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"Microsoft updates Privacy Statement, addressing concerns from critics", ZDNet


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#1 Aura

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 09:38 AM

Just ahead of last week's launch of Windows 10 version 1511, Microsoft quietly updated its Privacy Statement.

The current version of the statement has a "last updated" date of October 2015, and based on archived pages was posted to Microsoft's website in mid-October. A close comparison of the October statement with its July 2015 predecessor reveals some noteworthy additions and a few changes.

Some of the revisions are routine, intended to accommodate changes in services, like the renaming of Xbox Music to Groove and the retirement of some MSN apps. There's a fix for at least one typo and some simple wording changes.


Source: http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-updates-privacy-statement-addressing-concerns-from-critics/

All I have to say about this is: happy now?

Appending another article related to that in this thread, since the off-topic posts in the thread I made for it got it closed.

Five Windows 10 privacy settings that have been falsely vilified

Stay on topic please, since I don't want this thread to get closed. Thank you.

Edited by Aura, 18 November 2015 - 07:45 AM.

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#2 leithanne

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 12:52 PM

I'm very happy. But, then, you weren't addressing me. I'm happy that Microsoft cleared up the language to make it easier for the verbally challenged to understand. In the past, it was too easy for average folks to misunderstand, unless they read very carefully.



#3 Aura

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 12:56 PM

In the past, it was too easy for average folks to misunderstand, unless they read very carefully.


Ot they came with their own interpretation and spread it everywhere as if it was the truth or what these Privacy Statement terms really meant.

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#4 leithanne

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 08:08 PM

I'm mostly annoyed with the "writers" who published these articles. I expect journalists to be able to read, so I can only assume that they fanned the flames to increase their clicks. Then, too, when one such article appeared, it was reworked and spread to numerous sites.

 

One poster, here, asked why, if the information wasn't true, there were so many articles and videos touting it. Journalism has come to a sorry pass when lemmings don't do their own research, or are unable to understand a simple EULA.



#5 Aura

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 09:05 PM

It happens with everything now. It's like all these articles about what's happening in the world right now (the way): Syria, Irak, Afghanistan, Paris, etc. A lot of articles are being wrote which contain information whose truthfulness could be discussed, while others are just plain lies. Of course, there's a lot of articles that relates the true facts, but a lot of them will only show one side of the medal, not the other. I guess that what writers and journals wanted here were views and attract attention since since the beginning, Windows 10 was a really "hot" topic.

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#6 Aura

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 07:40 AM

Appended the "Five Windows 10 privacy settings that have been falsely vilified" article to this thread (since both articles are on the same subject) since my other thread got closed because it was taken off-topic. For this one, please stay on topic since I would hate to see it closed.

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#7 jargos

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 08:12 PM

As brainout stated here ..

 

http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/596643/five-windows-10-privacy-settings-that-have-been-falsely-vilified-techrepublic/#entry3866633

 

.. the content of the postings were right ON topic.

 

The thread was closed, however, immediaely fter some uncomfortable questions were asked of you.


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#8 Aura

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 10:10 PM

As brainout stated here ..
 
http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/596643/five-windows-10-privacy-settings-that-have-been-falsely-vilified-techrepublic/#entry3866633
 
.. the content of the postings were right ON topic.
 
The thread was closed, however, immediaely fter some uncomfortable questions were asked of you.


We aren't discussing what happened in the previous thread here. Please stay on topic like I indicated in the OP. Like I said, I would hate to have this one closed.

Thank you.

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#9 Animal

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 10:58 PM

<snip>
The thread was closed, however, immediaely fter some uncomfortable questions were asked of you.


To clarify, the questions posed had nothing to do with why the topic was closed. So please do not make that inference.

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#10 jargos

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 11:59 PM

 

As brainout stated here ..
 
http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/596643/five-windows-10-privacy-settings-that-have-been-falsely-vilified-techrepublic/#entry3866633
 
.. the content of the postings were right ON topic.
 
The thread was closed, however, immediaely fter some uncomfortable questions were asked of you.


We aren't discussing what happened in the previous thread here. Please stay on topic like I indicated in the OP. Like I said, I would hate to have this one closed.

Thank you.

 

You initiated discussion about the other thread with this ..

 

since my other thread got closed because it was taken off-topic.

 

Being a discussion forum, I discussed your comment.

