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Win10 Home downgrade rights limited to 30 days?


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#1 brainout

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 04:49 PM

Was just commenting in another article with a guy named Captain555, and he claims that one of his computer customers who had Win10 Home waiting longer than 30 days and now no longer has downgrade rights.  The official Win10 EULA I have is the only one MSFT offers online that I can find, here, and it looks much like the Win10 Pro license I have on my machine, yet like Home in that updates are automatic (the 'Home' language for updates, rather than the 'Pro' language we all have in our Insider licenses).  So I assumed it was a Home Retail version, and thus that Paragraph 7 which is on downgrade rights, would be in the download version as well that folks got.

 

But he says no.  He says (in that first link, search on the text)

 

I've experience it myself. One of my customers upgrade to 10 and after 30 days the option to downgrade was remove in his settings. But he wanted to go back to 7 anyway. So I did and his 7 license would not activate, did the phone activation was told that 7 license was not valid anymore. He had to go back to 10, and he now has to live with it.

 

So is this anyone else's experience, too?  That would be a really important thing to know, da?  Nyet?

 

If what he says is true, then Windows 10 is FAR FAR FAR worse than I thought.  This is unconscionable.


Edited by brainout, 01 October 2015 - 04:55 PM.

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#2 JohnC_21

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 05:12 PM

I posted in another thread where I found a link where a poster said after 30 days you could not revert back even if you had an image as Microsoft essentially blacklists the previous OS key. This just confirms it. 



#3 brainout

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 05:26 PM

Golly, I hope that's not true anymore.  If so, it's the death of Windows 10.  Seriously.  People will feel cheated.  I absolutely cannot support it under any circumstances, now, if this remains true.  The last possible okay for Win10 was for a private user who kept no confidential data on others, who didn't care if his own data was known by MSFT.  Cuz 30 days is not enough to know whether to keep it, since you need more than that just to evaluate the effect of mandatory updates.

 

Just when I think the truth about Win10 licensing can't get any worse, I learn stuff like this.  :smash:

 

Is there anyone here in BC who has Win10 Home and can call up its LICENSE?  The license will be in Windows\System32\license.rtf.  I don't have the Home version, so I don't know.  We need SOURCE TEXT.


Edited by brainout, 01 October 2015 - 05:35 PM.

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#4 JohnC_21

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 05:32 PM

I would really like to get some confirmation on it. Microsoft should come out with some statement but transparency on Windows 10 is non-existent.



#5 leithanne

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 07:05 PM

I would, too, John. I've read countless articles where they tell you how to do it, so I assume they believe it to be possible, but I can't find a clear statement from Microsoft. I wish Microsoft spoke English.



#6 leithanne

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 07:29 PM

Does this count? It's a retail version, but....

 

 

Og5Kt8I.png

 

Link



#7 brainout

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 07:55 PM

Okay, I posted in the latest ZDnet article a request for someone to come here, if he/she has a copy of the actual Home License, or knows where the link is.  We need source text, not hearsay or third party claims.

 

God knows so many lies have been told about God and the Bible, I sure don't want to be guilty telling/believing lies about computer 'gods' (OS makers) and their 'bibles'.  Just the facts, please.  Then we can all know and debate/discuss whatever.

 

I tried searching online, but the alleged and really awful horrible Windows Store (which prompts you to sign up for its ugly newsletter every five seconds while you're trying to navigate) claims to have it but the search never reveals the result.


Edited by brainout, 01 October 2015 - 08:02 PM.

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#8 Condobloke

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 08:02 PM

Truth, Consistency, Transparency, speaking plain english, and Microsoft.....is a contradiction in terms.


Condobloke ...Outback Australian  fed up with Windows antics...??....LINUX IS THE ANSWER....I USE LINUX MINT 18.3  EXCLUSIVELY.

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#9 jonuk76

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 11:25 PM

Here is one (Win 10 Home, upgraded from Retail 8.1).

Attached Files


7sbvuf-6.png


#10 brainout

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 03:07 AM

Thank you, jonuk76 -- that file reads exactly the same as the online license, and has NO EXPIRATION, explictly:  For it says (I bolded the last sentence, else unaltered),

 

7. Downgrade Rights. If you acquired a device from a manufacturer or installer with a Professional version of Windows preinstalled on it, you may use either a Windows 8.1 Pro or Windows 7 Professional version, but only for so long as Microsoft provides support for that earlier version as set forth in (aka.ms/windowslifecycle). This agreement applies to your use of the earlier versions. If the earlier version includes different components, any terms for those components in the agreement that comes with the earlier version apply to your use of such components. Neither the manufacturer or installer, nor Microsoft, is obligated to supply earlier versions to you. You must obtain the earlier version separately, for which you may be charged a fee. At any time, you may replace an earlier version with the version you originally acquired.

 

 

So where does the 30 day limit come from?  It's not part of the EULA.  Is that only for the UK?

 

This is driving me nuts.  I might be gone for a few days, will try to check in.


Edited by brainout, 02 October 2015 - 03:10 AM.

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#11 Union_Thug

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 03:47 AM

I posted in another thread where I found a link where a poster said after 30 days you could not revert back even if you had an image as Microsoft essentially blacklists the previous OS key. This just confirms it. 

 

This is not the result I experienced. I upgraded 8.1 Dell OEM-DM (keys are issued to manufacturers - Dell, Acer etc - and flashed into the firmware at the factory) on 7/29 and have reverted several times to 8.1 using  images (7/29 & 9/26) and by clean re-installing with no problem... Windows automagically activated every time. 

