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Extremely Persistent BSOD


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#1 mudwub

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 05:18 PM

Hello all,

I come to you today to tell you about a BSOD that has been plaguing me for a little over a year now. It has withstood the test of time, hardware, fresh OS installs, completely different Operating Systems, and many other attempts to rid my system of it. This is the most persistent BSOD I have ever come across. 

I can't think of a single piece of hardware in my system that I HAVENT replaced trying to get rid of it. I have actually posted about this problem before,http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2348825/locate-ssd-bios.html, and as you can see it started happening with a completely different build from what I have today. I am using the same brand of SSD, but I replaced that too. I have tried many different solutions from a bunch of people, all who were very helpful, but the BSOD persisted. 

I have even taken it in to tiger direct and had their people look at it but they could not reproduce the BSOD and therefore could not find out what was wrong with it. 

I recently upgraded from Windows 8.1 to 10 back in August. For the first month everything was fine, then I started getting a ton of blue screens, more than usual. I decided to clean install windows 10 on September 28th, and up until now everything was working perfectly. This leads us to today. I was playing a steam game, not even a stressful one, when an all too familiar blue screen popped up. I saw it for a split second, then the computer restarted itself. I immediately went into the BIOS because I knew what was coming next.

When in the BIOS I went into the boot priorities menu and just as I suspected, my SSD wasn't listed. Just my HDD, which has no OS on it, just some games. I decided to go with my usual fix which consists of turning it all the way off then back on, going back into the boot priorities and seeing that my SSD has now magically reappeared. 

I change the boot priorities and the computer starts up like normal, like nothing ever happened. No dump files, no errors in the event viewer other than the one that says windows has shut down unexpectedly. 

One new thing that I did notice today, while looking around the BIOS, was that prior to this BSOD, when I would go into boot priorities it would always list my SSD with the OS as top priority. Now, after the crash, even if I change the SSD to top priority, when I save changes and reset then go back into the BIOS, I notice that it goes back to my HDD as top priority and my SSD as second.

I dont know if that helps at all but I figured I would include it. I am pretty much ready to just live with it, but I figured I would come here first and ask one last time. I am thinking it has to be hardware related but I honestly have no idea which part it could be. This makes me not want to try and replace any part at all because if I were to spend money on a new part and then have it BSOD again, then I would have to spend even more money on different parts.

Since these first started they havent been happening too frequently, usually at random intervals though. I could go anywhere from a month without crashing to a week. 

I am not sure what else to add, but if there is any other information that might help you guys out that I havent included, please let me know, I would be happy to provide it. 

And thank you to all of you who take the time to read through this. I know it is a long post, but I felt that there really was no way to condense it.

Specs:
Mobo: MSI z97 gaming 5
GPU: MSI gtx 970 GD5T
CPU: Intel i7-4790k
Ram: Corsair Vengeance 4x4 1866MHz
PSU: Corsair H1050
SSD: Crucial MX100 250GB
HDD: WD Black 1TB
OS: Windows 10 64-bit

Also, the error that usually pops up with these BSODs is CRITICAL_PROCESS_HAS_DIED. I have to disable the automatic restart with blue screens otherwise I wont see it. When it does pop up, it freezes at 0% and I usually have to force shut it down anyway.

 

And here is a picture of the boot priority screen im talking about. In the picture you can see that the WD HDD is top priority over the crucial SSD. When I would switch them around, then reset to save my changes, it would immediately revert back to the HDD being top priority. 

When the BSOD happens and it auto restarts I only see the HDD option until I fully power down my system then turn it back on.

 

http://imgur.com/ugHWye2



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#2 usasma

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 07:19 AM

OK, what exactly remains of hardware that you have not replaced?

Have you replaced the case? The motherboard? The CPU?  The PSU? The WD Black 1TB?

Also, in replacing these devices, have you replaced the cables associated with them?

Be very specific as those items will be the initial focus of our diagnostics.

 

Please provide this information so we can provide a complete analysis (from the Pinned Topic at the top of the forum):  http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/576314/blue-screen-of-death-bsod-posting-instructions-windows-10-81-8-7-vista/

 


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#3 mudwub

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 08:54 AM

It's been a little while since swapping out the last part, but I'm almost 100% sure that the only things I haven't replaced are the case and cpu cooler.

When I've tried fixing this in the past I did try things like different sata cables, but to no avail.

One thing I noticed yesterday, and idk if this helps, is my boot order keeps reverting itself.

Before the crash I had my SSD with the OS as priority 1, and my HDD as priority 2. After the crash, it bumped my HDD up to 1. As I said in my post, I couldn't see the ssd until a full power cycle. After that, the ssd reappeared, but it kept the HDD at 1 and put the SSD at 2.

I switched them around, like I always do and restarted to save changes. This time, though, I decided to go back into the BIOS to make sure my changes stuck.

Nope! Even though I told it to save my SSD at priority 1 it didn't. It switched them back around to my HDD being at 1 and my SSD being at 2. It did this every time I tried to correct them. It refuses to keep my SSD as priority 1. I've even tried setting the SSD as priority 1 then disabling priority 2. That didn't work. When I restarted, it changed it right back to HDD at 1 and SSD at 2.

