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New PC for Photo Editing & Gaming.


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#1 Vaca01

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Posted 16 April 2016 - 01:58 PM

Hello everyone,

 

 

So i am a photographer and desperately in need of a new pc. I do play games from time to time but not to an extreme level. Aside from photos and games i do a little of video editing but currently not a priority. And silence is kind of important for me. People keeps recommending X99 is better than current Skylake systems generally so i am looking forward towards X99, (also i think its cheaper to get 64gb ram in X99 than skylake)

 

So the build i had in mind is something like this: (and as i never built a pc before i am looking for custom pc builders in uk or cyprus)

 

Cpu: i7 5820k

Gpu: Gtx 980 ti (People says i have to go with Nvidia because Adobe doesn't supports AMD)

Ram: Either 32gb or 64 gb kit depending on the budget but intention to make it 64gb eventually.

Storage: M.2 drive for boot, 1x 500gb ssd or intel card ssd card things, 2x 3gb WD black in raid 1 and 128gb Samsung Evo SSd for scratch disk

PSU: Anything +750watt with +80 Gold rating and up (so many choices)

Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster ZX or XZR

 

Things i haven't decided yet:

 

Case: if i am going full tower: In Win 904 or Phanteks something Primo. if mid tower Phanteks something Luxe.

I am a sucker for cool looking, brushed aluminium cases.

 

Mother Board: Again, so many choices and i don't understand whole lot of this techy stuff. May be a standard MSI or Asus x99 motherboard, something like Asus x99A, as i can't see too much reasoning spending a fortune here.

 

CPU Cooling: As much as i want a cool looking liquid cooling setup i don't think i am going do the maintenance regularly or correctly. Prebuild liquid coolers looks cool like Corsair H105i but scared from leak problems. Might settle with a good fan based cooling system though.

 

Fans: ??

 

 

Extras, working conditions and future plans:

 

Cool RGB led strips

Flashy Ram sticks (ones that slowly pulses light)

 

 

Possibly a 2. GPU in next 3 years.

 

I will use the pc with a 4k monitor + 1x or 2x 1080p monitors.

I will probably OC the cpu.

 

 

Please let me know what you think and/or if i missed anything. Sorry for the long post ^_^

 



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#2 Drillingmachine

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Posted 17 April 2016 - 06:52 AM

CPU: i7-5820K is much better choice than Skylake, yes.

GPU: GPU computing software is generally very bad. GPU's offer lots of processing power but software that really makes it count is quite rare (outside games of course). Adobe software is no exception here. Some Adobe software want Cuda support and while only Nvidia supports it, some Adobe software runs better with Nvidia altough AMD cards have lot more processing power and Nvidia GTX series is built purely for gaming.

However because GPU computing on software side is years behind hardware, there is no really need for fast GPU on those tasks (GTX series is purely for gaming as already said). So something like GTX950 is good enough and much cheaper. Also GTx980Ti price is very high considering architechture is already 2 years and manufacturing tech 4 years old, so it's impossible to recommend for any use. SLI setups always lose against single card setups when talking about relialibity so better to buy better single GPU card after 3 years.

Memory: 64GB is good.

Storage: M.2 SSD's are still on development. Overheating crap if you ask me. Consider MLC drive for scratch disk.

Case: Personal preference mostly.

MB: Unless doing heavy overclocking, those basic boards are OK as even cheapest LGA2011-3 boards are very high quality compared to cheapest LGA1151 boards.

CPU Cooling: I stick with big air coolers rather than liquid stuff and recommend same.


Edited by Drillingmachine, 17 April 2016 - 06:52 AM.


#3 Ram4x4

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 07:23 AM

I'm a hobbiest photographer too that likes to game a little.

 

Sorry, this is going to be a long post!

 

I recently built a 5820K system myself and so far I like it a lot.

 

For photo and video editing you want as many CPU cores as you can afford.  Since you only game a little, that 5820K is no slouch.  No, it won't eek out every little frame rate like a quad core with a higher clock rate will, but with that GTX 980, you won't care, it will game plenty well.  It also overclocks decently too if you care about that.  Unless you are gaming on 4K resolution with games that really tax a system, you could step down to a GTX 960 or 970 and do plenty well.  I went with a 960 and it runs the games I play at full settings without a hiccup, and typically at 80+ FPS.  Then again, I'm only running a pair of 22" monitors at 1080 resolution.  If you have big monitors at 4K resolutions, then yeah, the 980 or above might be what you need/want.

