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Can I roll back a brand newie W10 to W7 ?


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#1 jargos

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 09:50 PM

Hi all. Lots of interesting threads lately - hope to get the chance to comment soon. In the meantime, I need a bit of advice.

 

I want to buy one of my kids a new lappie for Christmas / birthday. He hates W10 nearly as much as I do. Please see attached link, and I would appreciate any help on the following;

 

https://www.jbhifi.com.au/computers-tablets/laptops/hp/hp-pavilion-15-ac186tx-15-laptop/841927/

 

- It comes loaded with W10. Can it be rolled back to W7, and if so, is it a simple process ? Any links ?

 

- The kid is really into gaming at the mo' and he said to me - "It's got to have a good video card". Does the video card on this one look good, real good, or what ? (the specs are totally meaningless to me).

 

- I've really got him into Linux - he has a desktop account on my Linux machine, so I think he intends to daul boot the new one.

 

Any help appreciated. Thanks.

 

PS - didn't really know which page to put this in - it could have been W10, W7, gaming, Linux .. in the end, this seemed the most suitable.


Linux Mint 17.2 Cinnamon on older, Pentium 4 desktop.

Win 7 on Medion Akoya i3 laptop


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#2 JohnC_21

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 10:14 PM

If the computer came installed with Windows 10 then no you cannot roll back to Windows 7. If you want Windows 7 you will need to purchase a license.

 

As far as graphics go a laptop, unless it is specifically designed as a gaming platform, will never be a great gaming platform. It all depends on what kinds of games he likes. Some games don't require a powerful card while others do.

 

See this page for your graphics chipset. As you can see it is fairly low on the scale. Here is a low end card that costs about $120 and scores in the high 3000s.

 

 



#3 jargos

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 05:27 AM

If the computer came installed with Windows 10 then no you cannot roll back to Windows 7. If you want Windows 7 you will need to purchase a license.

 

As far as graphics go a laptop, unless it is specifically designed as a gaming platform, will never be a great gaming platform. It all depends on what kinds of games he likes. Some games don't require a powerful card while others do.

 

See this page for your graphics chipset. As you can see it is fairly low on the scale. Here is a low end card that costs about $120 and scores in the high 3000s.

 

 

Hi JohnC thanks for the info.

 

Definitely want W7 so it rules this one out. Actually, I just had a look on eBay, and surprise surprise, plenty of good, new laptops with W7. So I'm having a close look at some of those.

 

About the graphics chipset, noted. I will get the boy to have a real good look at it all.


Linux Mint 17.2 Cinnamon on older, Pentium 4 desktop.

Win 7 on Medion Akoya i3 laptop


#4 Platypus

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 05:48 AM

It may no longer be relevant if you can source a suitable system with Windows 7, but someone who purchases a system with Windows 10 Pro does have downgrade rights to use Windows 7 Professional on it up to the end of the Windows 7 support cycle (2020). The process is not particularly simple as it will be up to the user to source installation media and if necessary drivers, which the OEM will likely not provide natively for a Windows 10 model. The documentation is typically not easy to wade through either:

 

https://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/licensing/sblicensing/Pages/downgrade_rights.aspx#fbid=516zDuN-nQ6

 

http://download.microsoft.com/download/6/8/9/68964284-864d-4a6d-aed9-f2c1f8f23e14/Downgrade_Rights.pdf


Edited by Platypus, 10 December 2015 - 05:50 AM.

Top 5 things that never get done:

1.


#5 jargos

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 06:25 AM

It may no longer be relevant if you can source a suitable system with Windows 7, but someone who purchases a system with Windows 10 Pro does have downgrade rights to use Windows 7 Professional on it up to the end of the Windows 7 support cycle (2020). The process is not particularly simple as it will be up to the user to source installation media and if necessary drivers, which the OEM will likely not provide natively for a Windows 10 model. The documentation is typically not easy to wade through either:

 

https://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/licensing/sblicensing/Pages/downgrade_rights.aspx#fbid=516zDuN-nQ6

 

http://download.microsoft.com/download/6/8/9/68964284-864d-4a6d-aed9-f2c1f8f23e14/Downgrade_Rights.pdf

Thank you for the effort in pointing this out.

