for the notebook, provided the link to show even it's dropping in price. Just a few months back, at $199 was the lowest cost choice. 

 

Good Luck with the install, you've been given good advise, now you're on your own as to what to do with it. :)

 

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#8 pcpunk

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 10:00 AM

 

pcpunk, there's no need with a new drive to pre-partition, Windows 7 can handle this nicely, all you need to input is the size of your partition, and add 100MB to that, because a System partition will be created. 

Installing to current Drive not new one, Dual Boot W7 OEM with W7 "Plain Vanilla" to get some experience with installing "plain vanilla Windows 7" as Agouti called it.  I want to be fully prepared when I get my new drive.  Want to understand first hand what the differences will be with these two types of Installs.  The Current OEM install is getting better/faster, and perhaps would be fine once there is a new Drive installed, as this one must be getting slow.  And to be truthful, there was some pretty cool gadgets that came with the Tosh OEM Install, but what to keep and Remove is just mind boggling.  But all in all, it's all about performance, and as I'm learning from you guys there is a lot of junk in there that's robbing performance.

 

@Agouti, Will surely report back after all the help you guys have provided!


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#9 pcpunk

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 07:31 PM

Okay project W7W7LMC17.1 is on it's way.  

 

Got the Dual Boot Winodws 7 done.  Have two entries in the Boot Manager, the first being the most recent install.  Both say Windows 7 of course for now.  

 

My biggest issue is the Graphics are a little off.  Installed all the drivers automatically with DriverMajician Software suggested by "Agouti".  Did this with the drivers from the Original Windows 7 Toshiba OEM Install, for the same pc.  I forced install all of the Toshiba drivers because DriverMajician asked me if I wanted to do so, or keep the M.S. Drivers, but not sure if it all worked.  All drivers in the Device Manager look fine but don't really see any Toshiba ones, they all seem to be M.S.? 

 

My question is, what do I look at in "Device Manager" to compare to the Toshiba site or my other Tosh Install.  Is it "Display adapters" > "Standard VGA Graphics Adapter"?  Because the Driver Title is not the same as seen in Device Manager.

 

Other than the graphics all seems well enough.  A little slow on opening and closing System Explorer, hoping this is also the Graphics problem.  Browser Graphics and the Panel also look a little Cheap if that makes sense.

 

Another issue is that there are no Programs in the "Programs and Features", well only one that I installed, "Adobe Flash Player"  Even after installing IE11 it does not appear?

 

Just installed Google Chrome also, and it does show in the "Programs and Features" but not sure why IE don't?

 

Now need to do some Updates but still unclear as to the best way to set for initial install.  Last time I set to Accept only Important Updates, is this correct?  Seems to have worked well with other install, except for missing out on some .NET Framework stuff that I saw and installed.  

 

Updates also set to "Check for Updates but let me choose whether to download and Install them" This is the best way to do this right?

 

Thanks again guys this is all going well so far, pcpunk


Edited by pcpunk, 02 May 2016 - 07:34 PM.

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#10 pcpunk

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 08:07 PM

  • Optional Updates:  I see this one for the Graphics that could be a solution for the Graphics?
ATI Technologies Inc. - Display - ATI Mobility Radeon 4100
 
And:  
 
Logitech - Other hardware - USB Input Device (Logitech Download Assistant)
 
 
  • Also in Optional Updates have the .NET Framework Updates that I'm thinking should be installed first? 
Microsoft .NET Framework 4.5.2 for Windows 7 x64-based Systems (KB2901983)
 
Microsoft .NET Framework 4.6.1 for Windows 7 for x64 (KB3102433)
 
Interesting this Software is called DriverMajician, then at Sourceforge it is called DriverBackup and the actual Folder Download is called DrvBK, short for DriverBackup I guess.  Got good reviews but the directions are not very good for someone like me.
file:///F:/Toshiba%20Driver%20Backup/English/index_file/Restore.htm
 

Thanks, pcpunk


Edited by pcpunk, 02 May 2016 - 10:45 PM.

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#11 Agouti

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 10:56 AM

If you boot into your "Toshiba" Windows 7, is the same graphic driver installed there?  What graphic driver do you have in your "Toshiba" Windows 7?

 

Also, Internet Explorer will not show up in Programs and Features because it part of Windows.  Driver Magician and DriverBackup! isn't the same program either.  As you can see, they are two different programs.  Both programs essentially do the same thing, i.e. back up drivers, but I don't recall mentioning DriverBackup! anywhere.



#12 pcpunk

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 12:35 PM

Here is the  "Toshiba" Windows 7 with the correct Dirver;

 

I have some drivers from the Toshiba site also, but there are many there to choose from.  Although, think I got the right Video Driver now.  What I don't understand is what I choose to install them, "Update" Or "Uninstall" then Browse to the Driver needed.

 

mqewm6Q.png

 

 

Here is the Vanilla Windows 7 Install Driver.

 

 

j3LMdJ5.png

 

Also, I have a Toshiba Disk that the Original owner made that says Apps and Drivers.  The Problem here is that there are many things on this DVD, all with Numbers on them but no indication of what they are.  Here is the first number on the list that I looked up TC00091500E: http://www.windowsprocess.com/en/p/tc00091500e-exe/

 

TAXh5lJ.png

 

And of course the DrvBK Driver Backups, the list goes on further.  I wish I knew why this Software did not work, surely my mistake somewhere. 

 

ihGuVm6.png
 
Sorry for so much information, just wanted to make sure all is covered, thanks pcpunk!
 
All is working pretty well though and once the drivers are in will be goodtogo!  Boot-Time is better than the Tosh OEM.

Edited by pcpunk, 03 May 2016 - 12:38 PM.

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#13 pcpunk

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 12:42 PM

Also tried to Download Double Driver but the site was having too much traffic of something today.  Would be nice to get them all installed from the Toshiba OEM Install.

 

Maybe will try this download again, in case I got it wrong: Driver Magician Lite


Edited by pcpunk, 03 May 2016 - 12:45 PM.

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eps2.4_m4ster-s1ave.aes_pcpunk_leavemehere

 


#14 pcpunk

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 11:05 AM

If you boot into your "Toshiba" Windows 7, is the same graphic driver installed there?  What graphic driver do you have in your "Toshiba" Windows 7?

 

Also, Internet Explorer will not show up in Programs and Features because it part of Windows.  Driver Magician and DriverBackup! isn't the same program either.  As you can see, they are two different programs.  Both programs essentially do the same thing, i.e. back up drivers, but I don't recall mentioning DriverBackup! anywhere.

Agouti, clearly I got something wrong there, I was using DriverBackup, but it did not work for me.  I did try Driver Magician and that seemed to backup everything with more simplicity.  Can't say for sure because I was not able to Restore with it, this part of my Drive is not in good shape so this Vanilla install failed yesterday.  This is fine because it taught me most of what I wanted to know, and Toshiba Install still works.

 

No need for any more comments at this time, thanks to all who helped!

 

pcpunk


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Created by Mike_Walsh

 

KDE, Ruler of all Distro's

eps2.4_m4ster-s1ave.aes_pcpunk_leavemehere

 


#15 Agouti

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 12:36 PM

Personally, I won't try this kind of experiment on a hard drive that is already failing.  I am glad you got some hands-on experience though.  When you get your new hard drive, we'll have another go.






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