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Backup strategy for Win 10 Tablet


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#1 yu gnomi

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 02:22 AM

Hopefully this is a "softball" question for knowledgeable people to advise on (when I ask for help, it is usually for odd and possibly inexplicable problems).

 

I have a Windows 10 tablet - w/ a keyboard, so it is a hybrid. I like it, even though it is sluggish due to it's unimpressive Atom processor. On the plus side the battery lasts for a long time, due to it's low-wattage Atom processor. I like windows 10 too, I think it is very similar to 8.1, which I also like and I don't give a damn what the Tech bloggers say about win 8.

 

I would like to make restore images of my tablet and store them (probably via Macrium Reflect). I have a 2TB external hard drive, which I encrypted for no good reason, but it took ~30 hours to encrypt in the first place, so I am loath to un-encrypt it. My desktop also has a 1TB hard drive which is mostly empty. I have yet to attempt to simply hook up my Tablet to my Desktop, because I might not actually own the required cable - literally the cords for every USB device I have, have a standard USB connector at only one end.

 

Also, I am not sure whether a micro-USB one end, normal USB other end cord (which I have 3) is called for here.

 

The main problem I have is figuring where to actually store them, that would be useful in a recovery environment situation. This goes beyond my experience, since I have only ever attempted recovery using CD's or DVD's, which are not applicable to my tablet because it has no optical drive.

 

What would be an optimal backup strategy (for the hybrid tablet) for a lazy cheapskate, such as myself?

 

 



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#2 usasma

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 06:11 AM

Most tablets have the ability to store backups to the cloud.

It depends on the make/model of the tablet on how to exactly do this.

What is the make/model of your tablet?


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#3 yu gnomi

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 03:54 PM

Acer One 10 S1002-145A

 

I have uninstalled all of the OEM software, but I think I can just download it all again.



#4 BIGBEARJEDI

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 12:51 AM

You can also backup bootable images to USB flash drives, using Macrium or AEOMI backupper, but these take extra patience and effort and may not be suitable for the self-described "lazy" person.   But, does your table use a standard size USB port or only the micro-usb or mini-usb plug?  If your Tablet's BIOS let's you boot from a USB drive, this method might work.

 

They sell adapters for regular sized usb flash drives to the mini- and micro-usb ports.  I haven't tried this yet, as I don't own a working tablet.  But, it might be worth a shot.

 

Let us know if that helps you.

<<<BIGBEARJEDI>>>



#5 yu gnomi

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 01:18 AM

I have a 16GB thumb drive, I don't know if that will be big enough for a system image.



#6 BIGBEARJEDI

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 02:28 PM

Hi yu,

 

Well, it might be; but probably not since it's such a small drive in there (32GB according to your specs posted), if you have it over 50% used, which is quite likely, a 16GB flash drive is too small; you'll most likely need to get a 32GB drive instead. 

 

Had a Client I just did a W10 upgrade on; and it took me over 25 hrs. to figure out why he couldn't upgrade from 8.1-->W10.  That's because he only had a 30GB drive in his HP netbook, and it was 95% Full!!!   No frellin' way an image on that laptop would ever fit on a 16GB flash drive.

 

Flash drives prices are really coming down.  Last year around this time (Black Friday weekend), my son was visiting and we were in Radio Shack looking for christmas gifts--I got my 32GB SanDisk Cruzer Glide flash drive on Sale for $7.99.  That's less than 1/2 the price I just paid for a new SanDisk 16GB drive (just paid $19.99 for one @ Radio Shack).  So keep an eye out for sales.  With a 32GB flash drive you could still image that drive in your table even if it was 100% Full!! 

 

Hope that helps.

 

Have a Great weekend,  :thumbsup2:   :hello:

<<<BBJ>>>

 

edit:  however, if you wanted to image just the W10 factory load image, a 16GB should be ok, as that only takes around 9GB (unless you're using W10 Pro which is bigger).  However, that would preclude backing up any programs or data on that drive, since you would not have room to add them and still create a cloned image less than 16GB.  Hope that makes sense.  :)


Edited by BIGBEARJEDI, 13 November 2015 - 02:30 PM.