 

I have also attached the perfmon report and the sysnative collection app. I apologize for not posting them sooner, I should have read the top post before posting this thread.

 

 

Attached Files


Edited by mudwub, 28 October 2015 - 09:19 AM.


#4 usasma

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 12:27 PM

I'm looking at issues with the boot drive(s) and with the mobo as the most likely culprit.

 

First off, did you install Windows with both drives in the computer?

If so, Windows may have decided to boot from one drive, then switch to load the OS from another drive.

In your case I'd suspect that it's getting the boot files from the HDD and then switches to the SSD in order to load Windows.

 

A rough test is to unplug the HDD and see if the system will boot (but the SSD may also have boot files on it - so it's not a 100% certain test)

If it doesn't boot, then we suspect the boot files are only on the HDD.

 

Leave the HDD disconnected, and then the "fix" here is to run Startup Repair (and maybe a few other commands) in order to fix the boot files on the SSD (this is only ½ of the work that needs to be done).

Once the system boots well without the HDD, then you can do the other half

The other half is to remove the startup commands from the HDD.  The easiest way to do this is to backup the data on the HDD and then format it.

 

On to the analysis:..............

 

There's only 18 reports included in the Sysnative upload.  The Sysnative app will generate 29 reports.

Please rerun the app and let it run until it finishes.  On my system it appears hung after 18 reports - but I'm letting it run for at least 30 minutes before killing it.

Never mind, it locked up for over 30 minutes on my system also.  I have enough info to get started - and will ask if I need more.

 

Your UEFI/BIOS (version 1.7) dates from 2014.  Please check at the manufacturer's website to see if there are any UEFI/BIOS updates available for your system.  If you are able to install the update through Windows (without booting from an external drive), then go ahead and update it.  WARNING - if the computer might shut down during this procedure, please don't do it, as this may physically damage the computer and prevent it from booting.

You only have 8 Windows Updates.  Most systems have 12.  Be sure to check for (and download/install) ALL Windows Updates.

 

There is no record of BSOD's on your system.  No dump files are present, there are no memory dumps listed in the KernelDumpList.txt report, nor are there any reports of these errors in the WER section of the MSINFO32 report.  Let's have a look a this report:

Please do the following:
- open Event Viewer (run eventvwr.msc from the "Run" dialog)
- expand the Custom Views category (left click on the > next to the words "Custom Views")
- right click on Administrative Events
- select "Save all Events in Custom View as..."
- save the file as Admin.evtx
- zip up the file (right click on it, select "Send to", select "Compressed (zipped) folder")
- upload it with your next post (if it's too big, then upload it to a free file-hosting service and post a link here).

FYI - If we're looking for Event ID 41 errors (unexplained shutdowns), there's more info on that here:  http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2028504

While waiting for a reply, please monitor your temps with this free utility:  http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

As you already have this installed, what readings have you seen?

 


Edited by usasma, 28 October 2015 - 01:30 PM.

My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#5 mudwub

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 03:04 PM

Sorry for the delayed response, I was actually letting memtest run for a couple of passes. No errors from two passes. I know that's not a lot of passes but I had not run that test before and figured I would do it just to see if any errors popped up within a pass or two.
 
When I installed the OS I did leave the HDD unplugged. I left the HDD unplugged until I had installed the OS and every driver that I needed. Then I plugged the HDD in and went in to the disk management options and did a full format of the HDD and turned it into a new drive. 
 
I have not updated the BIOS yet but I am thinking that might be my next step should it happen again. Wouldn't it be better to update it through an external drive, like a USB stick, than using an application to do it for me? If not, I would gladly use the application over the USB, updating the BIOS always makes me nervous.
 
I went and checked for any new windows updates but it only downloaded and installed one. Is there some other way to update windows other than the built in updater?
 
I went ahead and reran the sysnative app and let it go all the way through this time. Sorry about that. I also got the event viewer files as well. I will attach them both.
 
I also wanted to say thank you so much for helping me out with this. I really appreciate you taking the time to read through my posts and the files that I am uploading.
 
Edit: I wanted to add that I am noticing a lot more Event 41's in the event viewer, and as far as I can remember, they weren't all due to blue screens. Just the one that occurred on Monday. It looks like it was logging a couple of those even when I clicked the windows shut down button from the start menu. I am not sure why it would log that when I am shutting it down normally. The only time I've ever seen those show up is when I've had to force shut it down with the power button after a blue screen.

Attached Files


Edited by mudwub, 28 October 2015 - 11:17 PM.


#6 mudwub

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 07:15 PM

Sorry I didn't post this in my previous reply, but I actually have been monitoring the temps, pretty much since the BSODs started, and I have never seen the CPU go above 50 Celsius or the GPU go above 70, and that's when I am playing a stressful game. The CPU idles around 26-30 Celsius, and the GPU idles around 30-32 Celsius. 

 

http://imgur.com/a/Z7I9D

 

I uploaded some screenshots of the HWmonitor in case there were some other temps you wanted to see.



