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Advertizeing is it even legal.


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#1 dannyboy950

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 04:54 PM

One of the things I have not seen in any of the discussions on privacy and advertiseing and the collection of information to do the same. Is whether or not Microsoft or any other company actually has a legal right to do so.
 
 
Now I am shure  every company in the country will say yes however at least in Texas there actually is no law, rule or regulation that any company can even advertize. Nevermind collect information to phacilitate the same. That said there also is no law that says they can not either. A possible oversite or deliberate I do not know. A grey area none the less.
 
However there are laws,rules and regulations in place for what and how they handle that collected information.
 
 
I belong to a number of protection and advocates groups and this is something a lot of members have been looking into.  I only have access to the TEXAS State Law library.  So far 6 other states do not also have any laws in place for this either.
 
 
If your state does please provide the statute # and which state.  I will relay that information to our committee.

Edited by Queen-Evie, 25 December 2015 - 10:15 PM.
moved to Speak Easy since this encompasses advertising across the board and is not limited to Windows 10

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#2 Aura

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 07:02 PM

What do you mean exactly? Where do you see advertising in Windows 10? I don't see any of it on my system at least.

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#3 britechguy

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 07:43 PM

Nor do I.  Also, if you sign the EULA, you do agree to allow some targeted advertising if you use the Microsoft Services.  I saw nothing similar for Windows 10 (the OS) itself [but I could have forgotten something].

 

In any case I haven't seen a single ad within Windows 10 that aren't a part of browsing the web, which is a different issue altogether.  Since the first item in General Privacy settings allows you to turn off the advertising ID associated with your Microsoft account and disallow its use it's mighty easy to shut down what little advertising that might creep in on the OS.  Like I've said, I've seen none.

 

Also, as a basic principle of law, if something is not explicitly forbidden or limited in some way it is permissible.  Hence the deep truth in the old saw, "There oughta be a law!!," that recognizes when there isn't a law then <insert action here> is not within the purview of the government.  (Let's not get into common law, that's its own can of worms and not really applicable here).


Edited by britechguy, 25 December 2015 - 07:46 PM.

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#4 dannyboy950

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 08:30 PM

Do you really, really think all of this collection of information that is being done these days is really to improve the users experience using the system?

Once companies decided that they could make money off of the internet it has quickly gone to hell and back in a hand cart.
I was not referring just to on the computer. We are constantly bombarded by advertizeing. From the time you wake up until you go to sleep. Your newspaper; television; magazines; radio; bill boards; your cell phone just about anything you can see or hear a message on.

Selling stuff has taken over the world. The collection of all this information is fed into tremendous data bases that predict trends which are then used to develop marketing schemes to fit those trends.

Sorry I am getting off track here so I will stop for now.

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#5 britechguy

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 08:56 PM

Do you really, really think all of this collection of information that is being done these days is really to improve the users experience using the system?
.
.
.
Selling stuff has taken over the world. The collection of all this information is fed into tremendous data bases that predict trends which are then used to develop marketing schemes to fit those trends.


'Twas ever thus, technology has just rapidly accelerated this trend (as it has almost all others, too). 

Your point about legality, though, is easily dismissed from a number of simple legal principles. If it's not explicitly regulated in some way it's outside the purview of the law. If you electronically or otherwise consent to terms that allow some person or entity to do something that involves you, and that is not illegal, and that was presented in writing you haven't a leg to stand on unless said agreement contains something that can't be legally enforced.  While the old saw, "Verbal agreements aren't worth the paper they're written on," is absolutely true the same cannot be extended to written agreements presented via electronic means.

 

How I feel about this is utterly disjoint from what is legal and is completely irrelevant in regard to the specifics I chose to address.

 

My personal sentiments are probably far, far more similar to yours than you imagine.


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#6 Aura

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 08:57 PM

Do you really, really think all of this collection of information that is being done these days is really to improve the users experience using the system?


I do. Collect of information and advertising aren't the same thing.

Once companies decided that they could make money off of the internet it has quickly gone to hell and back in a hand cart. I was not referring just to on the computer. We are constantly bombarded by advertizeing. From the time you wake up until you go to sleep. Your newspaper; television; magazines; radio; bill boards; your cell phone just about anything you can see or hear a message on.


Alright, so if this thread is about this, why is it in the Windows 10 Discussion section? I'll ask a Moderator to move it in The Speak Easy, or a more appropriate section.

Selling stuff has taken over the world. The collection of all this information is fed into tremendous data bases that predict trends which are then used to develop marketing schemes to fit those trends.


There's a science behind that you know.

Anyway, it's obvious that this thread isn't Windows 10 related, requesting it to be moved in a more appropriate section.

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#7 dannyboy950

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 09:33 PM

I put this thread here because of all the descussions on the invasion of privacy and collecting of telemetry data.  The underlying reson is to compile these data bases to feed the marketing industry. It is very relevant to those discussions for good or bad.

 

For example compileing data of what food I like to eat,where I like to eat it and how often or my favorite color or what car I drive, how often I buy a new one.

Improves the operation of my PC exactly how????????

 

For 5 years I worked for a company that compiled a lot of this data and they developed the algorithims that created the trends and sold that information to other companies. I know a little bit about what I speak of.


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#8 britechguy

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 09:33 PM

I concur that this discussion, while perhaps having Windows 10 as its launching point for the OP, is not in any way really directly tied to Windows 10.

