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Motherboard Voltages In Spec?


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#1 Aran

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 11:38 PM

I have had a buggie computer since the git-go. Random freezes initially - finally got it figgered by removing all external devices and video drivers and reloading. The display has been going blank "No Signal" a reboot usually corrects that and the event log lists nvlddmkm video device errors. NOW it just shuts off at will. Like someone pulls the plug from the wall. Event Log says Windows Experienced an Unexpected Shutdown.  When this happens the power switch on the front is inoperative. I have to turn off the PSU with the switch on the back, press the power switch on the front, turn the PSU switch back on and restart normally. Sometimes it won't display video, sometimes it will boot but when I go to logon it turns off unexpectedly again. I have found that leaving it off and crying myself to sleep and coming back later it will boot up fine. I have had the thing apart ( I dislike the IBuyPower Revolt case) and cleaned and checked everything. The SATA connectors don't feel solid but they are well set. I tried to run without the graphics card but the "No Signal" screen came up again. Memory has been pulled and swapped 1 to 2 and 2 to 1. I am uncomfortable flashing the BIOS because if it shuts off, well, I think you can understand that. I ran Speccy and have a publish below. Are my woes PSU related?

Input is welcome. Thank you for listening.

 

IBuyPower Revolt (an apt name) 570

Windows 8.1 64-bit
Intel i7 4790 @ 3.60GHz Haswell 22nm Technology
RAM 16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 933MHz (10-12-10-30)
Gigabyte Z97N-WIFI (SOCKET 0) 1150?

FSP 1U 80 Plus 500 Watt Power Supply
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 (EVGA) 
1 Tb WD10EZEX-08M2NA0
DVDRAM GA50N
Realtek High Definition Audio

 

http://speccy.piriform.com/results/A7rlaJecuHofZqBHSnRVfs2


Edited by Aran, 23 October 2015 - 11:41 PM.


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#2 softeyes

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 12:09 AM

What about your monitor? When you are powered off, have you removed all monitor connections and re-seated everything?

Any chance you have your monitor drivers updated?  I'm thinking that "no signal" has something to do with the monitor?

 

It reads that you have done a very tedious job insurring everything else is working?

Just my thought..as BC works..there will be additional support responses.

 

Hang in there...



#3 technonymous

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 02:02 AM

After looking through speccy, your temps are normal. Your drives are healthy. The only concern are the things below in red. You're running a haswell 4790k which in it's specs says it only supports 1333mhz and 1600mhz memory. The memory you have is running 933mhz x2 @1866mhz this is likely the cause of your system hangs. I suggest going into bios and manually adjust the speed down to 1600Mhz for a while and see if that fixes the problems. Also, while you're in BIOS note down your voltages including the bios battery voltage and post that please. Speccy is not reporting the proper voltages. However, since you are having odd reboots a low bios battery can cause this. A bad power supply can also cause this. First start with addressing the memory issue and post your system voltages.

 

RAM 16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 933MHz (10-12-10-30)
 

FSP 1U 80 Plus 500 Watt Power Supply
 



#4 Aran

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 03:03 AM

Got my cherry - never made an adjustment in the BIOS before. Did some quick reading and set the RAM speed to 1600Mhz. It gave me a choice 1333, 1400 or 1600. I wasn't for sure about doing a screen shot in BIOS so the numbers are as follows:

VCORE 1.14

VRIN      1.80

CPU Core 1.126

CPU Graphics  1.00  * Looking at other settings & saw the Mobo O/B graphics were disabled. This explains why I could not get graphics with the graphics card removed.

                                     I left it disabled.

CPU RING  1.05

PCH Core  1.09

PCH 10   1.50

DRAM A/B 1.50

+3.3 = 3.284

+5.0 = 4.950

+12  = 12.24

Looks like whatever Speccy uses to gather voltages from my system is malfunctioning.

To me the 3, 5 & 12V #'s look good.

My PSU is not the standard form factor it is designed to fit into a narrow case.

Speccy below

Thank you in advance and All the Best,

Alan

http://speccy.piriform.com/results/Dq8icEyfhTwI8GasitqoFEh

 

EDIT - not two minutes after completing this post my computer restarted all by itself.

     Event Viewer listed Kernel-Power ID 41 Task (63)

? ? ?


Edited by Aran, 24 October 2015 - 03:58 AM.


#5 technonymous

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 11:19 AM

In your last post you didn't post battery voltage. Does the motherboard not have that in it's settings?? If not then I highly suggest pulling the battery and replacing it to be sure. CR2032 Watch battery.

 

#1 You need to check the batter first

.

#2 The Kernel-Power ID 41. That means the system had a power failure.

