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"The geek distrust of telemetry risks making software dumber", via ZDNet


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#1 Aura

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 03:39 PM

Geeks complain loudly when features are removed from software, and companies typically reply: "We removed it because nobody uses it."
That may not be the most accurate answer. Perhaps they should say: "We removed it because we couldn't see anybody using it."

The real problem is that the geeks who use advanced features have either turned off or blocked the telemetry that companies use to direct their software development.


Source: http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-geek-distrust-of-telemetry-risks-making-software-dumber/

Another article for those who don't understand the benefits of telemetry and why it's a good thing to leave it enabled sometimes.

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#2 leithanne

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 06:05 PM

Interesting. However, I would like to suggest that a really smart geek understands what telemetry is used for, and leaves it turned on.



#3 Aura

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 06:12 PM

However, I would like to suggest that a really smart geek understands what telemetry is used for, and leaves it turned on.


Sadly, not every "geeks" knows that or are smart enough to understand the concept of telemetry and what it is used for. I guess that in this article the author used the term "geek" to describe users that are on a level over the average one, but still fail to understand a lot when it comes to computing.

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#4 britechguy

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 06:17 PM

I have never quite understood why, but there seems to be a higher-than-average proportion of conspiracy theorists among the technical geek community.

 

I started out my career in computing by working for a defense contractor for two years followed by a decade at a major telecommunications company.  In all that time I never saw anything that indicated that either entity had the slightest interest in "spying on" random customers/people.  Most of the aggressive profiling I've ever seen has come after the advent of the internet and is used mostly for targeted advertising, and this is the actual collection, retention, and analysis of truly personal data.

 

Most of the crunching I've ever heard about from telemetry is virtually always about product improvement via analysis of aggregate data.  Individual data is utterly useless except for use in building aggregates that actually indicate trends of various sorts.

 

I'm also sick and tired of the equation of keylogging with nefarious purposes.  Most of the conveniences we have as far as not having to type out every last thing we want to fill in comes from keylogging and generating suggestions based on same either from dictionaries and/or personal entry history.  That's not nefarious.


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#5 Aura

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 06:19 PM

I agree with you Brian, but try to explain this to these conspiracy theorists among the technical geek community. Even though we are in the computing domain and we explain them how things work, they refuse to hear it and claim that they know better than us even thought they don't work in the IT world at all, and knows way less than we do. The battle is loss before even starting it because they avoid it, refuse it.

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#6 britechguy

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 06:41 PM

Aura,

 

        Conspiracy theorists are but one variety of zealot.  Virtually everything they base their opinions upon is taken as a matter of faith.  Their filters are virtually complete when it comes to taking any information that casts doubt on their beliefs out of the incoming information stream.

 

         I've seen plenty of that right here in these forums.  Most of the replies I make to zealots has absolutely nothing to do with the thought that you can change their minds, but are aimed at the reading audience that could be influenced by their certitude in the absence of rational presentation of information that casts doubt on the basis for that certitude.

 

         Some of the theories are so "out there" that I don't even bother to make any sort of response.  I figure that anyone who'd buy into those sorts of ideas isn't going to be swayed by facts and reason.  Two of my favorite quotations that I keep in mind when dealing with zealots of any stripe are:

 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 
   ~ Henry Rosovsky
 
It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.
    ~ Jonathan Swift (1667 - 1745), Irish essayist, novelist, & satirist

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#7 Norseman143

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 08:10 PM

I have been coming to BC,on a regular basis before W10 was released. I got a brand new PC so I thought it would be a good Idea to keep up on the latest viruses and problems people are having,so I will know what to look out for.

 

After using XP for over 10 years and then getting a windows 8.1 and having to learn that, I thought how bad could W10 be. So I got it the first day it was released.

Except for the last update that made my PC crash. Its been running flawlessly, so I dont have a problem with W10 at all.

 

After downloading 10 was when all the articles and videos came out, How many links did people on this forum make in all the different threads talking about the privacy issues? but there were next to none reassuring people that they weren't going to spy.

 

I think it was only Aura and Drew that said anything different as far as privacy goes, But didnt have anything from Microsoft or Microsoft officials backing them up.

So when you see dozens of links to web sites,all negative about the privacy issue who do you believe?

 

I have always volunteered to different programs to take part with there evaluation programs like Avast and Firefox. But they always say something like, We wont use your name for advertising and they wont give your info out to anyone, Microsoft doesnt really say that, does it?

 

I think Microsoft did a poor job explaining themselves to skeptical people. All they would have had to say to me was like Avast and Firefox did.but they dont



#8 jargos

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 08:50 PM

You must have faith - faith can move mountains !

 

You must love your beneficient Overlord.

 

It is heresy and apostasy to question Him.

 

The gifts .. the Manna from heaven He bestows upon you are but for YOUR benefit and well being.

 

Never doubt this, Oh, ye men of little faith !!!


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#9 jargos

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 08:55 PM

I have been coming to BC,on a regular basis before W10 was released. I got a brand new PC so I thought it would be a good Idea to keep up on the latest viruses and problems people are having,so I will know what to look out for.

 

After using XP for over 10 years and then getting a windows 8.1 and having to learn that, I thought how bad could W10 be. So I got it the first day it was released.