 

I haven't done so with 7 (also Dell OEM)


Edited by Union_Thug, 02 October 2015 - 05:22 AM.


#12 Union_Thug

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 04:03 AM

So where does the 30 day limit come from?  It's not part of the EULA....

This is driving me nuts...


I believe that the 30 day "timebomb" applies to the option to "Go back to a previous version of Windows" in Settings > Update & Security > Recovery (windows.old folder):

 

Spoiler

 

After the upgrade to Windows 10, what will happen with my previous operating system?

After upgrading your computer will boot into Windows 10 and the old operating system will stay archived inside the Windows.old folder on the installation drive.

 

 

Excellent FAQ, dunno if it's "Official" but very thorough IMHO: http://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-questions-and-answers-you-need-know-upgrading

 

HTH :)



#13 brainout

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 12:55 PM

Okay, but that's not the EULA.  The EULA says you can always revert.  I interpreted the 30 days to only mean that the windows.old file won't be able to revert after that time, so you'd need a backup or image or clone to restore the previous version, else a new CD with the OS.  Most folks I've read interpret it the same way.

 

So when Captain555 said it couldn't be reverted, that the old LICENSE was blacklisted, that's a real problem.  It means MSFT has violated the EULA.  Perhaps mistakenly, perhaps the guy's third party story is inaccurate, I don't know.  But JohnC_21 posted that he'd seen another such story too, so we really need to know.

 

If like me you have people asking you computer advice, then you want to be able to give it accurately.  For anyone curating third-party data, the answer to 'should I get Windows10' or 'use Office 365' has to be NO NO NO NO.  But for those not burdened with that responsibility?  Woulda been 'maybe yes', but if the 30 days is being applied on purpose in violation of the EULA, then the answer will have to be BOYCOTT, not merely no.

 

Millions are affected by this.  We can't be idle or dismissive.


Edited by brainout, 02 October 2015 - 12:57 PM.

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#14 Scoop8

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 03:35 PM

Union_Thug

 

Thanks for the Win 10 FAQ link.

 

This part was of particular interest to me in the FAQ:

 

Can I dual boot the free upgrade of Windows 10 with my previous version of the operating system?

 

No. Upgrading to Windows 10 doesn't free up your previous license, so you cannot install your previous version on another machine or in a dual-boot configuration. The upgrade requires installing Windows 10 on top of a valid version of Windows 7 or Windows 8 installation to continue with the upgrade process.

 

Of note to me is there's no mention of using separate HDD's for running the user's previous Win OS and the upgraded Win 10 OS using Cloned or Image-restored HDD paths.

 

I didn't put much weight on this being omitted since as most here know, Cloning and Imaging is often not mentioned as a PC rollback path in articles similar to this FAQ article.

 

 

brainout

 

I started a thread over at the Win 10 Forums about this issue.  I got some interesting replies.  Here's the thread link:

 

Rollback via Cloned HDD or Image Restore after 30 days - Experiences?

 

Five of my personal Win 10 hurdles appear to have been cleared about the upgrade.  I haven't decided about upgrading during the 1-year free time period yet as I'm also interested in the privacy angle regarding Win 10 but these 5 points might have been virtual deal breakers for me but seem to have been answered favorably regarding my possible decision to upgrade.

 

 

- Rollback via Clone or full-HDD Image restoration will work, after the 30-day time period expires, according to the Win 10 members that posted in the thread.

 

As Union_Thug mentioned in his post, the 30-day period references the "Windows Old" rollback path and not reverting via a Cloned (or Image-restored) HDD.

 

 

- Previous Win OS license/keys:  According to the Win 10 members, the previous Win 7 / 8.1 keys aren't invalidated after the Win 10 upgrade.

 

 

- Inbedded Keys in the Firmware (MoBo's):  Here's a post from the thread replying to my question about this:

 

The future-upgraded Win 10 Key won't be stored in firmware on ANY motherboard. All Windows 10 upgrades from Windows 7/8/8.1 get the same product keys (depending on the version; home, pro, etc.). No version of Windows has ever stored Product Keys to motherboard firmware. Manufacturers with OEM licenses started storing product keys in bios beginning with Windows 8 - but the Windows operating system never has, and still doesn't.

 

 

- Win 10 and replacing the OS HDD:  According to the Win 10 forum members in that thread, there isn't anything unique about Win 10 and HDD replacements as compared to previous Win OS versions.

 

I'd read some mention in this forum about it.  If this had been an issue, it would not fly with me as I'm a HDD backup nerd :) and have been Cloning periodically (with occasional Imaging) for about 4 years with almost no issues.  I encountered 2 Cloning failures of about 125 but discovered the reason for the 2 errors.  The failure reason was interesting but not on topic here.

 

Every Win PC user needs the option of replacing the OS HDD at any time and without restrictions, in my view.  The reasons are numerous and are old news for members here; HDD failures, rollback from malicious presences, user errors, bad downloads, verifying Cloned or Image-restored HDD's, etc.

 

 

- Running the previous Win version and Win 10 using independent HDD's on the same PC:

 

Several Win 10 Forum members there have been running their previous Win OS and Win 10, using separate HDD's (only 1 OS HDD installed in the PC at a time), without issue during the Win 10 beta build testing period.

 

According to one member's post (see post #4 in the linked thread), it's working with the general release version.

 

Unless MS had changed that with the general release version, this should work on a genuine Win PC.  I want this option as I plan on running Win 7 while familiarizing myself with Win 10 at my own pace, if I decide to upgrade.



#15 leithanne

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 04:21 PM

Thanks, Scoop. I'm aware of Brink's reputation, and, on his say-so, consider this solved in the most satisfactory manner.






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