 

# 3 Those voltages are wtihin normal range. However, that doesn't mean that the PSU is still not failing. It can also be a motherbaord failing. Both of which have many capacitors on them that can fail. The only true way to test a PSU is to put it through a bench test. Only a computer or electronics repair shop that has the proper equipment can do that. Either have it checked out, or swap it with someone you know that has an extra one, or buy a new one. Don't attempt to open it. The voltages inside the caps are lethal. As far as the motherboard goes basically the same thing a computer shop needs to look at it, or you replace it. You can look it over visually and see if any of the small caps have their tops popped, leakages. etc The caps & voltages on a motherboard are not harmful. However, you should always disconnect power before doing anything.

 

If the bios battery has been checked or replaced and you still have problems then I would suggest dealing with the PSU first. If that doesn't fix it then the Motherboard. I added a link to a picture below showing what the bios battery looks like and beside it is caps with a red or blue marker on top. Those are the typical capacitors used on a motherboard that I speak of. Even though they visually look good they can still be bad. A computer repair shop can test further. However, any swelled popped tops or leakage (brown dried fluid) on top or below means they are bad and the motherboard needs to be repaired (recapped) or replaced. Some cases the repair cost can be as much as just buying new. The ectronics these days you just throw em in the recyle bin, unless you can find a local repair shop with decent prices. They may open it up and say oh here is problem! I can replace that high voltage cap for 20 bucks. Doesn't hurt to ask and support your local tech guys business!

 

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ-x4RFjlex5VfAY1YkV33MXM3MhElSDXgG-KIdRuKDBwMEXaAe

 

~Technonmous



#6 sparklestar

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 01:36 AM

My guess is you need a new power supply



#7 Aran

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 06:18 AM

In your last post you didn't post battery voltage. Does the motherboard not have that in it's settings?? If not then I highly suggest pulling the battery and replacing it to be sure. CR2032 Watch battery.

 

#1 You need to check the batter first

.

#2 The Kernel-Power ID 41. That means the system had a power failure.

 

# 3 Those voltages are wtihin normal range. However, that doesn't mean that the PSU is still not failing. It can also be a motherbaord failing. Both of which have many capacitors on them that can fail. The only true way to test a PSU is to put it through a bench test. Only a computer or electronics repair shop that has the proper equipment can do that. Either have it checked out, or swap it with someone you know that has an extra one, or buy a new one. Don't attempt to open it. The voltages inside the caps are lethal. As far as the motherboard goes basically the same thing a computer shop needs to look at it, or you replace it. You can look it over visually and see if any of the small caps have their tops popped, leakages. etc The caps & voltages on a motherboard are not harmful. However, you should always disconnect power before doing anything.

 

If the bios battery has been checked or replaced and you still have problems then I would suggest dealing with the PSU first. If that doesn't fix it then the Motherboard. I added a link to a picture below showing what the bios battery looks like and beside it is caps with a red or blue marker on top. Those are the typical capacitors used on a motherboard that I speak of. Even though they visually look good they can still be bad. A computer repair shop can test further. However, any swelled popped tops or leakage (brown dried fluid) on top or below means they are bad and the motherboard needs to be repaired (recapped) or replaced. Some cases the repair cost can be as much as just buying new. The ectronics these days you just throw em in the recyle bin, unless you can find a local repair shop with decent prices. They may open it up and say oh here is problem! I can replace that high voltage cap for 20 bucks. Doesn't hurt to ask and support your local tech guys business!

 

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ-x4RFjlex5VfAY1YkV33MXM3MhElSDXgG-KIdRuKDBwMEXaAe

 

~Technonmous

Technonmous,

I cannot find the CMOS batt voltage in the BIOS screens.. In looking at pics of the Motherboard, it is not the usual setup I am used to seeing in, say, an ATX board where the batt snaps into place on the board - but is in a black package running two wires and plugged into the board. I shall obtain another battery and try replacing it.

I have left the computer on since I obtained the voltages I posted previously and as of this writing I am not aware of any graphics loss.

Fingers are crossed, and Thank You for your support.

All The Best,

Alan



#8 Aran

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 05:17 PM

Since applying the BIOS change the computer has been stable for the past 5 days. Aside from the 1 uncommanded shutdown on the initial reboot the have been no restarts or Video device driver errors. Something else I am going to implement - The PSU I have is rated at 115 VAC input. Our voltage here in Japan is 100V nominal.This could explain why the PSU is suddenly switching off. I have rec'd the suggestion to install a step up transformer to help with any input voltage fluctuations that may occur.  



#9 technonymous

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 08:04 PM

How much stuff are you running all together on the circuit? A heater can saturate the wattage just itself. Do you get tripped breakers often?



#10 Aran

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 10:52 PM

The circuit carries a variety of electrics - all computer functions and kitchen appliances. Our Gaijin Jyutaku (house for foreigners) was built in the early 60's. I had to ground the wall outlets to the conduit (we have solid concrete walls) and it all runs to a ground installed at the fuse box by the electric Co. We do not have traditional screw in fuses but wire fuses mounted in knife switches. no problem with the fuses blowing unless a gecko goes someplace he shouldn't. It is all very 1940's, not all walls have outlets and I have to remain aware about the loads being placed on the outlets. At the other end of the spectrum we have fiber optic cable for internet and it is very fast.