Except for the last update that made my PC crash. Its been running flawlessly, so I dont have a problem with W10 at all.

 

After downloading 10 was when all the articles and videos came out, How many links did people on this forum make in all the different threads talking about the privacy issues? but there were next to none reassuring people that they weren't going to spy.

 

I think it was only Aura and Drew that said anything different as far as privacy goes, But didnt have anything from Microsoft or Microsoft officials backing them up.

So when you see dozens of links to web sites,all negative about the privacy issue who do you believe?

 

I have always volunteered to different programs to take part with there evaluation programs like Avast and Firefox. But they always say something like, We wont use your name for advertising and they wont give your info out to anyone, Microsoft doesnt really say that, does it?

 

I think Microsoft did a poor job explaining themselves to skeptical people. All they would have had to say to me was like Avast and Firefox did.but they dont

Believe in the Word of your beneficient Overlord, only - and as retold by his legions !

 

All thos other wretches you refer to (my bolded) are but apostates - mal content conspracy mongers who do not partake of the fruit of the true vine.


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#10 britechguy

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 08:59 PM

I believe those who have evidence.  Anyone and everyone can traffic in unfounded conjecture.

 

So sorry that I don't believe that Microsoft wants to pry into every aspect of my life since doing so has no practical benefit to them.

 

Tempest in a shot glass - with an echo chamber chaser.


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#11 jargos

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 09:15 PM

But MSFT's EULA does give them the ability to pry into every aspect of your INTERNET, MOBILE PHONE, ETC,  life.

 

They have done this for NO practical benefit to them ? Come on - are they really THAT stupid ?

 

 

 

And there you are with the echo chamber again .. but  I agree.

 

My echo chamber is small, brittle, recognizable .. I can reach out and touch it's parameters .. and occassionally, can step outside of it.

 

The echo chamber that is MSFT W10 and which you occupy ?

 

Ah, my friend, now THAT is an echo chamber of GRAND proportions, and many mansions - Candy Cruch 'n all :-)

 

Edit  changed 2nd last para


Edited by jargos, 09 November 2015 - 09:17 PM.

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#12 leithanne

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 09:16 PM

I should have spoken up more, Norseman, but, as Brian said. it's hard to respond to some of the theories. Kinda like "Obama isn't an American" thing. What can a person say to that?

 

As for who I believe, I believe the source, the EULA, the Privacy Agreement, and the Services Agreement. Not what other people say they mean. That's where Microsoft says they won't use our info for advertising or give out our names to third parties. That doesn't make for very good headlines, though, does it? Better to trumpet that Microsoft may share non-identifiable information about our hardware with trusted third parties. That's how the Nvidia card fiasco got fixed. Telemetry and sharing.


Edited by leithanne, 09 November 2015 - 09:18 PM.


#13 britechguy

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 09:26 PM

I should have spoken up more, Norseman, but, as Brian said. it's hard to respond to some of the theories. Kinda like "Obama isn't an American" thing. What can a person say to that?

 

As for who I believe, I believe the source, the EULA, the Privacy Agreement, and the Services Agreement. Not what other people say they mean. That's where Microsoft says they won't use our info for advertising or give out our names to third parties. That doesn't make for very good headlines, though, does it? Better to trumpet that Microsoft may share non-identifiable information about our hardware with trusted third parties. That's how the Nvidia card fiasco got fixed. Telemetry and sharing.

 

Heaven forfend that some of us read and analyze legally binding documents and have a clear understanding of them.  It does lead to a snooze-inducing conversation, though.   Some people like fireworks.


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         ~ Commenter TheCruyffGurn on the The Guardian website, 8/13/2014

 

              

 


#14 Animal

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 10:16 PM

Seriously people! Don't make me shut down another topic because you can't discuss civilly and without snark and sarcasm. I'll keep shutting down threads till you all can behave like adults and show some respect for opposing opinions.

I'm not asking you to accept differing views, but you had all better quit attacking somebody who disagrees with your position. This is your final warning here in this forum related to Microsoft 10 topics.

I'll just start deleting or locking topics that violate the forum rules for flaming and instigating arguments without warning.

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#15 Norseman143

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 11:01 PM

I should have spoken up more, Norseman, but, as Brian said. it's hard to respond to some of the theories. Kinda like "Obama isn't an American" thing. What can a person say to that?

 

As for who I believe, I believe the source, the EULA, the Privacy Agreement, and the Services Agreement. Not what other people say they mean. That's where Microsoft says they won't use our info for advertising or give out our names to third parties. That doesn't make for very good headlines, though, does it? Better to trumpet that Microsoft may share non-identifiable information about our hardware with trusted third parties. That's how the Nvidia card fiasco got fixed. Telemetry and sharing.

Hi Leithanne

 

If I am understanding it right, I don't use Microsoft's Edge or Cortana,which seem to be the biggest data miners in W10. Its not because they phone home to Microsoft as much as I dont really need them for what I use the PC for.

 

I have come to the conclusion that with the millions of people using W 10, even if they are tracking us, I dont do anything against the law or do anything illegal where any kind of tracking software would flag me

 

I dont like it that with Cortana and witth no Microsoft stuff activated, that its still in the task manager. They should let you turn it off IMO

 

Anyway,I am not going to worry about it anymore






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