 

It's a philosophical and legal discussion and the concerns expressed are prevalent and in no way limited to any single operating system.

 

I also agree with you, Aura, that very little of the telemetry collected by Microsoft from the OS itself is related to things other than keeping an eye on how Windows 10 is actually behaving "in the wild" and trying to improve the product.  The volume's not huge, either, based on Glasswire reports.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.  Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

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#9 britechguy

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 09:37 PM

I put this thread here because of all the descussions on the invasion of privacy and collecting of telemetry data.  The underlying reson is to compile these data bases to feed the marketing industry. It is very relevant to those discussions for good or bad.

 

Er, no.  You have no basis for your assertion regarding underlying reasons, particularly in reference to the operating system, Windows 10, as opposed to the Microsoft Services, where collection of information for many purposes, one of which is targeted advertising, is openly stated.

 

It is tiresome to have so many make assertions that they have no way of backing up.  Speculation is not fact.  Available evidence based upon user experiences with Windows 10, in isolation (as many of us use it), suggest it's not much different than earlier versions of Windows but is simply the next generation.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.  Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

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#10 Rocky Bennett

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 05:46 AM

I live in The United States and YES it is 100% legal to advertise in the United States. Unless you are trying to say something that you are not saying, then why would there be any problem or concern. And I agree with Brian, this is more or less a philosophical issue that is in no way limited to Microsoft or any one operating system. You might want to check out what Apple and Google does, it is way worse.


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#11 dannyboy950

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 09:27 AM

Apparently I chose the wrong header you are fixateing on ads themseleves and I meant the whole process involved to formulate advertiseng. The whole sale collection of peoples data ,choices and preferences to sell products.

 

The whole underlying topic in windows 10 discussion is the collection of people private data with or without their permission. Just like they had some GOD given right to do so. Basically their attitude that they can do so with impunity.

 

I can not speak for GOD but I did point out that their actually were no laws in TEXAS one way or the other. Without out some law in place there is no hope of regulation or control.  GOD FORBID I should suggest that people think for themselves and not just listen to the in or hip crowd or anyone else.

 

I have said my piece which was my right to do so. I do not insist that everybody else agree with me.

All of those discussions are just idle speculation until some one actually captuers enough of that telemetry data and analyses it.


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#12 Rocky Bennett

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 03:00 PM

Again, as I said in my previous post, I live in the United States. I am free to use the internet or not. And because I am a human being, with all of the foibles that that encompasses, I am free to look up porn or Korn or Bourne or anything else that comes into my mind. I am also free not to look up anything. Why would targeted advertising that uses my previous searches be against any law. It is both ethical and legal. If I am stupid enough to look up "how to dispose of a dead body after I kill someone," then of course any one can use that against me. The internet is free for us to use and abuse, but I don't own the infrastructure that hosts it. So of course big companies like Apple and Google are going to harvest information and sell IT. WHO CARES!!!! Use the internet wisely.


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#13 britechguy

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 03:57 PM

Rocky,

 

       While I can't go quite as far as you do, as I do think there are limits as to what should be "collectible" about what one does in the privacy of one's home, your point is still well taken.

 

        I tend to view the internet as today's rough equivalent of what telephone systems were in their infancy.  In the early days it was not at all well-regulated with regard to what could or could not be obtained by wiretapping but as it became obvious how that could be abused both by private entities and the government it became completely illegal to do so without a warrant.  There are certain "wild west" elements to (and in) cyberspace that I think are far from being ironed out in any final legal form.  It's always been this way when revolutionary technologies debut; it takes decades for laws to be made and extensions from existing law to be applied in any consistent manner.  I actually share some of dannyboy950's concerns about what is currently legal and believe it should not be so.

 

        The above being said, that data collection and data mining via cyberspace is absolutely legal in most jurisdictions is a well-known fact.  One has to conform one's actions based upon what is, not what one wishes were.  I can absolutely hate what's legal but I'm not going to complain about something from a legal standpoint that is legal.  When these issues come up in various legislatures, whether it be in my state or in Congress, I'll do my best to voice my opinion to my representatives about my concerns.  Even then, as an adult I know that my concerns are not the only ones and in the end the concerns of others may be considered more important.  That's the nature of living in a representative democracy where conflicting interests must be accounted for in law.

 

Brian


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Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.  Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

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#14 Rocky Bennett

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 04:07 PM

Brian,

Your response is well thought and very fair. I actually worded my opinion in such a way as to exaggerate certain aspects, but over all I do agree with your stance. I did mention one little thing that I don't think that your post commented on and that is ethics.

 

Of course there are certain things that are legal but are not ethical. And some things that are down right insulting. Example, lets say that a family member has died, my Father for example. After my Father's death my Sister and I begin emailing each other regarding funeral plans. Even without reading entire emails, Microsoft can harvest certain bits of data and start spamming my Sister and me with ads from various funeral homes. Legal, maybe. Ethical, definitely not.

 

We are living in an age when everyone is testing the boundaries of electronic devices and communications.

 

Rocky Bennett


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#15 Norseman143

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 05:23 PM

The only thing I have seen so far,is they wanted me to try Office

 

It really isn't advertising though. And I only saw it once

 

I have had 10 since it was released and haven't seen any advertising from Windows






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