Yes, it looks not particularly simple, and for a dummy like moi, positively hard.

I am finding though, some really good stuff on eBay with W7 on it.


Linux Mint 17.2 Cinnamon on older, Pentium 4 desktop.

Win 7 on Medion Akoya i3 laptop


#6 rp88

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 06:56 PM

Post #1
One problem you need to be aware of is that some windows 10 machines might have a locked "secure boot" system in their UEFI. Since windows 8 systems have had this feature which prevents any OS other than the supplied one botting UNLESS the user changes a few settings to turn secure boot off.


The problem is that on windows 10 it is now allowed for manufacturer's to make system wher the user cannot turn off secure boot, I don't know if any manufactuers have done this but they can do it. You should make sure to very carefully check the hardware you intend to buy to ensure that secureboot can be turned off, test it in the shop, restart into the recovery environment by holding "shift" when you restart, then go to the UEFI settings and see if you can turn secure boot off in their, if you can't don't buy that kind of machine, as it is unlikely you'll be able to get anything other than the supplied OS to run on it.

Edited by rp88, 10 December 2015 - 06:56 PM.

Back on this site, for a while anyway, been so busy the last year.

My systems:2 laptops, intel i3 processors, windows 8.1 installed on the hard-drive and linux mint 17.3 MATE installed to USB

#7 jargos

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 07:05 PM

Post #1
One problem you need to be aware of is that some windows 10 machines might have a locked "secure boot" system in their UEFI. Since windows 8 systems have had this feature which prevents any OS other than the supplied one botting UNLESS the user changes a few settings to turn secure boot off.


The problem is that on windows 10 it is now allowed for manufacturer's to make system wher the user cannot turn off secure boot, I don't know if any manufactuers have done this but they can do it. You should make sure to very carefully check the hardware you intend to buy to ensure that secureboot can be turned off, test it in the shop, restart into the recovery environment by holding "shift" when you restart, then go to the UEFI settings and see if you can turn secure boot off in their, if you can't don't buy that kind of machine, as it is unlikely you'll be able to get anything other than the supplied OS to run on it.

LOL .. thanks, advice much appreciated. But as Britechguy opined in the other thread ..

 

 

My experience is that it is completely unrealistic to expect most casual end users to do anything that doesn't seem pressing to them on a routine basis. Most people consider their computer to be an appliance not unlike their refrigerator, television, or radio.  All they are generally able to do, and expect to do, is to turn it on and use it.

 

So whilst the advice you give is likely spot on, I would rather watch paint dry than contend with it.

 

Have located a really good i7, W7 on eBay. Waiting for the boys approval of the video .. or graphics .. or something .. card.


Linux Mint 17.2 Cinnamon on older, Pentium 4 desktop.

Win 7 on Medion Akoya i3 laptop


#8 jargos

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 08:16 PM

Thank ya'll for the contributions so far.

 

OK, I have located a really good i7 lappie on line, which the kid is really happy with, great graphics and all,  which I have ordered. Won't bore you with a link to it. 

 

The important bit, is that it has W8.1 on it.

 

So here's the thing. Once we get it and turn it on, (going by past experiences with new computers) it's going to do heaps of things once connected, and obviously, download a truckload of updates.

 

I obviously DO NOT want W10 to download or install, so what is the best way to go about this ?

 

There's probably going to be dozens and dozens of updates, and going to manual might interfere with the set up process .. I feel like I'd be between a rock and a hard place.

 

Any tips or clues or procedures ? The aim being to fully set up the computer, but disallow any W10 stuff.

 

Thanks.


Linux Mint 17.2 Cinnamon on older, Pentium 4 desktop.

