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Windows 10 Automatic Spying


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#1 sikntired

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 02:15 PM

Came across this from Forbes:

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/11/02/microsoft-confirms-unstoppable-windows-10-tracking/?utm_campaign=yahootix&partner=yahootix&ref=yfp

 

Kind of repudiates previous statements.



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#2 Aura

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 02:23 PM

...send your hardware details and any changes you make to Microsoft...


Doesn't really count to be honest because this is how the activation works now under Windows 10 so if they cannot receive that information, the Windows 10 licence on the system wouldn't be validated.

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#3 brainout

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 03:30 PM

Yeah, and Kelly is still being too kind.  KEYLOGGER is what it really is, Lincoln Spector had fought saying that and finally admitted it, we all know that's what it is, Paragraph 3 of aka.ms/msa justifies it in the name of watching you to see if you're doing something MSFT thinks is immoral (never mind how immoral and illegal the spying of MSFT).

 

Lying for a year to sell everyone on trying Win10, and when we learn how horrible the spying and complain, FINALLY they admit it.  Do you want to do business with a company so blatantly lying?  That will be the problem now with Win10.  Notice, it no longer matters if the OS is any good.  It's now associated with FORCING and LYING.

 

And NOT 'belle' Fiore is leaving, before his flagship phones ship.  Rats leaving a sinking ship to sail away for a year while the furor builds.

 

MSFT isn't going to learn the lesson.  Whatever is good in Win10 (and there is much good) will end up tainted by this.

 

Shutting off Windows updates so they can't taint my existing machines, switching out the disgusting Win10 snooper OS, and gonna use Linux to surf, so to be able to keep using existing Windows, slowly having to learn it or Chromebook or Apple later: those are a professional's alternatives, now.  For the Mighty Casey is Striking Out.


Edited by brainout, 02 November 2015 - 03:32 PM.

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#4 Aura

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 03:31 PM

KEYLOGGER is what it really is


Can I see you complain about the keyloggers in iOS and Android that dominates the smartphone market now? Oh no, wait, nobody seems to care about it because it's not from Microsoft, for whatever selfish reason that is.

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#5 britechguy

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 03:33 PM

It is becoming abundantly clear to me that a lot of the press that's writing about this has no idea whatsoever about the sorts of telemetry that have been in place for years now on Windows systems and how it is possible to collect and aggregate information without having any personally identifiable information associated with it.

 

The fact is that hardware configurations, peripherals connected, and how those are used are immensely valuable in making Windows, or any OS, more stable.  I don't know how anyone could consider that sort of information to be intimately private.

 

You can turn off all telemetry (that I know of, anyway - I'm not a conspiracy theorist so I'm not entertaining the "there's lots of completely hidden data collection of a personal nature" stuff) related to personally identifiable information and, in fact, can erase any that Microsoft has collected about you.

 

This is a tempest in a shot glass.


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#6 Gorbulan

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 03:39 PM

 

KEYLOGGER is what it really is


Can I see you complain about the keyloggers in iOS and Android that dominates the smartphone market now? Oh no, wait, nobody seems to care about it because it's not from Microsoft, for whatever selfish reason that is.

 

 

There are keyloggers in iOS and Android? Where?



#7 Aura

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 03:40 PM

How do you think that Siri, Google Now, Hangout, iMessage, etc. are able to give you word prediction when you type? This is a keylogger module used for a good purpose. Not all keyloggers are bad, a lot of people seems to think that keylogger = bad or keylogger = malware, I'm sorry but keylogger have legitimate use, like in Windows, iOS and Android.

Edited by Aura, 02 November 2015 - 03:40 PM.

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#8 britechguy

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 03:45 PM

How do you think that Siri, Google Now, Hangout, iMessage, etc. are able to give you word prediction when you type? This is a keylogger module used for a good purpose. Not all keyloggers are bad, a lot of people seems to think that keylogger = bad or keylogger = malware, I'm sorry but keylogger have legitimate use, like in Windows, iOS and Android.

 

It seems that no matter how often the historically accurate and obvious is pointed out, again and again, some simply will not comprehend it because it goes against their preconceived notions.

