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Games/ OCCT PSU test rebooting PC ( PSU Problem?)


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#1 Eadan

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 10:45 PM

As the title says my PC started rebooting during games, and after running many stress tests and following suggestions, I finally found a way to replicate the problem. When I run OCCT PSU stress test, my PC reboots within a second. It was unexpected since running Prime 95 together with Furmark didn't cause any reboots.

Anyway, do you think the issue is my PSU? I already have a new graphics card arriving within 10 days. How should I go from here to find the issue?

Edit: My correct specs here: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Xhn9D3


Edited by Eadan, 24 September 2015 - 10:32 AM.


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#2 jhayz

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 12:53 AM

The only initial suggestions I could give aside from the PSU are, check for a newer BIOS version for your motherboard and any related components such as Video, sound card,USB, hard drive and network drivers. Any chance of overclocking should be temporarily reverted just in case. By the way, :welcome: to Bleeping Computer Community.


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#3 Eadan

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 04:48 AM

Thanks for the reply. I already have the latest bios 3602 for my asus p8p67. I tried a version from a year earlier and the issue still presisted. I have the latest drivers from mo-bo website, and I update nvidia drivers as it notifies me. I tried running driver updater software ( Driver Booster 2 free version) and it updated some more drivers. I read it finds correct drivers and I was careful anyway while updating drivers with it. Also reverted the overclock already. Any other suggestions?

 

I will post again if there is any development.


Edited by Eadan, 24 September 2015 - 07:03 AM.


#4 Eadan

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 07:59 AM

I underclocked my GPU and the OCCT PSU test doesn't seem to cause any reboots.

Stock -->             Gpu VCore:1.012V Core clock: 880 Memory Clock: 2100

Underclocked--> Gpu VCore: 0.95V  Core Clock:500 Memory Clock:1500

 

I am running the test for 3 minutes for now, since originally it resulted in immediate reboot.

 

Btw GPU temperature with either setup doesn't go above 55C if you are worried about overheating.

 

What does it mean? Should I try running tests under different settings like CPU OC'ed and such? The software already saves plots of a wide variety of voltages/temperatures/clocks, as well as taking a screenshot showing all, so I can post them here if anyone is willing to take a look. Here is the screenshot for underclocked settings:http://imgur.com/PS6GmdD

 

Edit:  With GPU underclocked, I overclocked the CPU and still didn't get a reboot during test: http://imgur.com/oXMxTbA

Stock CPU-->  Max Vcore: around 1.2V,  Core clock:3.3Ghz

Overcloked--> Max Vcore: 1.4V,             Core clock:4.5Ghz


Edited by Eadan, 24 September 2015 - 08:27 AM.


#5 jonuk76

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 09:03 AM

Well..  We know that particular test (at standard, non overclocked speeds?) results in reboots.  Underclocking the GPU will mean it draws less power (on the 12v rails).  All the temperatures look perfectly fine.

 

So if it doesn't have the issue while the GPU is underclocked, that suggests it is either GPU or PSU related.  The nature of the failure, immediate reboots with no error message, points more to the power supply starting to fail IMO.  How old is the PSU?  It's good quality, but after a few years of continuous use their chances of failure become a lot higher.

 

The spec you've linked to shows a GTX970, while the screenshot shows a GTX560 Ti.  Presumably the GTX970 is the one you mention you've ordered as a replacement?


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#6 Eadan

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 10:31 AM

Well..  We know that particular test (at standard, non overclocked speeds?) results in reboots.  Underclocking the GPU will mean it draws less power (on the 12v rails).  All the temperatures look perfectly fine.

 

So if it doesn't have the issue while the GPU is underclocked, that suggests it is either GPU or PSU related.  The nature of the failure, immediate reboots with no error message, points more to the power supply starting to fail IMO.  How old is the PSU?  It's good quality, but after a few years of continuous use their chances of failure become a lot higher.

 

The spec you've linked to shows a GTX970, while the screenshot shows a GTX560 Ti.  Presumably the GTX970 is the one you mention you've ordered as a replacement?

 

Yes, I ordered the gtx970 as a replacement. My current GPU is MSI gtx560-Ti Twin Frozr II/OC. I will update the specs so it isn't misleading. This is the correct specs link: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Xhn9D3

The PSU is 4 years old. If it is most likely either my PSU or GPU, I can try RMA the PSU, so both possible causes will be eliminated. I just want a little more confirmation that my PSU may be failing before I invest in the abroad shipping fees and hassle.