Win 7 on Medion Akoya i3 laptop


#9 britechguy

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 08:21 PM

Why not take the easy way and let all updates apply and then install GWX Control Panel?

 

Or, if you must, follow the routine you've been using just watching carefully for the three or four well-known KB updates and reject those?

 

It's not difficult, at all, to avoid upgrading to Windows 10 and backing out the GWX stuff that probably will install.  It's certainly simpler than monitoring every blessed Windows Update that will apply related to Windows 8.1 since the version on the box was installed.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (my website address is in my profile) Windows 10 Home, 64-bit, Version 1709, Build 16299

       

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#10 jargos

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 08:25 PM

Thanks. I will also wait to see what others may have to say.


Linux Mint 17.2 Cinnamon on older, Pentium 4 desktop.

Win 7 on Medion Akoya i3 laptop


#11 brainout

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 11:50 PM

jargos, try instead buying it as Win7 to start with.  You can get a wide variety of quality machines with 7 preinstalled from Lenovo, HP, Dell (my fav);  they use the 8.1 license to do that, so it's already with downgrade rights.  The advantage is, come 2020 you can just up to 8.1, get three more years, and THEN if desired go to 10.

 

Or, clone the machine as soon as you get it, then do 10 on it, see if you or your child likes it, and then clone back if you/your kid doesn't like it.

 

Thus you get the best of all worlds:  new hardware, and up to all THREE OSes.

 

As for hardware, don't get a consumer-grade machine like a Pavilion.  Get HP (or other) business-grade, it has a higher resale value and quality with less trouble.  You can usually specify the video card of your choice, just tell the seller you want it for good graphics/gaming but business quality.  Usually nVidia would be used for gaming or business-quality?

 

BTW, Dell doesn't have proprietary drivers so handles Windows better;  the others use proprietary drivers.


Edited by brainout, 12 December 2015 - 11:54 PM.

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#12 jargos

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 05:24 AM

jargos, try instead buying it as Win7 to start with.  You can get a wide variety of quality machines with 7 preinstalled from Lenovo, HP, Dell (my fav);  they use the 8.1 license to do that, so it's already with downgrade rights.  The advantage is, come 2020 you can just up to 8.1, get three more years, and THEN if desired go to 10.

 

Or, clone the machine as soon as you get it, then do 10 on it, see if you or your child likes it, and then clone back if you/your kid doesn't like it.

 

Thus you get the best of all worlds:  new hardware, and up to all THREE OSes.

 

As for hardware, don't get a consumer-grade machine like a Pavilion.  Get HP (or other) business-grade, it has a higher resale value and quality with less trouble.  You can usually specify the video card of your choice, just tell the seller you want it for good graphics/gaming but business quality.  Usually nVidia would be used for gaming or business-quality?

 

BTW, Dell doesn't have proprietary drivers so handles Windows better;  the others use proprietary drivers.

Precious brainout, hi, and thanks for the valuable info. Thing is, good or bad, I've now bought it .. this;

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ASUS-X555LJ-15-6-Full-HD-1080p-Core-i7-5500U-8GB-1TB-GeForce-920M-Gaming-Laptop-/351506296369?hash=item51d7686e31:g:vpkAAOSwEetV~MGr

 

The boy seems to be really happy with all the gaming thingies it has, and everything else, too. And he is not uncomfortable with W8.1, because he has a tablet with it.

 

So, once he's got it up and running, we'll put the updates on manual as discussed earlier (and as britechguy said in his earlier post) and go with that for a while.

 

Mind, his (the boys) ultimate goal would be, I hope, to dual boot it with Linux. As he has a user account on my Linux machine and loves it, I would hope that would be a natural progression.

 

Then, if a time did come when MSFT no longer gave support to OS's prior to W10, he would at that point be quite capable of banishing Windows altogether, to stay with the good stuff :-)

 

Thanks for your contribution.


Linux Mint 17.2 Cinnamon on older, Pentium 4 desktop.

Win 7 on Medion Akoya i3 laptop





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