 

 

<snip>
The thread was closed, however, immediaely fter some uncomfortable questions were asked of you.


To clarify, the questions posed had nothing to do with why the topic was closed. So please do not make that inference.

 

Thanks for the clarification. Inferences can be vague - if existent at all.

 

There is no lack of fact, however, in my above statement.

 

There WERE some uncomfortable questions asked of Aura, and within less than a minute, the thread was closed. Fact. No inference intended, although depending on ones position, one can educe a great variety of things.

 

I don't know WHY it was closed. And if it hadn't been mentioned here as discussion, I would hardly care.


Edited by jargos, 20 November 2015 - 12:01 AM.

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#11 Animal

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 01:02 AM

Since it seems it needs to be brought to everyone's attention yet again. Some of the topics I've closed in the Windows 10 forum, I've stated why. After about the third time, I simply stated I will be closing them without further explanation, as it's usually quite apparent.

But lets refresh everyone's mind again how topics get closed in this forum.

How To and How Not To Contribute in the Windows 10 Forum

Feel free to get back on track. Now that the business of how to participate without topics needing moderation has been covered again.

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#12 brainout

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 01:10 AM

Okay, let's see if I can help put the thread back on track.  The article demonstrated and its author Ed Bott admitted in the article's comments, that NO REAL CHANGE IN THE PRIVACY AGREEMENT OCCURRED.  He was cornered on that in the comments.  He pretended that there was no section in the EULA which had been cited to refute him, though citations were pasted directly from it and its 'linked terms' several times.

 

I'm the one who pasted the sections refuting Ed's claims.  He ignored the sections pasted. You can read all that, yourself, in the article's comments. Since this topic is about that article and I participated in the article's comments, this is my deposition about it, which you can thus verify.

 

For the article, only covered minor and barely relevant changes in aka.ms/privacy, adding 'OneDrive' and 'Outlook' (q.v.) and similar superficial appositives.  Leaving untouched the harmful and all-encompassing text which Gordon Kelly of Forbes has been asking Microsoft to clarify since JULY (the new amendments are in blue):

 

Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails in Outlook.com, or files in private folders on OneDrive), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary

 

The phrase 'such as' is another legal way of saying the following classic phrase, 'including but not limited to'.

 

BUT NOT LIMITED TO.  So it's not only Outlook and OneDrive which are slurped.  It would still be wrong if those two were slurped for your private data.

 

So if you have medical information, it got slurped.  If you had medical information on other people, it got slurped.  So if you are a medical practitioner, you doggone well better avoid anything this 'privacy' agreement covers.  And it covers Windows 10, as shown here in the Win10 EULA, Paragrah 14 (emphasis added in blue, and you can read the following text absent emphasis at MSFT, here):

 

"14.    Entire Agreement. This agreement (together with the printed paper license terms or other terms accompanying any software supplements, updates, and services that are provided by the manufacturer or installer, or Microsoft, and that you use), and the terms contained in web links listed in this agreement, are the entire agreement for the software and any such supplements, updates, and services (unless the manufacturer or installer, or Microsoft, provides other terms with such supplements, updates, or services). You can review this agreement after your software is running by going to (aka.ms/useterms) or going to Settings - System - About within the software. You can also review the terms at any of the links in this agreement by typing the URLs into a browser address bar, and you agree to do so. You agree that you will read the terms before using the software or services, including any linked terms. You understand that by using the software and services, you ratify this agreement and the linked terms. There are also informational links in this agreement. The links containing notices and binding terms are:

·        Windows 10 Privacy Statement (aka.ms/privacy)

·        Microsoft Services Agreement (aka.ms/msa)

·        Adobe Flash Player License Terms (aka.ms/adobeflash)"

 

 

Crystal clear.  The aka links coupled with the blue text constitutes a legal technique called 'incorporation by reference', where a document not 'inside' is brought inside merely by referring to it.  Ed in his article and his comments, doesn't understand that.  But he doesn't write up legal documents for a living, so he doesn't know that.  I however, do write legal documents for a living (viz, US qualified retirement plan legal documents, inter alia).  For 30 years.

 

That's why I keep harping on this. It's not to vilify MSFT, but hopefully and only, to warn it.  Someone dropped the legal ball here, and to keep on pretending or bullying those who show the problem, will harm millions.  I'm not the only warner, there are hundreds of them.  (Maybe thousands or millions, but I've only seen hundreds.)  And it's so easy to fix this, just amend/rescind the offending provisions!

