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Windows 10 updates Policy Change: MORE OF THE SAME


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#1 brainout

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 06:35 PM

New article just in by Mary Foley on Terry Myerson's statement about the next phase of Windows 10 updates: the kind forced now on Win7 and 8 machines, or Win10 updates after conversion.

 

Upshot:  THEY DID NOT LEARN FROM THE COMPLAINTS and will continue the same forcing as before.

 

So for those who were hoping MSFT would wake up and smell the coffee, guess they won't.

 

I'm sorry, but their policy here is immoral, just as aka.ms/msa Paragraph 3 is illegal and immoral. It's now ransomware, since your Win7 and 8 updates don't process when the Win10 nagware is on, and you don't know how or cannot shut it off.  So you are unprotected, unless you obey the Borg and 'upgrade' to Win10.  All this, with no option to first CLONE or backup your machine!!!

 

To support MSFT now is to be immoral.  I can't be loyal on any level, anymore.  THREE MONTHS of complaints and problems was enough time for them to change course.  They won't.  The 'hitlerian' adjective now provably applies, and the company should be boycotted.


Edited by brainout, 29 October 2015 - 06:51 PM.

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#2 rp88

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 07:39 PM

brainout post #1:
I believe on a practical note that users who have, since before april, refused every update that isn't a security vulnerability fix are safe from this "no updates until you upgrade" thing. I think that the "no updates until you upgrade" thing is something caused by some of the large string of updates to the windows update client which came out from about july up until october (no doubt more are to come). Also users who have had windows update ruined by a "no updates until you upgrade" situation might still be able to install updates using wusa (windows updates stand alone installer) from the command-prompt or by downloading the updates they think they need from microsoft's online download pages rather than using the normal method of dealing with updates. These however are more difficult for users as the user would have to regularly check online for information about when updates have been released and would have to hunt down the updates they wanted rather then being able to see a list of all the updates being offered from which they could pick and reject various KBs.

"All this, with no option to first CLONE or backup your machine!!!"
Does the "no updates until you upgrade" thing prevent the making of system images or something? For users who already have an old system image from before april restoring to it, then only ever installing security updates (and maybe the odd personally relevant bug fix, but generally there aren't many of them) should work to keep their system in functioning order and able to receive security updates while rejecting others, or does the thing causing the "no updates until you upgrade" effect prevent restoration to old system images (it shouldn't be able to, it really, really shouldn't be able to, but maybe it could)?

Regarding that article, I suspect I'll be myself disabling windows update entirely, then working with utterly manual (as in download from ms's site) updates for a while whilst converting over to linux when microsoft starts making windows 10 appear as an update of the form they discuss, though with my system having none of the recent updates to windows update client I might be safe from it even being displayed. If windows 10 was good then this pushing wouldn't be needed, why ms won't leave those of us who like our current systems alone I do not understand, how desperate are they, can't they settle with those who have wanted windows 10 and trying to force it on the rest of us?

Edited by rp88, 29 October 2015 - 07:41 PM.

Back on this site, for a while anyway, been so busy the last year.

My systems:2 laptops, intel i3 processors, windows 8.1 installed on the hard-drive and linux mint 17.3 MATE installed to USB

#3 brainout

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 07:52 PM

No, rp88, it doesn't prevent making clones, but once you click that enforced popup which won't let you go forward unless you update, you cannot clone.  WHERE IS THE WARNING to clone first?  WHERE IS THE OPTION to say no permanently?  WHAT ABOUT ALL THE PEOPLE using Win7 and 8 who don't know anything much about computers? WHERE IS THE EMPATHY in MSFT for the problem, after three months of reports all over the world?  They are CALLOUS.  Totally and utterly callous.

 

Look: if only a million people experienced update problems, that's 1 million DAYS LOST.  So even if a computer user's 'pay' for his job were $10 an hour (which is very low, not even a grocery clerk), then 240 MILLION DOLLARS is lost.  All in one day.  240 million dollars that could put bread on the table for millions more: it's called 'multiplier effect' in economics, and given the 'velocity of money' the multiplier ends up being like 20 or more, if memory serves.  So now 240x20x1 million.  All because MSFT is so callous and daft and incompetent to make the stupid GWX thingy an 'update', despite THREE WHOPPING MONTHS of complaints all over the world.

 

So whatever charitable works Gates and the other top brass of MSFT do, is all UNDONE by this heinous HARM one lousy GWX decision makes on the lives of more than a million souls, in but one day.  And this harm goes on, day after day after day, and now Terry Myerson announces it will STILL go on?

 

Death of time, death of trust, death of productivity is DEATH.  Just as much death as physical.  It's criminal.

 

MSFT is now provably beyond a doubt, immoral; so is, anyone defending them.  No wiggle room left.  We gave it the benefit of the doubt because it was a big company, couldn't know all the problems that would result, meant well, whatever excuse we (including me) wanted to give it for all the problems.

