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SBS 2011 Backup


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#1 Jackleg1

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 03:36 PM

We recently migrated from SBS 2003 server to SBS 2011 server. On the SBS 2003 server we were running ntbackup to a NAS storage device as one way of backing up our data (4TB total available disk space on server) successfully. The NAS device has since failed and the new server running SBS 2011 has 7 - 2TB SATA drives giving us approximately 11.1TB of usable disk space. We are currently using approximately 3.2TB of available disk space. I am having trouble getting the Backup Utility with SBS 2011 to work properly. When running the backup wizard, I assign our external hard drive (Toshiba Canvio 5 TB) as the destination. As soon as I do this, the drive basically disappears. I have not found a way to access the files on the drive after setting it as destination. I understand that this is how the backup on SBS 2011 works and I am okay with that. Secondly when I go to format the drive, the format fails. I am assuming that it is failing due to Bytes per second on the external drive. When I run "fsutil fsinfo ntfsinfo e:" from the command prompt I get the following information:

 

C:\Users\fsutil fsinfo ntfsinfo f:

NTFS Volume Serial Number :       0x06d29bd4d29bc679
Version :                         3.1
Number Sectors :                  0x00000002462ccfff
Total Clusters :                  0x0000000048c599ff
Free Clusters  :                  0x0000000047a1edaf
Total Reserved :                  0x0000000000002800
Bytes Per Sector  :               512
Bytes Per Physical Sector :       4096
Bytes Per Cluster :               4096
Bytes Per FileRecord Segment    : 1024
Clusters Per FileRecord Segment : 0
Mft Valid Data Length :           0x000000000aa80000
Mft Start Lcn  :                  0x00000000000c0000
Mft2 Start Lcn :                  0x0000000000000002
Mft Zone Start :                  0x00000000000caa80
Mft Zone End   :                  0x00000000000d7280
 
While the Bytes Per Sector is 512 which I believe is acceptable, the Physical Bytes Per Sector is 4096 which may be causing the problems. These issues are keeping me from using the built-in backup utility which is what I really want to use as my 2nd means of backing up our data. The external drive is not listed at:
 
 
but I don't think it is compatible with the backup utility. I would appreciate any information from someone who is successfully running backups from SBS 2011 using a USB External Hard Drive as the destination for  the backups. I do not want to use 3rd party software to backup the data but am willing to purchase hardware necessary to make the SBS 2011 backup utility work. Thanks in advance for any insight.


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#2 Sneakycyber

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 08:00 PM

Are you using Windows Server backup? This is due to the 4k sector size. It appears Western digital has a tool to reformat some of their external drives to 512e, also their Western digital Red line in an external enclosure can be formated to the 512e standard. See this thread at spiceworks https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/501223-windows-server-backup-and-4k-sector-hard-drives

Edited by Sneakycyber, 19 February 2016 - 08:00 PM.

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#3 Jackleg1

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 02:14 PM

How do I backup to Seagate BlackArmor NAS device? I have tried to map a network drive (Z:\\Backups). I have also tried creating a new network share. When I use the Windows Server Backup utility, nothing but the physical drives attached to the server show up in the "Destination Drive" list. There has to be an easy way to backup to a NAS using the SBS 2011/Server 2008 backup utilities. I am stumped.



#4 JohnnyJammer

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 04:57 PM

Like sneaky said mate, when ever using windows backup, the disks whether they be shared or not need to be formatted to 512 unit sizes.

If you do it directly do a disk it will start but then lock up, same for the network.

 

So to see what size they are go to elevated CMD prompt and type fsutil fsinfo ntfsinfo E:, change the drive letter to that of the disk drive.

 

Now it should show something like below.

Bytes Per Sector  :               512
Bytes Per Physical Sector :       512
Bytes Per Cluster :               4096
Bytes Per FileRecord Segment    : 1024

See where is says cluster per sector, thats what it needs to be and yours would be 4096.


Edited by JohnnyJammer, 31 March 2016 - 05:08 PM.


#5 JohnnyJammer

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 05:14 PM

How do I backup to Seagate BlackArmor NAS device? I have tried to map a network drive (Z:\\Backups). I have also tried creating a new network share. When I use the Windows Server Backup utility, nothing but the physical drives attached to the server show up in the "Destination Drive" list. There has to be an easy way to backup to a NAS using the SBS 2011/Server 2008 backup utilities. I am stumped.

