Jump to content


 


Register a free account to unlock additional features at BleepingComputer.com
Welcome to BleepingComputer, a free community where people like yourself come together to discuss and learn how to use their computers. Using the site is easy and fun. As a guest, you can browse and view the various discussions in the forums, but can not create a new topic or reply to an existing one unless you are logged in. Other benefits of registering an account are subscribing to topics and forums, creating a blog, and having no ads shown anywhere on the site.


Click here to Register a free account now! or read our Welcome Guide to learn how to use this site.

Photo

"When it comes to Windows 10 privacy, don't trust amateur analysts", via ZDNet


  • Please log in to reply
96 replies to this topic

#1 Aura

Aura

    Bleepin' Special Ops


  • Malware Response Team
  • 19,697 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:04:28 PM

Posted 11 February 2016 - 08:25 AM

Gordon F. Kelly of Forbes is at it again, whipping up a frenzy over Windows 10. This time he claims to have found SHOCKING EVIDENCE that Microsoft's telemetry is collecting STAGGERING amounts of data from Windows 10 users.

Microsoft has built an entirely new telemetry system for its 'Windows as a Service' engineering model. In Windows 10, you can dial data collection back almost to zero, but you can't turn it off completely. Here's why.

Sadly, what Mr. Kelly's post* proves is how very, very little he understands about modern computing or networking. Seriously, his article is pure gibberish, technically. But more than 100,000 people have read it so far, and apparently they believe Mr. Kelly.


Source: http://www.zdnet.com/article/when-it-comes-to-windows-10-privacy-dont-trust-amateur-analysts/

Cringing at the guy who performed the "analysis", and laughing at Gordon F. Kelly. Day after day, it looks like Forbes is becoming a "clickbait" site attracting users with provocative headlines and articles that are totally empty of content, and credibility.

In the end, here we go again, tons of people speaking crap about Microsoft and Windows 10, yet none of them understand anything about it (they just say and believe what they want to believe). That makes me laugh everytime.

animinionsmalltext.gif
unite_blue.png
Security Administrator | Sysnative Windows Update Senior Analyst | Malware Hunter | @SecurityAura
My timezone UTC-05:00 (East. Coast). If I didn't reply to you within 48 hours, please send me a PM.


BC AdBot (Login to Remove)

 


#2 MadmanRB

MadmanRB

    Spoon!!!!


  • Members
  • 3,367 posts
  • ONLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:No time for that when there is evil afoot!
  • Local time:04:28 PM

Posted 11 February 2016 - 12:26 PM

Still its Ed Bott, Microsofts employee of the year at this point


You know you want me baby!

Proud Linux user and dual booter.

Proud Vivaldi user.

8spxh0-6.png


#3 Aura

Aura

    Bleepin' Special Ops

  • Topic Starter

  • Malware Response Team
  • 19,697 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:04:28 PM

Posted 11 February 2016 - 12:32 PM

Doesn't change the right that what he's saying is right though.

animinionsmalltext.gif
unite_blue.png
Security Administrator | Sysnative Windows Update Senior Analyst | Malware Hunter | @SecurityAura
My timezone UTC-05:00 (East. Coast). If I didn't reply to you within 48 hours, please send me a PM.


#4 MadmanRB

MadmanRB

    Spoon!!!!


  • Members
  • 3,367 posts
  • ONLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:No time for that when there is evil afoot!
  • Local time:04:28 PM

Posted 11 February 2016 - 12:35 PM

Eh well evern if you discount forbes, there are plenty of other websites citing the privacy concerns of windows 10.

You cant deny they are valid concerns in any case.


You know you want me baby!

Proud Linux user and dual booter.

Proud Vivaldi user.

8spxh0-6.png


#5 Aura

Aura

    Bleepin' Special Ops

  • Topic Starter

  • Malware Response Team
  • 19,697 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:04:28 PM

Posted 11 February 2016 - 12:37 PM

They can have their privacy concerns if they want, but from what I've seen, most of them are either exaggerated, or the users offended don't understand a word of what they're saying. Just for example, there's only a few people here that actually knows what telemetry is, and that telemetry isn't spying at all. The others think that telemetry is bad, telemetry is spying, telemetry allows Microsoft to see what porn video I'm watching before going to bed, etc.

animinionsmalltext.gif
unite_blue.png
Security Administrator | Sysnative Windows Update Senior Analyst | Malware Hunter | @SecurityAura
My timezone UTC-05:00 (East. Coast). If I didn't reply to you within 48 hours, please send me a PM.


#6 MadmanRB

MadmanRB

    Spoon!!!!


  • Members
  • 3,367 posts
  • ONLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:No time for that when there is evil afoot!
  • Local time:04:28 PM

Posted 11 February 2016 - 12:41 PM

Yeah sure it isnt, just like there most definitely isnt a picture of Washington on the American dollar bill... thats preposterous, its clearly Warren G Harding!

Or thats not a maple leaf on the Canadian flag, its a giant pot leaf!

 

Look it is kind of clear that Telemetry isnt exactly the hearkening of angels, it is suspicious no matter how you slice it.