 

No more excuses left.  I'm so ashamed of MSFT I could die.  Why did I EVER trust them?

 

And here's another article on the same topic, Ars Technica

 

The other pubs will probably have more articles tomorrow.  Usually 24 hours after the first one, the others all chime in.


Edited by brainout, 29 October 2015 - 08:06 PM.

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#4 rp88

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 09:24 PM

"WHAT ABOUT ALL THE PEOPLE using Win7 and 8 who don't know anything much about computers?"

They're the ones who are going to suffer the worst, I just hope that they notice the signs early so they can get to someone who knows how to help them, gwx is more easily stopped the earlier it is caught.

Edited by rp88, 29 October 2015 - 09:25 PM.

Back on this site, for a while anyway, been so busy the last year.

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#5 jargos

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 09:33 PM

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

Lord (JD) Acton


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#6 brainout

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 09:37 PM

Yeah.  And the pity of it is, we've all been too measured and nice in voicing our concerns and complaints.  I can't even calculate the millions of lost man hours and dollars and the ripple effect it has on the world.. already.

 

For all of this loss is completely unecessary.  Just provide the stupid Win10 download link and let people pursue it or not.  That's what a MORAL company would do.  A MORAL company wouldn't forcefeed the Win10 update, especially since you must clone or backup beforehand. But the heinous GWX won't allow that.

 

So for this to KEEP going on after all the known and reported problems, now requires much stronger and more forceful resistance.  Munich has occurred.  We need Churchills speaking against the popular mindless kant.

 

But as usual, the ones causing the war to come, are the ones acting like little Neville Chamberlains in ZDnet, Ars Technica comments, and elsewhere.  Which is why MSFT like Hitler, thinks it can keep on doing the same ol', same ol.

 

We learn from history that we never learn from history.  Understandably, for every time I think the Win10 news can't get worse.. it does.


Edited by brainout, 29 October 2015 - 10:00 PM.

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#7 NickAu

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 09:46 PM


Windows 10 will be made an automatic “recommended” update early next year

 


 

The Windows 10 free upgrade program has so far concentrated on those Windows 7 and 8 users who reserved their copy in the weeks leading up to the operating system's release. Over the coming months, Microsoft will start to spread the operating system to a wider audience. The Windows 10 upgrade will soon be posted as an "Optional Update" in Windows Update, advertising it to anyone who examines that list of updates.

Then, early next year, it will be categorized as a "Recommended Update." This is significant, because it means that systems that are configured to download and install recommended updates—which for most people is the safest option—will automatically fetch the upgrade and start its installer. The installer will still require human intervention to actually complete—you won't wake up to find your PC with a different operating system—but Windows users will no longer need to actively seek the upgrade.

This mirrors an accidental change that Microsoft did earlier this month. The Windows 10 upgrade was showing up for some people as a recommended update and the installer started automatically

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/10/windows-10-will-be-made-an-automatic-recommended-update-early-next-year/?comments=1

 

This should be fun, NOT



#8 brainout

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 10:11 PM

Another article, this one from The Register, just in.  Then here's the latest from betanews.  And here's the latest from TechWorm, which is  bland and useless.


Edited by brainout, 30 October 2015 - 06:08 AM.

(Away, Notifications Off) AUDIT PREMISES, my guidon.  -- brainout or brainouty on vimeo or Youtube, domain brainout.net


#9 sikntired

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 07:55 AM

Well, I've been reading all of these articles and, thought to myself, surely MS will react to the 'backlash' of the disappointed masses and correct their behavior with respect to 'forced updates', 'privacy issues' and downloading WinX Preps to unsuspecting users, without authorization, who choose not to upgrade.

 

Now I have to confess, as I sit here shaking my head, that I have lost the last vestige of respect that I once held for MS. Very shameful !!

 

Guess I'll focus more towards educating myself in using Linux, they have a great bunch of advocates over there.



#10 brainout

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 10:46 AM

Now weighing in, Gordon Kelly of Forbes, with a more blunt assessment, which other pundits all avoid, click here.

 

And this one, in Computerworld, is almost as pointed as the Forbes article.  I'd love to paste part of the text, but it won't copy.  Search on 'Microsoft has been testing' and start reading that and the next two paragraphs.  That little fiasco with the pre-checked 'optional' update was YES intended, and will be the new default, as you'll see.

 

But this just in from TechRepublic, is the most informative 'five ways' that MSFT will foist itself upon you.  Not inflammatory, but not coy, either.

 

If I did this forcing on my customers, they'd fire me.


Edited by brainout, 30 October 2015 - 01:04 PM.