Do you need just the files or the whole server? You might find the issue being that VHD files have to use 512 but i think if you used vmware vconveter would back up the physical to virtual, this way you could always fire up the server on any old machine with vmware on it, disable the nic and then pull some files off? Cheap effective way but not bullet proof or recommended in a work enviroment.

 

Actually this might be of use mate https://www.veeam.com/blog/announcing-veeam-endpoint-backup-free.html

I use their products for replicating victuals etc but this might be of use.


Edited by JohnnyJammer, 31 March 2016 - 05:17 PM.


#6 Jackleg1

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 06:03 PM

I am actually past the point of trying to use the external hard drive that has 4095 bytes per sector. I have replaced a drive on a Seagate BlackArmor NAS device and I am attempting to perform my secondary backups to this device. The backup utility in SBS 2011/Server 2008 will not display it as a destination drive when running the backup wizard. So I used the wbadmin tool and ran the command: wbadmin start backup -user:username -password:password -include:c:,d:,e: -backupTarget:\\SERVER\SHARE -quiet" This threw out yet another error as follows:

 

"Retrieving volume information...
This will back up volume DATAPART1(D:),OS(C:) to \\SEAGATE\backup.
Volumes larger than 2088958 megabytes cannot be protected." 

 

I was going to use this command in a batch file and schedule it as a task but apparently MS, in all its wisdom, has decided that they don't want Server 2008R2 and up backed up to a NAS device. I am just going to have to use a 3rd party software to backup to the NAS.



#7 JohnnyJammer

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 07:02 PM

Thats because windows NT backup cannot natively back up to larger than 2 terabytes mate using 512 cluster size.

have you tried using iSCSI, create a iSCSI volume on the NAS and then use the iSCSI initiator on the server to create that as a drive.

 

Honestly try the Veeam, i just downloaded it then to see what that FREE backup is like because i never thought they where going to support physical servers.

 

NOTE:That command doesnt need to be in batch, it can be run straight from taskschd.msc


Edited by JohnnyJammer, 31 March 2016 - 07:03 PM.


#8 Jackleg1

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 07:06 PM

Thanks. I will try the iSCSI and take a look at the Veeam next week and let you know.



#9 Jackleg1

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 08:09 PM

I have 8.2TB of usable space on my NAS. I have followed your instruction and used the iSCSI initiator on the Server. When I initialized the newly created disk, it split it into 2 partitions (2048GB/6348GB). Is there a way around this to where it can be one partition? I can make this work but would rather have 1 partition of 8396GB.



#10 JohnnyJammer

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 10:26 PM

mmm well did you format with NTFS and make the cluster size 4096? or remove the 2 terabyet one and see if you can expand the 6 terabyte one mate


Edited by JohnnyJammer, 31 March 2016 - 10:27 PM.


#11 Jackleg1

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 09:28 AM

I was able to convert the disk from MBR to GPT and this allowed for 1 partition at 8.2 TB and the NT Backup wizard now sees it as a "destination drive". Thank you so much for your help Jammer. It has been invaluable.



#12 JohnnyJammer

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 05:11 PM

No worries mate, from memory MBR disks can only be 2 terabyte in size. Then you need to use GPT



#13 Jackleg1

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 08:55 AM

So I was finally able to get the NAS device configured as a "Virtual" physical drive on the server. I scheduled the backup to run for C: Drive (200 GB) and D: Drive (10.7 TB). The backup of the C: Drive was successful but the D: Drive backup failed with error "Volumes larger than 2088958 MB cannot be protected. I now understand that this is due to MS backing up to VHD container that is limited to 2 TB. From the research I have done, it is impossible for me to backup my data the way I want to. I will now attempt to find a good 3rd party backup software. Any suggestions?



#14 JohnnyJammer

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 05:36 PM

Honestly i love Veeam mate, best solution that practically does everything but its targeted towards victuals.

I can restore sql DB and transaction logs so easily and also emails, files, IIS application pools you name it.

 

i would recommend Shadow protect for physical servers though mate, you can recover in like 15 minutes from a disaster.

A final note: Never and i mean ever skimp on backup tools because the cost of downtime will out strip any savings made by not paying for something decent.



#15 Sneakycyber

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 06:21 PM

I use Shadow Protect on one of our client servers and love it. They back up to a Drobo 5n on nightly. Shadow protect also has the ability to recover to VM and test the backup by booting the physical server from the backup image.

Edited by Sneakycyber, 07 April 2016 - 06:22 PM.

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