#7 usasma

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 05:09 PM

I prefer using an application to update the BIOS - as it removes most the human element from it.
In the past most problems with BIOS flashes were due to human error. 

 

As long as you didn't get any errors when visiting Windows Update, then that's all you can do.

 

Event ID 41 is Windows saying it doesn't know why it shut down.  There's several different reasons for that, so have a look at  this article for details: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2028504

We look through the reports and try to see if we can match any problems with the Event ID 41's.  If there's no pattern, then it's most likely a hardware problem.

From the temps you've provided, it seems that the problem isn't due to overheating.

Holding down the power button to shut down Windows will generate an Event ID 41 - but you shouldn't get one when trying to shut down normally.

 

Looking at the Event Viewer logs, I'm seeing periods of a few seconds just before the Event ID 41 errors.

And in several of them there are messages that state: "Windows failed fast startup with error status 0xC00000D4."

I suspect that this isn't a shutdown issue, rather the system shuts down and then attempts to restart - and then it crashes.

I'd suggest going into the Power Options...Choose what the power button does and uncheck the "Fast Startup" box (you may have to click on the Change settings that are unavailable link near the top of the page).

See if that helps.

 

This is a workaround - not a true fix.

The NTStatus code of 0xC00000D4 is STATUS NOT SAME DEVICE.  The details of this message state:  The target file of a rename request is located on a different device than the source of the rename request. As such, I suspect that the actual problem is a difficulty with the startup arguements in the Fast Startup mode.

 

If you find that this suggestion fixes the problem, then I'll have to do some research to figure out how to repair Fast Startup function.


Edited by usasma, 30 October 2015 - 05:12 PM.

My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#8 mudwub

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 07:50 PM

Ok I think I will updating the BIOS through the MSI live updater a try. Or is it really that hard to do it through a USB? I already loaded the BIOS onto an empty USB, I thought all I had to do was load into the BIOS and have it flash from a USB device?
 
I also disabled the fast startup option, I guess all I can do now is wait? Sometimes it can be a month before another crash occurs. 

Edit: I was doing some research on the BIOS updater for my MSI motherboard and I stumbled o to some threads warning people not to use the live updater tool to do it.

https://m.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/1rgrx4/warning_to_those_using_msi_motherboards_do_not/

http://www.tomsguide.com/answers/id-1818997/msi-live-update-reliable.html

Reading through those makes me a little wary of using that tool. What do you think?

Edited by mudwub, 31 October 2015 - 01:18 AM.


#9 usasma

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 04:37 AM

Choose whatever you're most comfortable with.  You can find information like that with almost anything that you search for.

I haven't had much experience with MSI boards at work.  But W8/8.1/10 communicate much more with the BIOS/UEFI than the previous versions (7, Vista, XP) - so it's crucial to ensure that it's updated (IMO).

 

It won't hurt to use the flash drive method.

Just be sure:

- that you have the correct version for your BIOS. Triple check it to be sure.  If you flash the wrong one you can easily "brick" your motherboard.

- that you follow the directions exactly (practice before doing so that you know what to expect) - don't do anything extra if you're uncertain.

- don't touch anything while it's flashing - keep kids and animals away from it while it's flashing - don't do it during times that the power might go out.

 

Frankly, I've done many flashes using USB/floppy disk and haven't had a problem.  But I've seen the results of bad flashes and don't want to be one of them!

Good luck with whatever you decide!


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#10 mudwub

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 09:18 AM

One last question before I go ahead with this. Do I need to clear the CMOS with both methods, or do I just need to clear it if I flash it using a USB stick?



#11 usasma

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Posted 01 November 2015 - 05:49 AM

No need to clear the CMOS - the flash will do that (but should save the date/time settings for you).

 

FYI - in most cases it will reset the BIOS/UEFI to default values.

I mention this because of Secure Boot.

If you turn off Secure Boot and then install Windows - when it comes time to update the UEFI, it will reset to default (Secure Boot = On) and then the system won't boot!

The "fix" here is to go back into the UEFI after the flash and disable Secure Boot again.

This is only for use if the system won't boot - I only mention it because it took me 2 days to figure this out on a customer's computer!


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#12 mudwub

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Posted 01 November 2015 - 02:00 PM

I just flashed the new BIOS and it was a success! I am now running the latest BIOS and still have fast startup disabled. I guess the only thing to do would be to wait and see if that fixed it? Unless there is something else you think I should try or any more information I should post?



#13 usasma

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Posted 01 November 2015 - 06:48 PM

Now we wait and see if that fixed it.

If not, post back and we'll suggest some other things.


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#14 mudwub

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 10:55 AM

Alright cool, thanks again for all your help! I will be sure to post back here if I blue screen again.



#15 mudwub

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Posted 15 February 2016 - 11:15 PM

It's back! At least I think it is, could just be an anomally.

 

Same thing happened as before though. BSOD, no dump file, restarted itself but couldn't find SSD, powered down, powered on, SSD found, booted up like nothing happened. 4 months later.






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