(Away, Notifications Off) AUDIT PREMISES, my guidon.  -- brainout or brainouty on vimeo or Youtube, domain brainout.net


#11 pcpunk

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 03:15 PM

This is so sad?


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#12 britechguy

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 05:15 PM

This is so sad?

 

Only to a certain subset of the IT population.   No matter what Microsoft does someone is going to feel the need to scream about it.  I've been in the group of screamers on more than one occasion.

 

If Microsoft does indeed ever start doing full Windows 10 upgrades without direct (as in you must confirm to continue) user input the backlash will absolutely be huge.  There's a lot of hardware out there that can't, and probably won't ever, run Win10.

 

My biggest complaint about all this is that the Windows 10 upgrade process itself, the part that the user may not see, should do a compatibility check and if the hardware fails then set a marker that would prevent it from being installed (or attempting to install).  The Windows 10 Support forum is full of examples of people having done the upgrade who never should have done so, and that's through no fault of their own.  If the current version of Windows that you're running is asking you if you want to upgrade it is a perfectly reasonable presumption on a user's part that they should be able to do so without issue.  Sadly, that's often not the case.

 

As a support technician, I've seen a lot more situations that range from mere issues to utter catastrophes that are the direct result of failure to apply Windows updates that Microsoft classes as "important."  This is all the more so when those updates are security related, and with the creativity of hackers security updates are a not infrequent necessity.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The Forbes article contains this line:  "But it is also incredibly invasive and controlling, taking an iron grip on what it installs to your PC and tracking everything you do – something options let you minimise, but not stop entirely."

 

          I don't know where this guy gets his opinions from, but they certainly don't match my experience.  Windows 10 might be described by some as invasive, but it's no more "controlling" than any Windows version I've used.  There is no "iron grip" on your machine and you can turn off virtually every piece of telemetry that contains personally identifiable information during your setup.   It does not, even with the default settings on, come close to "tracking everything you do" in any meaningful sense of the phrase.  Collecting and then aggregating group data isn't tracking you, personally.  If consumers want, and it certainly appears that they do, electronic personal assistants such as Siri or Cortana then access to actual personal data, and personal profiling of you for the purposes of learning "how to serve you better," is part an parcel of the deal.  That's one of the reasons I don't use Cortana, or at least I think I don't.  I am still waiting for Microsoft to issue a statement whether the Cortana process, which is part of the Windows search functionality, is considered as using the Cortana Service.  I would hope not, because one cannot opt out of the Cortana process, but one may completely avoid using the Cortana Service.  This is the only one of the Services listed in the Microsoft Services Agreement where this sort of ambiguity exists.


Edited by britechguy, 30 October 2015 - 05:27 PM.

Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

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    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story


 

 

 

              

 


#13 brainout

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 07:57 PM

Notebook Review is talking about this too, and in the latest page a link to the ghacks article was provided, click here for the ghacks article.  What distinguishes the ghacks article, is its dispassionate explanation and clear warning about the forcing problem, including screen shots to show which Update elections are most vulnerable.


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#14 leithanne

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 09:04 PM

I've always felt that Microsoft made upgrading to 10 too easy. No thought processes are involved. Just click here. And it's FREE! Now they want to make it easier?

 

Not only the people whose machines can't handle Win 10 should be shielded, but people who can't properly prep a computer should be urged to wait for help in doing so. Like a checklist of things to do, on the screen before the download begins. Unfortunately, these are the very people who will allow the install to happen, without a second thought. After all, it's just another update, right? No it's not. It's a major revamp of the os, and not to be taken lightly.

 

My upgrades went well. I think it's 50% my having plain vanilla Dells, and 50% my having clean machines. I ran all the scans, defragged, backed up, unplugged the peripherals, and took out the trash before attempting an upgrade. Yet, Microsoft suggests none of this. That, IMO, is wrong.



#15 jargos

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 09:51 PM

Well, I've been reading all of these articles and, thought to myself, surely MS will react to the 'backlash' of the disappointed masses and correct their behavior with respect to 'forced updates', 'privacy issues' and downloading WinX Preps to unsuspecting users, without authorization, who choose not to upgrade.

 

Now I have to confess, as I sit here shaking my head, that I have lost the last vestige of respect that I once held for MS. Very shameful !!

 

Guess I'll focus more towards educating myself in using Linux, they have a great bunch of advocates over there.

YES !!!!

 

For the life of me, I can't see why multitudes don't give it a go.

 

It is EASY, not hard, not ensconced in some techie wold divorced from commonality.

 

I am a computer dummy - and a 40 year Windows user. After I full installed Linux Mint17.2 I loved it, it was EASY, CLEAN, REAL, and immediately usable.

 

You would be surprised. There is nothing really to educate yourself on - if you use a computer for basic, normal everyday functions Linux is easy peasy. Try it  - you will be impressed.


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