 

X99 is a robust chipset.  I purchased an ASRock X99 Extreme 4 mobo on newegg for $189 with a $20 mail-in rebate.  Loving it so far.  No need for any of the "gaming" labelled motherboards with extra crap you don't need or want.  They also like to hype the capacitors and throw around all sorts technical jargon to make them sound super.  Unless you have a need for some specific technology on a board, even the lower end boards perform just as well as an expensive one.  In fact, if you read up on mobo testing, you'll find a real-world performance difference of only + or - 2-3%...between brands, expensive and cheap, etc and that's within the margin of error, so statistically, there is no difference.

 

Personally I'm a fan of ASRock boards, but I know that's a dodge/chevy/ford argument, so whatever brand you like will most likely be fine.

 

I agree on the m.2 SSD, they're relatively new and have some known overheating issues.  If you really want SSD based boot drive and a separate SSD scratch disk, I'd go with a pair of the Samsung EVO drives.  The 850 EVOs are excellent drives. 

 

I assume your pair of 3GB drives in RAID1 is your back up/storage array?  Personally, I'd recommend a NAS for storing your photos and then follow that up with a more permanent solution for stuff you want to keep forever.  Why the need for another serial based 500GB drive too?

 

I'd go for a pair of Samsung EVO disks (boot and scratch), a NAS for storage and M-DISC capable Blu-ray burner for permanent storage/backup and forget about the RAID array and the other 500GB serial drive.  Use that money you'd have spent on that and put it into a nice NAS.

 

You can get a simple, single disk NAS for as little as $129, or you can spend up to whatever you want in terms of features, RAID ability and capacity.  A NAS has a lot of advantages over internal disks in your system. 

 

I personally have a WD CLOUD 4GB NAS ($149).  It's a single disk system, but it's addressable over my entire network, wirelessly or hard cabled, and also has ability to share out folders so I can access them over the internet from anywhere in the world I have a connection.  The share is secure, so only I can get into it.  Handy for showing photos to others from anywhere.

 

If you want something more reliable than a single disk set up, you can get a multi-disk NAS that has built in RAID capability too, along with other features, like built-in web servers, etc.  All depends on what you want to spend.  Many of the nicer ones are just the NAS box and you purchase and install your own disks, so you have control over total capacity.  Do some googling on them and check them out.

 

As for permanent storage, M-DISC is the new thing.  Well, it's been out since around 2010, but it replaces "standard" DVD and Blu-ray media with a new technology.  Regular disks use a reflective layer on the media covered with an organic dye.  Your burner burns through the dye to record data.  The problem is, that dye, being organic, continues to degrade over time.  We were told back in the day that recordable disks will last 100 years, but we've found that to not be true.  The dye is very susceptible to sunlight and now life expectancy for these regular disks is only 3-5 years if left laying around on desks, etc.  Maybe 10-15 years if stored in a dark place.

 

M-DISC replaces the organic dye and reflective layer with a mineral based substrate.  You literally etch the data in stone.  The substrate is impervious to sunlight, etc.  They claim these disks will last 1000 years, and it's only because of the plastic covering of the disk will eventually oxidize.  The U.S. Navy and library of congress have tested these disks and they are tough.  They're switching/switched over to them for their long term storage.  Google it and read up on it.  pretty amazing stuff.

 

M-DISC does require a special burner/drive as the laser has to be more powerful and a different wave length to burn the disks, but they aren't terribly more expensive than regular drives.  I paid $89 for mine.  The M-DISC media is pricier than regular media too, but are currently on-par with the per-megabyte cost of a cheap hard drive, so it's worth it.  I bought a 5-pack of 100GB M-DISC media for $62.  These are burn once only disks, but knowing my photos and data are good for generations to come, it's worth it to me.

 

I do my photo editing, then save the raw and the post-produced photos to my NAS.  Once I build up enough photos, I then burn them to an M-DISC for permanent storage.

 

Forget water cooling if you won't be doing any serious overclocking.  Definitely forget those crappy little all-in-on water coolers.  Those things are real pet-peeve of mine.  They're selling you a system that performs, at best as good as a decent air cooler (usually worse), charging you more for it and adding the risk of a leak and adding more noise. (I'm really going to preach on this as I hate to see people waste money on something they don't need or thinking it will magically do something).

 

The thing to remember is this:  No matter what cooling system you use, in the end you have to dissipate the heat to the surrounding air (keep that in mind).