#7 usasma

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Posted 14 November 2015 - 10:55 AM

The system has 32 gB of flash memory (so you'll likely need a maximum of a 32 gB drive to backup to).  Most likely it'll actually be less.

The system comes with an micro SD card reader - or wireless.

You can backup to the micro SD card if it's big enough - or you can connect wirelessly to another device and copy the backups there.

 

I didn't see USB listed in the specs, but the pictures seem to indicate USB ports.

If so equipped, you can also backup to a USB flash drive or external HDD.


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#8 yu gnomi

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Posted 15 November 2015 - 03:30 AM

The keyboard has a normal USB port on it. 

 

since making this thread, my tablet crapped out - I was attempting to update to latest version of 10 at the time, so I guess some sort of update mishap caused that. I found out how to reset it to default condition, and started over, installing stuff I wanted and removing stuff I didn't. I also successfully updated to latest Windows 10. It has been over a day since, and is still working with no apparent defects.

 

Currently I am using ~ 12.5 GB total drive space, so maybe a system image now would be useful. It would save time to restore to this point vs. starting completely over. Do you think I could fit a system image and recovery software on a 16GB thumb drive if I deleted everything else on it first? 

 

And would recovery software have any issue with finding the image if it was on the same thumb drive? (I have never actually attempted this from a thumb drive).

 

I only have Macrium Reflect free version on hand, if there is another free software better suited for this, please let me know.



#9 clayto

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 06:31 AM

Do a search for AOMEI Backupper Standard --- it is free, clearly laid out, has a variety of options, an online pdf manual & helpful support. I am in a similar situation with a 'small storage' 2-in-1 tablet and intend to do an image disk backup soon when I get a big enough USB (in the sales?)  I have just been saved from a Black SOD following the November update, with a small USB Windows PE Recovery Drive, using AOMEI. Easy to do. 



#10 usasma

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 05:27 PM

Type "recoverydrive" (without the quotes) at the Start Menu.

That'll take you to the wizard to create a recovery drive.

It WILL erase everything on the 16 gB thumb drive.

 

I believe the thumb drive is large enough - but in the event that it isn't, Windows will tell you so.

 

These drives usually work - although I have had a number of problems with them on Asus systems.
I'd suggest trying it out after you make it - just so you can be sure it'll work.

 

Good luck!


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#11 yu gnomi

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 02:35 PM

Type "recoverydrive" (without the quotes) at the Start Menu.

That'll take you to the wizard to create a recovery drive.

 

This is what I ended up doing, and I adjusted my Bios settings to find the Recovery drive while booting, and tested it. Didn't actually attempt any repairs since everything is working right now.

 

My original intent was to find a way to restore a system image to my tablet, but I am going to just go with this for now. If/when another calamity occurs, I'll find out whether it's good enough. 



#12 BIGBEARJEDI

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 06:00 PM

Yu,

 

It might interest you to know that most Image Cloning softwares such as Macrium Reflect (which you said you already had), and AOEMI backupper, all compress your images when you save them as a file to an external target device such as a USB flash drive or a USB hard drive.  Some compression can be as much as 50%.  Others very little; it depends on a great variety of things such as which computer platform you are imaging, 32bit versus 64bit etc.

 

Based on your question in Post #8; if you did a W10 install onto the tablet with 12.5GB of space on the hard drive, that should fit comfortably onto a 16GB flash drive.  Using a brand new SanDisk Cruzer Glide 16GB flash drive I just bought, looking at it this morning you have about 14.5GB of free space as it comes from the factory without formatting it.  If you use Macrium or AOEMI (haven't tested Image Cloning yet with AOEMI on W10 platforms; only Macrium & Acronis are certified by my Company for that), it should compress you image down to something less than 12.5GB; could be as low as 6.25GB (50% compression), but as high as 12.5GB (0% compression).  In the first case, you'd actually have room for a few programs prior to the Imaging as long as you kept the total under say 14GB.  With compression it could be between 7-14GB same as above depending on how much compression you get from each program you try on the Tablet. 

 

You might get a 14GB image down to 9GB with Macrium, and 11GB with AOEMI let's say, but either one will still fit onto that 16GB flash drive.  :thumbup2:

 

Hope that helps.  Let us know how it worked for you.

Cheers!