 

Edit: I also tried keeping GPU VCore at the stock value and only decreasing clocks, and again there were no reboots. I thought only the voltage requirement of the GPU would effect the PSU, am I wrong? Here is the screenshot with stock voltage gpu, but underclocked (VIN0 is GPU VCore): http://imgur.com/wChY1IT


Edited by Eadan, 24 September 2015 - 10:39 AM.


#7 Eadan

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 07:20 PM

I tried running a test for 20 minutes with stock GPU Vcore (1.012V), but underclocked core (500Mhz) and memory clocks (1500MHz) . I noticed there are some interesting things happening with the plots. Mostly the CPU usage was 100%, but GPU Vcore was 0.95V, core clock 405 Mhz and memory clock 325 Mhz, but every 5 minute for 10-20 seconds the CPU usage would drop to 30%, GPU Vcore rise to 1.012V, and core and memory clocks would reach the set values (500MHz and 1500MHz).

Then I inspected the plots and noticed many unordinary things happening in those intervals. I will provide a link to all these plots at the end of the post, but here is a summary: It seems CPU Vcore rised by 0.05V when CPU usage dropped to %30. ( Note: I later tried with an overclocked CPU, with all throttling and monitor features turned off to make sure it wasn't intentionally done by mo-bo, and seems it wasn't.) Also the AVCC (+3.3V) seems to fluctuare between 3.33 and 3.31, but when the CPU usage drops to 30%, AVCC stays perfectly stable.

In the next test I did with the overclocked CPU (from 3.3Ghz to 4.5Ghz, with throttling and monitors turned off) the plots were very much alike. This behaviour might be intended by the test, but I don't think they would want to run only CPU or GPU at its max at a time when they are testing PSU stability. Anyway, here are all plots:
4 unordinary plots : Postimage.org / gallery - 2015 09 25 01h11 Voltage 12 V, 2015 09 25 01h11 Voltage AVCC
A screenshot of the behaviour: View image: 2
All plots for CPU at stock: Postimage.org / gallery - 2015 09 24 23h12 Cpu Usage CPU Usage, 2015 09 24 23h12 Fan AUXFANIN0
All plots for CPU overclocked: Postimage.org / gallery - 2015 09 25 01h11 Cpu Usage CPU Usage, 2015 09 25 01h11 Fan AUXFANIN0


Edited by Eadan, 24 September 2015 - 07:30 PM.


#8 jonuk76

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 08:22 PM

 

<snip>

Yes, I ordered the gtx970 as a replacement. My current GPU is MSI gtx560-Ti Twin Frozr II/OC. I will update the specs so it isn't misleading. This is the correct specs link: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Xhn9D3

The PSU is 4 years old. If it is most likely either my PSU or GPU, I can try RMA the PSU, so both possible causes will be eliminated. I just want a little more confirmation that my PSU may be failing before I invest in the abroad shipping fees and hassle.

 

Edit: I also tried keeping GPU VCore at the stock value and only decreasing clocks, and again there were no reboots. I thought only the voltage requirement of the GPU would effect the PSU, am I wrong? Here is the screenshot with stock voltage gpu, but underclocked (VIN0 is GPU VCore): http://imgur.com/wChY1IT

 

 

 

Pretty sure that the frequency affects the power requirement (and therefore PSU load also).  At a higher frequency it's doing more "work" in a given time and therefore both heat output and power use increase.  Increasing vcore increases power use quite dramatically though.

 

The PSU shutting off completely is a clear indication of a PSU problem, but where it's rebooting, you're right, there could be other causes. You could buy a digital PSU tester and monitor the voltages (something like this maybe).  You can also use a normal multimeter, but be very careful not to short anything with the probes.  There's limits to what you can achieve with software monitoring because the computer crashes at precisely the moment where you need it to be monitoring most!

 

 

I tried running a test for 20 minutes with stock GPU Vcore (1.012V), but underclocked core (500Mhz) and memory clocks (1500MHz) . I noticed there are some interesting things happening with the plots. Mostly the CPU usage was 100%, but GPU Vcore was 0.95V, core clock 405 Mhz and memory clock 325 Mhz, but every 5 minute for 10-20 seconds the CPU usage would drop to 30%, GPU Vcore rise to 1.012V, and core and memory clocks would reach the set values (500MHz and 1500MHz).