 

Ergo, anyone claiming that oh, this ZDnet article answers all concerns about privacy, well.. such a person isn't reading this article and its comments, or is disingenuous.

 

So perhaps the better thing for this topic, is to discuss what was changed, and what wasn't?

 

Problem is, this article covers EULA issues, as quoted above.  And it's my understanding that EULA issues are no longer allowed to be discussed in BC (not quarrelling with that, just seeking clarification).  Personally, you all know what I'll say, so I'll not say more about them. 

 

Point is, chirping praise is not helpful.  Vilifying is not helpful.  Discussion of the meat of the issues is hopefully helpful, as I tried to demonstrate above.  For the problem is not going away.  It will only get worse.  What to do, about that?

 

This issue of privacy violation by contract and telemetry terms, is a real problem. Notice how it has nothing whatsoever to do with, the quality of the software.

 

Everyone here is suffering from the privacy concerns, for we can all be sued for recommending MSFT products covered by this and the more heinous aka.ms/msa agreement(s), as (i.e., computer) practitioners.

 

We're all in this together.


Edited by brainout, 20 November 2015 - 09:50 AM.

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#13 jargos

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 08:08 PM

I don't want to detract or divert attention from brainout's brilliant and perspicacious post, above, and I hope others will address it.

 

Consistent with this threads theme "concern from critics" I want to say this.

 

Brainout highlighted ..

 

You agree that you will read the terms before using the software or services, including any linked terms. You understand that by using the software and services, you ratify this agreement and the linked terms.

 

And this is precisely ONE OF the reasons why I hold MSFT in such contempt. Because I ask my self, how many of the billion or two Windows users (could be more) are actually going to do that ? I mean, read each word, open each link, read and check each word in each link, consider the legal aspects of each condition ..

 

What is your honest answer to that ? Mine is virtually none.

 

So by stealth, by familiarity, by attrition, by abuse of trust, MSFT is signing them all up to an Orwellian nightmare.


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#14 jargos

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 08:09 PM

Since it seems it needs to be brought to everyone's attention yet again. Some of the topics I've closed in the Windows 10 forum, I've stated why. After about the third time, I simply stated I will be closing them without further explanation, as it's usually quite apparent.

But lets refresh everyone's mind again how topics get closed in this forum.

How To and How Not To Contribute in the Windows 10 Forum

Feel free to get back on track. Now that the business of how to participate without topics needing moderation has been covered again.

Very cool, thanks. I was never aware of that other information.


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#15 brainout

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 04:21 AM

 the linked terms.

 

And this is precisely ONE OF the reasons why I hold MSFT in such contempt. Because I ask my self, how many of the billion or two Windows users (could be more) are actually going to do that ? I mean, read each word, open each link, read and check each word in each link, consider the legal aspects of each condition ..

 

What is your honest answer to that ? Mine is virtually none.

 

So by stealth, by familiarity, by attrition, by abuse of trust, MSFT is signing them all up to an Orwellian nightmare.

 

Gotta tell ya, I blame the legal team not the whole of MSFT for this fracaso.  If they took out that language, and if they allowed users to really turn off the telemetry and KNOW what was being transmitted, then we'd have no quarrel except the FEW who are creating all the bugs and bad UI decisions.

 

Not all the bugs are MSFT's fault, they can't know the interaction of every combination of everything.  They remain guilty of the security flaws but even that only because we the customer keep needing backwards compatibility which dates to before the internet was a threat.

 

So I'm not here to throw stones at MSFT, only at their legal team.  Complaints besides that I have already stated, but those complaints are subjective, things I dislike.  The legal complaint as shown above is objective, can kill us all if it's not fixed.   So if it's okay with you, I want to make sure you know I'm not making any further official complaint.  The legal one: that's the kicker.

 

There's nothing said here I didn't already report through Insider Feedback, but of course MSFT is not listening. So you can accuse them of that, too.

 

But what about the hundreds of thousands of employees both at and in the orbit of MSFT whose hard work keeps going?  They need protection, too.  So we do NOT want the company going down.  Only the bad apples:  Ballmer and Sinofsky were two of them, and much of this nightmare now is their legacy.


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