 

All water does is provide a medium to move the heat to some other place for you to then dissipate it to the air.  Water systems do that via the radiator and fans.  The crappy AIO systems fail because they have a small radiator (so you can mount it inside your case) that is usually much smaller than the heat sink of a good air cooler, so what does that mean?  They have to install high-speed fans to move more air through the smaller radiator to dissipate the heat.  That means they don't cool as well (usually), and are a lot noisier.

 

There are two ways to increase your heat dissipation:  1) a larger radiator/heatsink (more surface area), or 2)move more air through it.  Option 1 is limited by space and option 2 can mean lots of noise.  The trick is to manage both so you have good cooling and low noise. 

 

Heatsink/fan coolers are limited by space inside the case and around the motherboard, plus the heat coming off the heatsink is discharged into the case itself, so you have to have case fans to get the heat out of the case.  Fortunately, many of the modern systems have plenty of surface area on the heatsinks so that high-speed noisy fans aren't needed and it doesn't take a wind tunnel to remove the heat from the case.  2 or 3 case fans can usually do the trick nicely.

 

Water cooling, if done right, is for someone who is generating lots of heat through extreme overclocking that an air cooled system can't handle.  It should have the biggest radiator you can get and proper amount of air flow.  A good water cooling system is also very expensive (a $500 system is a good start, but can cost even more). 

 

I personally like the Noctua brand heat sinks and fans.  No, they aren't pretty (an ugly tan and brown color), but Noctua fans are probably some of the best on the market and their mounting system is very sturdy.  I have the Noctua NH-12S heatsink/fan cooler (this is the 120mm size fan on a slim heatsink).  It is dead-silent and keeps my 5820K at around 35-37C under load (at stock 3.3GHZ speeds).  I overclocked it once to 4.4GHZ  and played a game for an hour and the temp never went over 44C.  Not bad at all.

 

I am a fan of full sized cases simply for ease of clean installs and case fan options.  Cases, like mobos, don't have to be the huge, expensive ones, but these are personal preference things.  I bought a lower-end full size case (the Be-Quiet Base 600).  It is on the smaller end of what is considered a full size case, but is bigger than a mid tower for sure.  I paid $89 for it and love it.  It comes with a pair of case fans pre-installed and I have not had to add any other case fans to cool my system.  My whole system is nearly 100% silent and stays very cool.


Edited by Ram4x4, 18 April 2016 - 07:24 AM.


#4 Drillingmachine

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 07:38 AM

Ram4x4: Good text but I still cannot understand why Samsung 850 Evo is so popular. Samsung 840 and 840 Evo drives were supposed to be good, but some wise men (including me) pointed out that they are overpriced because many MLC drives are even cheaper. We know what happened.

 

Now, Samsung 850 Evo also uses TLC. And because MLC drives are at same price range, I see no reason to be Samsung's beta tester.



#5 Ram4x4

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 09:17 AM

The price differences are minimal.

 

The Samsung drives consistantly perform very well.

 

If your intent is to squeeze every last dollar, then perhaps a few dollars here or there matter, but when you are sinking $1200+ into components, a couple dollars here or there is meaningless.



#6 Drillingmachine

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 09:54 AM

The price differences are minimal.

 

The Samsung drives consistantly perform very well.

 

If your intent is to squeeze every last dollar, then perhaps a few dollars here or there matter, but when you are sinking $1200+ into components, a couple dollars here or there is meaningless.

 

Exactly and because MLC>TLC, why go with worse when money is not issue? Samsung's performance with 840 and 840 Evo was way below HDD performance.



#7 jonuk76

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 02:00 PM

 

The price differences are minimal.

 

The Samsung drives consistantly perform very well.

 

If your intent is to squeeze every last dollar, then perhaps a few dollars here or there matter, but when you are sinking $1200+ into components, a couple dollars here or there is meaningless.

 

Exactly and because MLC>TLC, why go with worse when money is not issue? Samsung's performance with 840 and 840 Evo was way below HDD performance.

 

 

Eh?  There's no comparison between a HDD and an 840 Evo.


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#8 jonuk76

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 02:06 PM

Case: The InWin 904 looks like an exercise in style over substance IMO and has a bizarre layout (like the front panel USB ports in the side, at the bottom of the case).  Cooling performance is nothing special and it also looks very unforgiving for a first time build (wiring has to be just so - glass has NO give at all).  The Phanteks case looks better, but it's an expensive case.