 

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#9 brainout

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 03:58 PM

Sigh.  The MS shills always think that if Microsoft is doing something wrong, somehow it's less wrong if others are alleged to do the same thing. That proves how dishonest they are.  This phenomenon of comparing iOS and Google to MSFT's evils, is rampant all over the internet, as if all these shills were speaking with a hive mind.  It's impossible to tell them apart.

 

NO ONE IN THE HISTORY OF COMPUTING HAS EVER WRITTEN HITLERIAN EULA PROVISIONS LIKE PARAGRAPH 3 OF AKA.MS/MSA .  The only historical parallel is in dictatorships like Hitler's Germany, Stalyin's Russia, and Mao's China.  Where spying was part of the government.

 

But MSFT is not a government. The NSA cannot use anything collected under Paragraph 3 because it's collected without warrant so is inadmissable in court.  So if someone is guilty and discovered, the evidence on the machine is unconstitutionally collected, violating the 4th Amendment of the United States Constitution.

 

But per Paragraph 3b of aka.ms/msa, which is (sigh, sorry for the repetition) incorporated wholly by reference so is part of Win10 EULA Paragraphs 1b(i) and 14 which is viewable in the link provided above or on any Win10 machine at Windows\System32\license.rtf -- per Paragraph 3b, MSFT has the right to unilaterally and in its own discretion, remove or stop 'services' (which thus includes Win10 itself), publish your PRIVATE content.  So now if you've confidential data on someone else, that person can SUE you successfully;  others, can accuse you to MSFT as part of the 'investigating' clause in Paragraph 3b.

 

If there were no Paragraph 3 of aka.ms/msa, your accusers would have to obey due process of law in the country wherein you reside.  Now, they don't.  THAT is a big difference which the shills, paper over.

 

So now you've this Sword of Damocles over your head if you use Office 365, Skype, Bing, Edge, the latter two being integral to Win10 (so if you claim that Win10 isn't covered  by Paragraph 3, joke's on you because those two 'services' are severally listed).  Shills, ignore this.  MSFT counts on that.

 

So there's NO COMPARISON to Google or iOS, which have never had aka.ms/msa type terms in their licenses.  Only MSFT claims to be your policeman.

 

Sigh: and I don't even like or use Apple or Google, have no such cellphone or tablet.  Proving again, shills are religious zealots who ASSume that since they are religious about an OS, you are too.

 

I'm not religious one way or the other about MSFT.  I have 15 XP+Win7 machines to take care of, and this push of Win10 threatens their health.  Keylogging violates privacy of third party data on my machines, so I'm FORCED to go elsewhere to protect them.

 

There are many hardworking employees at MSFT who need to be protected too.  Only a few, the top brass and the entire legal team, are wrecking it for the many.  All that good hard work on Win10 will be tainted and trashed now, because some dingdongs at the top decided on monetizing the desktop and the lawyers didn't stop the horrific Paragraph 3 of aka.ms/msa from being published.

 

And it can be fixed oh so easily.  But is not.  Instead, MSFT people cover it up or sail away.

 

Sorry for the ranted reply.  I'll not do it again, shouldn't have been necessary in the first place.  If absolutely necessary in the future, I'll just link this post, from now on in new confrontations.  Apologies to the rest of you who know this stuff, already.
 


Edited by brainout, 02 November 2015 - 04:18 PM.

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#10 leithanne

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 04:45 PM

If you don't like the Services Agreement, don't use Services. They have nothing to do with the OS.



#11 Aura

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 05:17 PM

Sigh. The MS shills always think that if Microsoft is doing something wrong, somehow it's less wrong if others are alleged to do the same thing. That proves how dishonest they are. This phenomenon of comparing iOS and Google to MSFT's evils, is rampant all over the internet, as if all these shills were speaking with a hive mind. It's impossible to tell them apart.


That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that it's selfish and plainly stupid to trip over something Microsoft do, when everyone else is doing it but not trip over them and put all the blame on Microsoft.