Edited by MadmanRB, 11 February 2016 - 12:49 PM.

You know you want me baby!

Proud Linux user and dual booter.

Proud Vivaldi user.

8spxh0-6.png


#7 Aura

Aura

    Bleepin' Special Ops

  • Topic Starter

  • Malware Response Team
  • 19,697 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:04:28 PM

Posted 11 February 2016 - 12:58 PM

Look it is kind of clear that Telemetry isnt exactly the hearkening of angels, it is suspicious no matter how you slice it.


Then why don't users treat every single company that uses telemetry (like 90% of them) the same way they treat Microsoft for it?

animinionsmalltext.gif
unite_blue.png
Security Administrator | Sysnative Windows Update Senior Analyst | Malware Hunter | @SecurityAura
My timezone UTC-05:00 (East. Coast). If I didn't reply to you within 48 hours, please send me a PM.


#8 MadmanRB

MadmanRB

    Spoon!!!!


  • Members
  • 3,367 posts
  • ONLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:No time for that when there is evil afoot!
  • Local time:04:28 PM

Posted 11 February 2016 - 01:04 PM

Well if this is say an android device, no one uses them to do the same thing they do with desktops.

For most the desktop is a safe haven and let the mobile space do as it wishes.

Its not like everyone is aware of the privacy issues with google, apple at least where mobile is concerned.

On the desktop, we all know google does data collection but most people who are aware of it either ignore it or use services like duckduckgo.

But this is an entire OS, and the most used one at that.

Its not like everyone is aware of linux or can afford a Mac thus why I think everyone is going after Microsoft.


You know you want me baby!

Proud Linux user and dual booter.

Proud Vivaldi user.

8spxh0-6.png


#9 britechguy

britechguy

    Been there, done that, got the T-shirt


  • Moderator
  • 9,905 posts
  • ONLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Staunton, VA
  • Local time:04:28 PM

Posted 11 February 2016 - 01:16 PM

MadManRB,

 

         The problem with your theory is that everybody, and I do mean everybody (including most, if not all Linux distros), have had telemetry related to system health/performance as a feature for, well, I can't even say how long now.

 

         Most of what's being said with regard to Microsoft telemetry is grossly exaggerated.  I actually monitor my incoming and outgoing traffic with Glasswire, and the amount of outgoing traffic is minuscule compared to incoming and the proportion of that outgoing that's going to Microsoft is a tiny part of that minuscule amount.  I have pretty much all of the "big privacy" settings set to off/private, but system health telemetry is set to full.

 

         It is not hard for anyone who's interested to actually test this stuff out for themselves, but they don't.  There is an entire cadre of Windows 10 and Microsoft haters who truly have not the slightest factual underpinning for their positions.  But, that fact simply isn't gaining any traction in the press.  It's not click-bait.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.  Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

       ~ Mark Twain

 

 

 

              

 


#10 MadmanRB

MadmanRB

    Spoon!!!!


  • Members
  • 3,367 posts
  • ONLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:No time for that when there is evil afoot!
  • Local time:04:28 PM

Posted 11 February 2016 - 01:23 PM

Well yes all OS's in the end use some form of it, but what its used for is the difference maker.

In linux its mainly used for error reporting same as OSX.

In windows 10 however it does seem a little more dubious especially with advertisements being embedded into the start menu.


You know you want me baby!

Proud Linux user and dual booter.

Proud Vivaldi user.

8spxh0-6.png


#11 RolandJS

RolandJS

  • Members
  • 4,552 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Austin TX metro area
  • Local time:03:28 PM

Posted 11 February 2016 - 01:29 PM

"...I actually monitor my incoming and outgoing traffic with Glasswire.."  britechguy

Hey friend!  Can you help me with the settings for Glasswire to do what you do? 


"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee."  -- Ben Franklin revisited.

http://collegecafe.fr.yuku.com/forums/45/Computer-Technologies/

Backup, backup, backup! -- Lady Fitzgerald (w7forums)

Clone or Image often! Backup... -- RockE (WSL)


#12 rp88

rp88

  • Members
  • 3,082 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Local time:09:28 PM

Posted 11 February 2016 - 02:35 PM

What this matter about telemetry proves is that making something mandatory makes people far angrier about it than they would be if they could turn it off, and be absolutely sure it was completely off.


Telemetry can be, effectively, anything. Most of it will be harmless data about when crashes occured and that kind of thing, but some of it could technically be things like "the name of the file john downloaded at 19:32 local time tuesday the 8th", whether it ever is or not hasn't been proven or disproven. IF telemetry is reporting things like the sites someone visited then this data is, with almost 100% certainty, only ever seen by machine, there is no reason ms would want to have a person look over it, but technically they could have a person look at what had been collected.