 

The NAS route for bulk storage sounds good.  If silence is important having no spinning disks inside the case can help.  In my system, currently my 2 HDD's are the noisiest components, and the only things I can hear normally.  That is a Fractal Define R5 with stock fans, a large Thermalright air cooler and Arctic Cooling GPU cooler.


Edited by jonuk76, 18 April 2016 - 02:08 PM.

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#9 Drillingmachine

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 02:44 PM

 

 

The price differences are minimal.

 

The Samsung drives consistantly perform very well.

 

If your intent is to squeeze every last dollar, then perhaps a few dollars here or there matter, but when you are sinking $1200+ into components, a couple dollars here or there is meaningless.

 

Exactly and because MLC>TLC, why go with worse when money is not issue? Samsung's performance with 840 and 840 Evo was way below HDD performance.

 

 

Eh?  There's no comparison between a HDD and an 840 Evo.

 

 

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Editorial/Samsung-840-840-EVO-susceptible-flash-read-speed-degradation-over-time

 

Slower than HDD, yes: http://www.pcper.com/files/imagecache/article_max_width/review/2014-09-19/840%20EVO%20512%20test%20hdtach-2-.png

 

That problem is only partially "fixed" (It cannot be fixed because problem is TLC NAND) on 840 Evo and not fixed at all on 840. So much about warranties. So I still would stay clear of TLC drives like 850 Evo.

 

 

The NAS route for bulk storage sounds good.  If silence is important having no spinning disks inside the case can help.  In my system, currently my 2 HDD's are the noisiest components, and the only things I can hear normally.  That is a Fractal Define R5 with stock fans, a large Thermalright air cooler and Arctic Cooling GPU cooler.

 

That just depends on HDD's. I had 5 HDD's, three "noisy", two "silent". Any of those "noisy" HDD's were easilly noisiest components on my system. Left only 2 "silent" ones and no problem anymore. Too bad there is no way telling if HDD is noisy without testing it first. Even if HDD model is considered "silent", some units may still be noisy.



#10 Ram4x4

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 05:05 PM

 

 

 

The price differences are minimal.

 

The Samsung drives consistantly perform very well.

 

If your intent is to squeeze every last dollar, then perhaps a few dollars here or there matter, but when you are sinking $1200+ into components, a couple dollars here or there is meaningless.

 

Exactly and because MLC>TLC, why go with worse when money is not issue? Samsung's performance with 840 and 840 Evo was way below HDD performance.

 

 

Eh?  There's no comparison between a HDD and an 840 Evo.

 

 

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Editorial/Samsung-840-840-EVO-susceptible-flash-read-speed-degradation-over-time

 

Slower than HDD, yes: http://www.pcper.com/files/imagecache/article_max_width/review/2014-09-19/840%20EVO%20512%20test%20hdtach-2-.png

 

That problem is only partially "fixed" (It cannot be fixed because problem is TLC NAND) on 840 Evo and not fixed at all on 840. So much about warranties. So I still would stay clear of TLC drives like 850 Evo.

 

 

The NAS route for bulk storage sounds good.  If silence is important having no spinning disks inside the case can help.  In my system, currently my 2 HDD's are the noisiest components, and the only things I can hear normally.  That is a Fractal Define R5 with stock fans, a large Thermalright air cooler and Arctic Cooling GPU cooler.

 

That just depends on HDD's. I had 5 HDD's, three "noisy", two "silent". Any of those "noisy" HDD's were easilly noisiest components on my system. Left only 2 "silent" ones and no problem anymore. Too bad there is no way telling if HDD is noisy without testing it first. Even if HDD model is considered "silent", some units may still be noisy.

 

 

 

Calling BS on that one.  I have an 850 EVO and this thing screams.  I've used 840's and 850's in other systems without issue (and they're running great still, several years after build.  I even have a Toshiba 128GB that's 4-5 years old and it still works fine, but doesn't bench as fast as the Samsung, across the board.

 

The only time I've ever seen an SSD run at HDD performance was when there were issues in the system, but in all cases it was not the drive that was the problem.



#11 Vaca01

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 05:46 PM

Guys how this NAS thng works ?

 

Does it uses my internet speed ?

 

At amazon uk i found some cheap ones and if i snap WD Reds in them will it offer the same performance as they are being in the case ?

 

Also about the case, style is kind of important, since i am spending tons of money and redesigning the office with my girlfriend. We agreed on all glass, brushed alu, dark brushed alu and minimalist looking stuff



#12 Drillingmachine

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 07:01 AM

Calling BS on that one.  I have an 850 EVO and this thing screams.  I've used 840's and 850's in other systems without issue (and they're running great still, several years after build.  I even have a Toshiba 128GB that's 4-5 years old and it still works fine, but doesn't bench as fast as the Samsung, across the board.