So there's NO COMPARISON to Google or iOS, which have never had aka.ms/msa type terms in their licenses. Only MSFT claims to be your policeman.


Read the full Google Term of Service/Agreement, etc. and let me know if it's not close to Microsoft's one. If anything, it could be even worse.

Sigh: and I don't even like or use Apple or Google, have no such cellphone or tablet. Proving again, shills are religious zealots who ASSume that since they are religious about an OS, you are too.


You don't, but a lot of other users who complains just like you do, yet they do not complain about their smartphone OS, even though it's the exact same as Windows, why?

I'm not religious one way or the other about MSFT. I have 15 XP+Win7 machines to take care of, and this push of Win10 threatens their health. Keylogging violates privacy of third party data on my machines, so I'm FORCED to go elsewhere to protect them.


"Keylogging". Alright, then you shouldn't be using any kind of system that have typing prediction enabled, and you can be damn sure that it's present in Windows XP, 7, 8, 8.1, etc.

Like I said, a bunch of people complain about stuff they don't know anything about but act like they do. And these people are the laughing stock of the IT world, I can tell you that.

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#12 brainout

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 05:34 PM

Okay, let's go over this one more time (apologies to others who know this already):

 

  • ANY use of Win10, uses Bing, Cortana.  You can't turn off Cortana, thus turning on, aka.ms/msa. If you turn off Cortana services, 30 seconds later it comes back on.  Belfiore ADMITS THAT here in this topic's article. Since Bing powers Cortana and Bing is covered under aka.ms/msa, no matter WHAT you do, Win10 is covered.
  • For aka.ms/msa is mentioned in Win10 EULA Paragraph 1b(i) and 14, so legally all its provisions apply to the OS.
  • So the very second you first loaded EDGE (another covered 'service'), aka.ms/msa applied to you.  The first second you searched on your machine you accessed Bing and Cortana, even if only to shut them off.  So aka.ms/msa applies to you. THAT is what Paragraph 1b(i) and especially 14, mean.
  • So then you cannot use Windows 10 without accessing those services, and even if you could, the "Entire Agreement" (Paragraph 14 of the Win10 EULA) includes all of aka.ms/msa because it's listed in Win10 EULA.

 

A person doesn't have to be a lawyer, to add up the facts and words in both Windows 10 and aka.ms/msa and understand that.  And, people like Gordon Kelly have been warning of it for months.

 

So MSFT bypasses due process of law (hence is illegal and eventually will be declared to be illegal) in Paragraph 3 of aka.ms/msa, not only with respect to the 'services' severally, but with respect to Win10 itself.

Proof:  Search on '14' or 'aka.ms/msa' and when you get to '14', here: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/UseTerms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm .  Relevant section is pasted below, with bolding and underlining added:

 

 


"Entire Agreement. This agreement (together with the printed paper license terms or other terms accompanying any software supplements, updates, and services that are provided by the manufacturer or installer, or Microsoft, and that you use), and the terms contained in web links listed in this agreement, are the entire agreement for the software and any such supplements, updates, and services (unless the manufacturer or installer, or Microsoft, provides other terms with such supplements, updates, or services). You can review this agreement after your software is running by going to (aka.ms/useterms) or going to Settings - System - About within the software. You can also review the terms at any of the links in this agreement by typing the URLs into a browser address bar, and you agree to do so. You agree that you will read the terms before using the software or services, including any linked terms. You understand that by using the software and services, you ratify this agreement and the linked terms. There are also informational links in this agreement. The links containing notices and binding
terms are:

·        Windows 10 Privacy Statement
(aka.ms/privacy)

·        Microsoft Services Agreement
(aka.ms/msa)


·        Adobe Flash Player License
Terms (aka.ms/adobeflash)"

 

It doesn't get any clearer:  Windows 10 is wholly subject to all of aka.ms/msa and aka.ms/privacy. And, MS knows it, so HIDES it and is very underhanded about disclosure, because absent Paragraph 3 of aka.ms/msa, they cannot justify monetizing the desktop. They think they have to play policeman to justify slurping private data. They expect you NOT to read, and so because you didn't read but agreed that you did, you are lying but bound.