If ms had given people the option to fully turn off telemetry (and be sure it was utterly off), they would be satisfied, and most wouldn't bother turning it off anyway. Thereby microsoft could get the telemetry data they want, which definitely includes technical reports useful for spotting bugs although may perhaps include other stuff too, and there would be no controversy as anyone who didn't like it could just be told "fine, turn it off for your machine, now what are you complaining about". But in line with their other recent actions ms is too keen on making things mandatory, of trying to make a shoe that fits everyone whether they like it or not. I've said it before but, if ms had just respected choice they could have avoided all this controversy and still got the telemetry they wanted from all but a small number of people.

Edited by rp88, 11 February 2016 - 02:39 PM.

Back on this site, for a while anyway, been so busy the last year.

My systems:2 laptops, intel i3 processors, windows 8.1 installed on the hard-drive and linux mint 17.3 MATE installed to USB

#13 britechguy

britechguy

    Been there, done that, got the T-shirt


  • Moderator
  • 9,905 posts
  • ONLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Staunton, VA
  • Local time:04:28 PM

Posted 11 February 2016 - 02:48 PM

"...I actually monitor my incoming and outgoing traffic with Glasswire.."  britechguy

Hey friend!  Can you help me with the settings for Glasswire to do what you do? 

 

Roland,

 

           You should be able to do what I'm doing out of the box.  On the main Glasswire tab look for the "Usage" tab.  It allows you to view usage in a number of permutations, and that's where I'm getting my information from.  You can set the period of view to day, week, or month and the way the report is structured to "All," by Apps, or by Traffic.  You can then isolate by incoming and outgoing, incoming only, or outgoing only.  This is all done with the click of various buttons.  Glasswire compiles all this data no matter whether you ever happen to look at it or not.

 

Brian


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.  Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

       ~ Mark Twain

 

 

 

              

 


#14 britechguy

britechguy

    Been there, done that, got the T-shirt


  • Moderator
  • 9,905 posts
  • ONLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Staunton, VA
  • Local time:04:28 PM

Posted 11 February 2016 - 02:52 PM

If ms had given people the option to fully turn off telemetry (and be sure it was utterly off), they would be satisfied, and most wouldn't bother turning it off anyway. Thereby microsoft could get the telemetry data they want, which definitely includes technical reports useful for spotting bugs although may perhaps include other stuff too, and there would be no controversy as anyone who didn't like it could just be told "fine, turn it off for your machine, now what are you complaining about". But in line with their other recent actions ms is too keen on making things mandatory, of trying to make a shoe that fits everyone whether they like it or not. I've said it before but, if ms had just respected choice they could have avoided all this controversy and still got the telemetry they wanted from all but a small number of people.


Good luck with ever seeing that happen again, from anyone. The way system improvements are now made is so heavily dependent upon telemetry that it is never going away, and individuals are not going to be given the choice about system information that the owner (yes, owner, you don't own your OS) of a given piece of software deems necessary to maintain and improve it.

It's a fool's errand to believe otherwise. Anyone who wants this kind of setup has to go way back before Windows 7 and make certain that they don't have an internet connection at all. If you, for any you, can operate and are willing to operate in that environment then more power to you.

Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.  Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

       ~ Mark Twain

 

 

 

              

 


#15 britechguy

britechguy

    Been there, done that, got the T-shirt


  • Moderator
  • 9,905 posts
  • ONLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Staunton, VA
  • Local time:04:28 PM

Posted 11 February 2016 - 03:05 PM

Well yes all OS's in the end use some form of it, but what its used for is the difference maker.
In linux its mainly used for error reporting same as OSX.
In windows 10 however it does seem a little more dubious especially with advertisements being embedded into the start menu.


I have no doubt that ads may be embedded into the start menu if you don't take the time to tweak your settings. I've read the license and service agreements in great depth, and virtually all of the data collection beyond error reporting and similar comes about from use of the services.

 

I have never had an ad, not a single one, in either the Insider previews or the general release of Windows 10 because I bothered to take a few minutes to go through my settings and adjust them to my liking.  If you turn off:

 

1.  In "Cortana and search settings," the setting to let Cortana remind you blah blah (in other words, Cortana as a service) and Include Web Search Results.

2.  In same, click the link regarding what Cortana knows about you in the cloud, and clear it if you ever had her on (I never did, deselected her at upgrade)

3.  In same, Click "Other Privacy Settings" link and have the actual Privacy Settings Dialog come up.

4.  In Privacy settings dialog, click each pane and spend the time you need to look at the various bits and decide how you'd like them set.  If you want "as private as you can get" then universally "off" covers it.  If you're doing "universally off" then ticking through the panes takes far less than 10 minutes.

 

I don't get why people believe that any OS is going to come with default settings that they simply must accept and like.  The first thing I do when I get a new OS or OS upgrade is go through system settings if they matter to me.  The people they do matter to most should be the ones least surprised that this is a necessity, not an option, to get things set up the way you want.

 

One of the things in the Privacy Settings, General Pane, item number one is:  "Let apps use my advertising ID for experiences across apps (turning this off will reset your id)".  Do this two minutes into your setup and you'll most likely never see an ad.  I haven't and I've been using Win10 on this machine since October, I think.  It might be September.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.  Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

       ~ Mark Twain

 

 

 

              

 





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users