<<<BBJ>>>  :idea: 


Edited by BIGBEARJEDI, 17 November 2015 - 06:02 PM.


#13 yu gnomi

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 08:16 PM

I have a specific question, because I have never attempted this. If you use Macrium Reflect to install Win PE on the thumb drive, and copy a System image (made with Reflect) to leftover space on thumb drive, will Win PE even look on that thumb drive for a restore image? or can it only be made to look on other drives for an image?

 

My limited experience with recovery software is that many options you wish were available, either aren't available or require expert knowledge to use.



#14 usasma

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 05:45 AM

There are ways to substitute a system image for the image on the recoverydrive.

But it requires familiarity with how the disk is built and where/how to insert the system image.

I've read up on how to do this, and it seems (to me) to be excessively complicated.

 

I'd suggest (as the others have) experimenting with Acronis, Macrium, or AOEMI to see what you can do

As I recall, it's a simple task with Acronis - but I haven't tried it myself in years.

 

EDIT:  As for what I do now, I:

- backup my data regularly (to include the settings for the apps that I use regularly)

- I use Acronis to make images of my drives automatically (but haven't used these images in years)

- I use the "recoverydrive" to restore the system

- then I copy my data back in.

- I install my regularly used programs (Office 2013, Firefox, Thunderbird, PopPeeper, Virtual Box, Debugging Tools for Windows, and the Sysnative BSOD Processing App w/additional dll's)

- then I install any other needed programs as I realize that I need them

 

I find that a fresh install works better than resurrecting an old image that may have hidden problems.


Edited by usasma, 18 November 2015 - 05:54 AM.

My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#15 BIGBEARJEDI

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:23 AM

Hi again Yu,

 

Perhaps I can help on your question in Post #9 too.  Burning cloned images to USB or DVD drives can be tricky.  Even though I've done quite a bit of testing with both Macrium & Acronis as you said, I have not experimented with creating bootable images to USB drives with either product.  I've only done it with DVD discs; where you boot a ISO image for say Windows7 or Win10.  (those would be Microsoft ISO files). I've also created the WinPE Rescue Discs that both Macrium and Acronis recommend you make, again onto DVD discs, for most versions of Windows (7/8.1/10).  The reasons to use one of these bootable discs or flash drives of course would be to recover from a catastrophic failure to your Windows install, such as from virus/malware (software failure), or from a failed hard drive (hardware failure). 

 

That being said, when I create bootable OS discs or flash drives from ISO files I usually use IMGburn to create those when burning to DVD discs.  I use different tools such as Macrium or Acronis to create a bootable disc that lets me fully recover everything that was on that hard drive prior to erasing it or replacing it with a brand new drive.  From my work with these, I would expect that the answer to your question is No, you can't install a WinPE image via Macrium or Acronis onto a partially used flash drive.  The way these programs burn (write) images to the flash drive is similar in how they do it for DVD discs, and these are generally a linear type of write, and each program uses it's own particular formating of the flash drive or DVD; however, most use NTFS or a similar one such as HPFS.  Because of this, you cannot install a Macrium or Acronis backed up clone image to either media that has any files or folders on it, since they must both be erased due to the formatting required prior to writing (burning) the image onto the media.  Not sure why you'd be trying to squeeze something like a hard drive bootable rescue image onto a flash drive that still has stuff on it, other than cost; but 16GB flash drives are prett inexpensive; $10-$20 US just about anywhere, and less if you use cheaper brand drives such as PNY or others. 

 

I understand the question, but it doesn't make sense to try and use any kind of media (DVD or Flash) for rescue or re-imaging purposes that has any other stuff on it!  In any case, there is no way I'm aware of to do this.  You could try to partition the Flash drive prior to burning your cloned image to the drive, say put in 12GB for the Macrium/Acronis image, and leave 3GB for your existing files/folders.  There are utilities that let you do this dynamically.  However, you'd be limiting the space you have for the bootable WinPE image by doing so.  It just seems counterproductive to me.  Buy another flash drive for this rescue image, and keep the one you have separate for folder/storage.  I have drawers-full of these things, as do most of my customers.  Why not just divide and conquer here?

 

Hope that helps.

<<<BBJ>>>  


Edited by BIGBEARJEDI, 18 November 2015 - 10:25 AM.





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