 

One should boycott MSFT for this reason alone: they are NOT disclosing something that harms you and them, violating their own Code of Conduct imposed on you in Paragraph 3a of aka.ms/msa.

 

So this is the last time I'll write to you about this.  It's not fair to other BC members, to keep repeating the same thing.
 

If you don't like the Services Agreement, don't use Services. They have nothing to do with the OS.


Edited by brainout, 02 November 2015 - 06:20 PM.

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#13 Aura

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 05:38 PM

Why don't you read the Agreement? Why don't you understand that ANY use of Win10, uses Bing, Cortana? You can't turn off Cortana. Why don't you understand that when aka.ms/msa is MENTIONED in Win10 EULA Paragraph 1b(i) and 14, that LEGALLY ALL ITS PROVISIONS APPLY TO THE OS?


:D

dAmLbcP.png

Why don't you understand that this isn't even what I'm talking about here?

The very second you first loaded EDGE (another covered 'service'), aka.ms/msa applied to you. The first second you searched on your machine you accessed Bing and Cortana, even if only to shut them off. So aka.ms/msa applies to you. THAT is what Paragraph 1b(i) and especially 14, mean.


Cool. Now read my last post and tell me where I said that "aka.ms/msa" doesn't apply to me or you or anyone else. This isn't my point at all, yet you keep on insisting that it is.

So then you cannot use Windows 10 without accessing those services, and even if you could, the entire AGREEMENT INCLUDES aka.ms/msa because it's LISTED in Win10 EULA.


Once again, this isn't even what I'm talking about. Read my last post again.

That's English101. Now if you can't understand that, go to a lawyer. But a person doesn't have to be a lawyer, to add up the facts and words in both Windows 10 and aka.ms/msa and understand that. And, people like Gordon Kelly have been warning of it.


English 101? I think my point is pretty easy to understand, that is, if you're able to read English (am I right?). This being said, are you a lawyer? I don't think so, I recall you saying something about planning retirement plans for people, which means that everything you're saying right now also can't be taken as true because you're not a lawyer. Am I right?

I shouldn't have to explain this.


And I shouldn't have to tell you that the "aka.ms" or whatever you call it isn't even what I'm talking about here, but if you were actually reading my posts, you would know.

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#14 Condobloke

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 06:02 PM

....and so it goes,.,...aura referring to people as "plainly stupid"....and britech telling us this is just a tempest in a shot glass, and lets ignore the hidden data jazz ....etc etc ...ad nauseum. Where are you drew?...oh thats right, you failed to convince anyone that your crap was correct/real so you got yourself fired/banned rather than face the heat from the more clear thinking individuals who express an opinion here at one of the largest memberships to be found on a forum worldwide.

 

msft os's cover the world. Both in business, and the domestic level....they have no peer.

 

Android would hope that one day it can be as big....but it cant overtake apple.....so good luck there.

 

Google will allow its focus to digress to other things.....it cant make much headway shoving bing out of the way....and it will probably alter direction soon, in such a way that will leave the world stunned.

 

msft....has gained TRUST.

 

They have plainly abused that trust.

 

""Like I said, a bunch of people complain about stuff they don't know anything about but act like they do. And these people are the laughing stock of the IT world, I can tell you that""........You can tell us that..??!!....well now, thats comforting. Not.


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fed up with Windows antics...??....LINUX IS THE ANSWER....I USE LINUX MINT 18.3  EXCLUSIVELY.

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#15 Aura

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 06:05 PM

msft os's cover the world. Both in business, and the domestic level....they have no peer.


They sure as hell don't dominates the smartphone market.

Android would hope that one day it can be as big....but it cant overtake apple.....so good luck there.


https://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp

Like I said, "a bunch of people complain about stuff they don't know anything about but act like they do. And these people are the laughing stock of the IT world, I can tell you that".

""Like I said, a bunch of people complain about stuff they don't know anything about but act like they do. And these people are the laughing stock of the IT world, I can tell you that""........You can tell us that..??!!....well now, thats comforting. Not.


You are free to take this comment as if I were speaking to you, or not.

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