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ENTERPRISE can now turn off telemetry in Win10


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#1 brainout

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 09:12 AM

This just in, from TechRepublic.  Related article is here.  Aura just posted a related article too, from ZDnet, here.  Not sure what the mods want to do about that, seems like the two topics are tangential to each other but not the same?  Focus here is on Enterprise.

 

Following pressure from businesses Microsoft has changed Windows 10 to allow firms to turn off all data collection.

 

From today, organisations running the Enterprise version of Windows 10 will be able to disable all tracking by Microsoft.

 

The change, introduced in a massive update, will not be extended to users running Pro and Home versions of Windows 10.

 

Will be interesting to see how the other mags cover this.

 

It deserves its own topic category, as other mags will follow, and likely any changes in policy will be due to Enterprise needs.  One can only hope such policy changes will occur.

 

On a side note, there is apparently a way to acquire an Enterprise license through MSDN, without having to buy some minimum number of copies;  it's something of an annual subscription cost, like $700 or so per annum. I got conflicting data on how that works, so won't include speculation here.

 

Might be a useful tangential thing to pursue, if as Enterprise you can shut down telemetry.


Edited by brainout, 12 November 2015 - 09:39 AM.

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#2 Aura

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 09:40 AM

We'll keep your thread to discuss the fact that Entreprises can toggle off the Telemetry, while mine is mostly about the "November Update" for Windows 10.

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#3 brainout

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 12:36 AM

Parallel article in Inquirer, here.

 

Some interesting things in that article:

 

*  The same 110 million devices' claim as for the beginning of October, made by theverge, Ed Bott and others.. is claimed here in the Inquirer (and other parallel articles, same interview).. by Korst.  So either no one updated to Win10 during the ensuing 40+ days, or the initial 110 million devices claim was bogus/mistaken/something.  Myerson's 10/29/15 blog says the same 110 million.  But it's now November 12th.

 

*  Given that numerical problem, one should be skeptical of the other claim by Korst, that 12 million BUSINESS CLASS PCs are running Win10, and that 50% of businesses are 'trialling' Windows 10 'at some level'.  Yeah, one machine in an enterprise of 70,000 is a level.

 

Pravda was and is, a Soviet newspaper ("Truth").  During the days of the USSR, it was used as the government's mouthpiece.  So if you were training in the CIA which is mostly a dull job of reading newspapers, money transits, etc., you learned how to read between the lines.  Between the lines, Korst is using the biggest numbers he has to make his pitch. 

 

So look:  Dell Latitudes are business class machines, but you don't have to be a business owner, to own one.  Each manufacturer has its own business class machine line.  So are there only 12 million amongst even the Big Three, with Win10 installed, for sale?  These have to be counted.  And if only that small, then none outside the sales inventory?  The number is vague and quite small. So whatever the other numbers are, they are smaller.

 

50% of businesses are 'trialling' Windows 10 at some level?  Yeah, that's not meaningful.  It's the job of IT to put a new OS in a test box when it comes out, the Enterprise License allows that, and it takes a long time to test, especially since Windows keeps reinventing itself now.  (Reinvent is a Ballmer keyword Nadella admires, see the Mary Foley interview with him here.)

 

That tells you nothing about whether it's LIKED or USED or INTENDED for deployment.  So that too, is the biggest number he has to make it all look rosy.

 

Which means, things are not rosy.  Pravda.

 

Problem is, no announcements that actually are meaningful to business, are trumpeted. Instead, 'cool things' which no business needs.  As if enterprise, were all twentysomethings who wouldn't have yet learned discernment.  Actually, it's an insult even to the twentysomethings, as if they are supposed to be interested in 'cool things' like some non-IT guy working in the mailroom. 

 

Oh, boy, an app store for business. So what?  Only IT can shop there, and they don't need an 'app store' for that.  The removal of telemetry is important.  So too, the ability to completely deny updates when desired, in advance.  But that isn't quite the offer.  Even Enterprise can only DELAY the updates.  So that's why, not rosy. 