#11 technonymous

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 11:47 PM

There has been all kinds of discussions on what is good and what is bad on wiring. There are so many opinions it's a deep subject. Actually it is bad to bond to conduit. Earth ground will not clear a fault. It must be a wire going back to the panels grounding rod.



#12 Aran

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Posted 01 November 2015 - 03:42 AM

There is no third wire in the conduit. Two wires. The conduit is grounded in the panel. The other option I had was to use a 3 To 2 adapter on the plug and screw the green terminal wire to the face plate screw. Or cut the plug so it would fit a 2 slot receptacle. The makeshift set up I have is cleaner. I rent this place so when we leave I just put the original 2 prong receptacle back in. Maybe I should undo it? The suggestion for the transformer came about since FSU stated 115 vac input not something like 100 - 120 vac. I dunno, I thought it worth a shot before ordering a PSU.

#13 technonymous

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Posted 01 November 2015 - 08:30 AM

Well here in the states you can't run a wire single it has to run in the wire conduit or same railway of the rest of the wires. Reason for that is if someone cuts the wire you lose your ground. Grounding to flex conduit is pointless because it flexes. so it's a bad connection all around. Wish I had a whiteboard to draw you a diagram & reason why you don't want to bond to like a water pipe. I'll try...

 

[Outlet]====Green wire=======|======Water Pipe===========|==========Earth Soil==============|========ROD========[Panel]

 

As you can see there is a very poor connection from the water pipe to the rod & nothing but dirt. In a electrical shock scenario this would never trip the breaker and if it did the person being shocked would be dead long before that ever happens. Just wanted to make that clear. That is the reason to make sure you have a copper wire all the way to a panels grounding bus bar. That way the breaker heats and trips. So what do you do with old worn out two prong outlets? Replace them with a 3 prong ground fault interrupters. Even though they are not Earth grounded they will still give protection as the circuitry in them will trip the breaker at the outlet. You can double this protection placing GFI's in the panel as well. Any power strip plugged into a GFI will also give protection to those. There is also a type called a Arc GFI and it senses electrical arcs in the wires in the home and will trip. This is good with older homes with poor wring mix of aluminum and copper wiring. Copper twisted to aluminum creates a galvanic reaction and causes corrosion thus leading to poor connection sparks and fire. Aluminum must be pressure crimped to copper never twisted and then covered with die electric grease once it's crimped. A earth ground doesn't really protect from a person being shocked all that well. Sure the panel breaker will heat up eventually, but not as fast as you would think. A GFI will instantly trip.

 

There is a caveat to GFI though. GFI must be tested all the time so you know the circuit in them are good and still functioning properly. They can still work and give full load but, the electronic tripping mechanism can be faulty inside it. Here in the states things are more regulated. Going all GFI in the home is a best, but it comes with a price tag at 20-30 dollars a piece. They are really good to have with children as they like to poke things into them. Some of them GFI even have a safety lock out shield if nothing is plugged into it.

 

Now with your problem I just wanted to know how much you have on the circuit. 100volts X 15 amps is 1500 watts. A oil heater on full power can draw that itself. A computer can be 60 or higher. Lights another 60. So if you got a lot on the circuit it adds up fast. Here in the US the outlets are 15 amp breaker @115-126VAC. So 120 x 15 = 1800 watts. A oil heater drawing 1500 plus a light and computer would be somewhere in the neighborhood 1620 or more. In theory 12 gauge wiring can handle up to 2400 watts, but to get that you would have to raise the amps to 20 and generally that is bad all around. For wiring getting hot causing a house fire and electric shock from 20amps will likely stop your heart. So yeah the PSU is under-volted and probably working really hard. A high end PC needs like a 600-850 watt PSU. It's best to get a green energy Gold or Platinum rated one instead of silver or bronze PSU. They are generally better voltage regulated anyways and more energy efficient. If you can find one that is 100-120VAC that would be ideal. Try and maybe lower the PSU watts 350-450 if you can get away with it. The computer may not like that very well and you would be dealing with the same problems.


Edited by technonymous, 01 November 2015 - 08:37 AM.


#14 Aran

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 06:40 AM

Apparently the problem is twofold. I removed the graphics card and my event viewer cleared right up. Checked the house circuit the computer is wired to an discovered the hot/cold water dispenser and the all the kitchen appliances are on the same circuit. Moved the surge protector to another outlet and for two weeks now no shutdowns. Sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees - Thank You technonymous



#15 mjd420nova

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 04:10 PM

Rather than spend the money on a step up transformer, a Variac may be a better option.  It would allow you a 25 volt boost but care has to be taken to insure the current ratings aren't exceeded.  A lower voltage needs more current to meet the normal needs.






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