 

The only time I've ever seen an SSD run at HDD performance was when there were issues in the system, but in all cases it was not the drive that was the problem.

 

 

You are calling BS something even Samsung itself admits to be true? And yes, 840 Evo drives also worked fine until problems arise. MLC NAND on SSD's has proven to be reliable. Samsung already has two failed TLC experiments (840 and 840 Evo) so I see absolutely no reason to buy their experimental stuff. This Samsung fan club is somewhat funny. If 840 Evo was made by any other company than Samsung, most people would never again buy their products. But because it was Samsung's, people make same mistakes over and over again.

 

http://techreport.com/review/27824/crucial-bx100-and-mx200-solid-state-drives-reviewed/7

 

Given the issues plaguing some of Samsung's TLC-based SSDs, I'd take the MX200 over any EVO right now.

 

My words exactly.



#13 Drillingmachine

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 07:06 AM

Guys how this NAS thng works ?

 

Does it uses my internet speed ?

 

At amazon uk i found some cheap ones and if i snap WD Reds in them will it offer the same performance as they are being in the case ?

 

Also about the case, style is kind of important, since i am spending tons of money and redesigning the office with my girlfriend. We agreed on all glass, brushed alu, dark brushed alu and minimalist looking stuff

 

NAS essentially mean that you connect NAS box (that has HDD's inside) to your network connector, some kind of router recommended unless you have two network connectors available (Dual LAN is very rare today).

 

It does not use your internet speed (assuming your internet speed is lower than network card that is usually the case).

 

NAS solutions are usually for storage, not speed purposes. Gigabit ethernet theoretically limits speed to 125MB/s, but when using mostly storage purposes, that is "fast enough".



#14 Ram4x4

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 03:53 PM

 

Calling BS on that one.  I have an 850 EVO and this thing screams.  I've used 840's and 850's in other systems without issue (and they're running great still, several years after build.  I even have a Toshiba 128GB that's 4-5 years old and it still works fine, but doesn't bench as fast as the Samsung, across the board.

 

The only time I've ever seen an SSD run at HDD performance was when there were issues in the system, but in all cases it was not the drive that was the problem.

 

 

You are calling BS something even Samsung itself admits to be true? And yes, 840 Evo drives also worked fine until problems arise. MLC NAND on SSD's has proven to be reliable. Samsung already has two failed TLC experiments (840 and 840 Evo) so I see absolutely no reason to buy their experimental stuff. This Samsung fan club is somewhat funny. If 840 Evo was made by any other company than Samsung, most people would never again buy their products. But because it was Samsung's, people make same mistakes over and over again.

 

http://techreport.com/review/27824/crucial-bx100-and-mx200-solid-state-drives-reviewed/7

 

Given the issues plaguing some of Samsung's TLC-based SSDs, I'd take the MX200 over any EVO right now.

 

My words exactly.

 

 

I don't have an 840, I have 850's and they have no issues.



#15 Ram4x4

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 04:01 PM

Guys how this NAS thng works ?

 

Does it uses my internet speed ?

 

At amazon uk i found some cheap ones and if i snap WD Reds in them will it offer the same performance as they are being in the case ?

 

Also about the case, style is kind of important, since i am spending tons of money and redesigning the office with my girlfriend. We agreed on all glass, brushed alu, dark brushed alu and minimalist looking stuff

 

 

NAS stands for "Network Addressable Storage".  The hardware device is attached to your network, usually to your router and can be accessed by any computer on your network.

 

Since it is inside your network, it doesn't rely on your internet speed, but rather whatever speed your network runs at.  Typically 100Mb, unless you are running gigabit ethernet, then it would be faster.  If you access it wirelessly from a laptop, then it will be restricted to whatever speed your wireless connection is to your router.

 

Generally speaking, the transfer speeds aren't quite as a fast as a HDD that is connected internally in your case, but the point is large amounts of storage with easy access anywhere on your network.

 

Additionally, many of the NAS boxes other than the very basic, single disk types also provide other features and services, such as a built-in web server, for example.  You don't have to use those features, but it would be possible to host a website from one if you were so inclined.

 

The biggest attraction to multi-disk NAS boxes are the ability to utilize hardware RAID set ups for fault tolerance.






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