 

Hopefully this pravda=truth now exposed, will result in a course correction for MSFT, so it won't repeat the disaster of Win8.  No one wants MSFT to fail.  But they better start changing course.  Now.


Edited by brainout, 13 November 2015 - 12:53 AM.

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#4 JohnC_21

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 02:38 PM

I thought Enterprise was always allowed to turn off telemetry by setting the registry key

 

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\DataCollection  to 0 or using Group Policy. This from the Aug 2015 article of ARS

 

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/windows-10-doesnt-offer-much-privacy-by-default-heres-how-to-fix-it/

 

windows-10-allow-telemetry-640x593.png


Edited by JohnC_21, 13 November 2015 - 02:41 PM.


#5 brainout

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 05:44 PM

Not sure that covers all the forms of telemetry blocking Enterprise needs.  It won't work on Pro or Home, the '0' is disregarded.


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#6 Aura

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 07:54 PM

Maybe that policy wasn't covering every aspect of the telemetry, but most of it. Now it might have become "the" off switch for it.

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#7 brainout

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 08:08 AM

BAD NEWS:  Starting with Threshold 2, Microsoft won't give even Enterprise the right to say no to individual Updates, click here.  ONE MONTH delay, too.  Not, four months. One.  :nono: :nono: :nono:

 

This will kill Win10 adoption.  So it doesn't matter if they can turn off telemetry.  The OS has effectively become one with short support.  Business can't live with that, so won't migrate.

 

Win7 will remain, and between now and 2020, some other OS has to come along or MSFT has to have all its top brass replaced.  These are POLICY decisions, not OS quality.

 

But the OS quality doesn't look too good either, given the many borks in the installers and updates.  Then again, maybe they are rushing things from 'on high', in which case it's unfair to the hardworking folks at MSFT to be treated like this.


Edited by brainout, 16 November 2015 - 08:12 AM.

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#8 JohnC_21

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 08:54 AM

It's impossible to untangle the cumulative updates no matter what patch system one uses, including WUB. Even businesses that rely on the more granular WSUS have only an either-or option: block a specific cumulative update, and thus receive nothing embedded in it, or approve the update and take everything, including past fixes that may have broken Windows or third-party application compatibility

 

.I see a big bowl of not good coming soon to an enterprise near you.



#9 brainout

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 10:15 AM

Yeah, and here's why, same article "Enterprises can postpone Windows 10 updates or even ignore them entirely using other tools, like Windows Server Update Services (WSUS) or System Center Configuration Manager, which they've run for years. But until Windows 10 1511 and its support for group policies, there was no word on whether even some basic flexibility would be included in WUB."

 

Is the System Center Configuration Manager service more expensive than WSUS?  So this is another bait and switch?

 

So this is herding into the following scenario:  we all hold our breath when a patch comes out, hoping our machines work the next day.  Millions of seats in Enterprise can go down multiple times per year, now. Instead of doing our normal jobs, we all have to become IT people, or spend oodles more time on IT than we had to do, before.  Know what that will do to inflation?

 

MSFT is doing to software what Congress did to pension law.  And pensions are dying, as a result.  40 years ago, most plans were defined benefit, a kind of guaranteed income at retirement.  Too many laws passed, too greedy the liars, and so business had to stop adopting such plans.  Now, you get to contribute yourself and the business will put in only a little, and good luck if you have enough at retirement.  Now: this is 40 years later, so you'd think Congress would have learned from its mistakes. Guess again.  They are making the laws worse every year.  Thank God I'm at retirement age, and won't have to be in this business anymore.  But that doesn't help the young!

 

But OSes have to keep going on.  Who will help them?


Edited by brainout, 16 November 2015 - 10:17 AM.

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#10 jargos

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 10:01 PM

Yeah, and here's why, same article "Enterprises can postpone Windows 10 updates or even ignore them entirely using other tools, like Windows Server Update Services (WSUS) or System Center Configuration Manager, which they've run for years. But until Windows 10 1511 and its support for group policies, there was no word on whether even some basic flexibility would be included in WUB."

 

Is the System Center Configuration Manager service more expensive than WSUS?  So this is another bait and switch?

 

So this is herding into the following scenario:  we all hold our breath when a patch comes out, hoping our machines work the next day.  Millions of seats in Enterprise can go down multiple times per year, now. Instead of doing our normal jobs, we all have to become IT people, or spend oodles more time on IT than we had to do, before. Know what that will do to inflation?

 

MSFT is doing to software what Congress did to pension law.  And pensions are dying, as a result.  40 years ago, most plans were defined benefit, a kind of guaranteed income at retirement.  Too many laws passed, too greedy the liars, and so business had to stop adopting such plans.  Now, you get to contribute yourself and the business will put in only a little, and good luck if you have enough at retirement.  Now: this is 40 years later, so you'd think Congress would have learned from its mistakes. Guess again.  They are making the laws worse every year.  Thank God I'm at retirement age, and won't have to be in this business anymore.  But that doesn't help the young!

 

But OSes have to keep going on.  Who will help them?

My red;

 

Yep! More later.


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#11 jargos

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 12:27 AM

I inadvertantly missed bolding the most important part of your post, that which piuqued my interest and got me thinking ..

 

Know what that will do to inflation?

 

 

Well, half joking now - as an observer of world economic trends it seems to me (and to others) that there be significant deflationary clouds looming on the world economic horizon.

 

Even the upbeat optimists at the IMF said last weekend (G20 meeting) ..

 

In an environment of declining commodity prices, reduced capital flows to emerging markets and higher financial market volatility, downside risks to the outlook remain elevated…

 

.. and the OECD added it's own dire assessment of world trade slumping to 2%.

 

I suppose you can only flog a dead horse so much.

 

REAL econimic activity .. where to get it ? People actually doing things - things they wouldn't normally do .. and lots of them - a billion or two.

 

Now THAT'S real economic activity (even if unwanted by the people) and puts a huge damper on deflationary pressure.

 

OK, tin foil hat back off - I post this as a mere aside to this conversation.


Edited by jargos, 17 November 2015 - 12:28 AM.

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#12 brainout

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 03:47 AM

Well, it's a one-two punch.  Inflation constricts trade in the long run because a rise in prices ends up reducing demand, since people don't have enough money.  Famous example of post WWI Germany, where a wheelbarrow of Reichsmarcs (sp?  Right name then?) to buy a loaf of bread.

 

IMF and the OECD countries really focus on their own. IMF, because its job is to lend money, and OECD, because its job is to forecast kinks.  All that fondness for Keynes, is showing. :tophat:

 

But the reality is, if we are spending much more time just getting Windows to work, we're not producing, and therefore unit costs rise.  Then again, if we are so busy staring at our tablets and trying to get Windows to work, we are NOT going out, NOT spending time in the store, NOT consuming, NOT taking vacations with same spending level, so yeah.. now demand goes down, too.

 

Perfect storm, when prices rise and demand goes down, but the reduction is way too INelastic, as it's not caused by price.. but by our time being consumed with making Windows work.

 

Don't need telemetry, to know this business of futzing with your OS all the time, will lead to its abandonment.


Edited by brainout, 17 November 2015 - 03:51 AM.

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#13 jargos

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 06:32 AM

Your 1st para .. you probably meant the hyperinfaltion period during the Weimar Republic circa 1919.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_Republic

 

Lots of arguements pro and con, about what you said, about what I said ..

 

But yes, keeping on topic, so far as it relates to the central issue here, I see your point, for sure.


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#14 brainout

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 07:39 PM

Computerworld has updated its article now on how long Enterprise can delay updates, here.  It's confusing.  Seems to backtrack on the four-week problem that Mr. Keizer reported earlier in the week.


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#15 leithanne

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 07:50 PM

It's not confusing. The first article is talking about security patches and bug fixes, and the second about feature upgrades.






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