Then I inspected the plots and noticed many unordinary things happening in those intervals. I will provide a link to all these plots at the end of the post, but here is a summary: It seems CPU Vcore rised by 0.05V when CPU usage dropped to %30. ( Note: I later tried with an overclocked CPU, with all throttling and monitor features turned off to make sure it wasn't intentionally done by mo-bo, and seems it wasn't.) Also the AVCC (+3.3V) seems to fluctuare between 3.33 and 3.31, but when the CPU usage drops to 30%, AVCC stays perfectly stable.

In the next test I did with the overclocked CPU (from 3.3Ghz to 4.5Ghz, with throttling and monitors turned off) the plots were very much alike. This behaviour might be intended by the test, but I don't think they would want to run only CPU or GPU at its max at a time when they are testing PSU stability. Anyway, here are all plots:
4 unordinary plots : Postimage.org / gallery - 2015 09 25 01h11 Voltage 12 V, 2015 09 25 01h11 Voltage AVCC
A screenshot of the behaviour: View image: 2
All plots for CPU at stock: Postimage.org / gallery - 2015 09 24 23h12 Cpu Usage CPU Usage, 2015 09 24 23h12 Fan AUXFANIN0
All plots for CPU overclocked: Postimage.org / gallery - 2015 09 25 01h11 Cpu Usage CPU Usage, 2015 09 25 01h11 Fan AUXFANIN0

 

I'll have a look at these in a bit.


7sbvuf-6.png


#9 Eadan

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Posted 26 September 2015 - 03:33 PM

Seems the issue is resolved. I reassambled the PC, and changed sockets and connectors with spare ones. Also changed the extension cord and the wall outlet. Don't know which was casuing the reboots, but it seems fixed now. If I ever find the cause I will update this thread so people with the same issue can see. Thanks for your help.


Edited by Eadan, 26 September 2015 - 03:34 PM.


#10 jonuk76

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Posted 26 September 2015 - 04:24 PM

Interesting.  Sometimes these things don't have any easy explanations!  Glad it appears to be sorted out anyway.  Re-making connections might itself be enough to fix issues in some cases.

 

Regarding the GPU/CPU speed issues referred to in a previous post, I understood that there are several "performance levels" programmed into all GPU's.  There would at least be a low performance mode, where the frequency and vcore is dropped to a low level, which will be sufficient for providing basic desktop acceleration, desktop effects etc.  And a high performance mode, where it operates at full speed, for example when running a busy scene in a 3D game.  And more than likely one or more intermediate performance levels where the workload (and speed and voltage) is between the two.  I would guess what you are seeing in the graphs is simply the GPU shifting from one performance level to another, and not anything to be overly concerned with.

 

I'm not familiar with exactly what sort of loads the PSU test in that software creates, but it doesn't look as simple as hammering the GPU and CPU simultaneously, which would be expected to cause maximum power draw.


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#11 Eadan

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Posted 26 September 2015 - 05:51 PM

Yeah, I checked performance levels of the GPU and it seems GPU bios determines them. I tried deleting all Nvidia drives, upgrading GPU bios and then reinstalling the drivers but it didnt help with rebooting. I tried reassambling as a last resort before formatting the PC.

 

I was afraid the PC wouldn't even boot up after I was finished. I actually removed intel p67 chip's heatsink (didn't know what it was at the time) just to clean the dust under it, and noticed there was some pink, gum like thermal paste which took me an hour to clean and even then not completely. Also forgot to put "washers" on the clips of the CPU heatsink, and when I was reinstalling the back plate and applying pressure while tightening the screws I heard a "crack" sound.Luckily it wasn't the processor. Moved most connectors that were going around the chasis to inside the chasis in case they could be smashed by the side panels of the case. This seems to increase temperatures by 2-3 C for CPU under load, even with the newly applied thermal paste, so I might try rerouting them. Someone had suggested checking tilted capacitors, and there were some that I barely pushed to correct angles but I don't think they were the problem. I made sure no cables inside the case may touch any hardware by tieing them to whatever available. Also power surges and outages are relatively common where I live, so I changed the 10 year old 6-outlet power strip I was using and the wall outlet I was connecting it to.

 

Again I don't know which of the above solved the issue, but I had no reboots in 3D mark tests, game main menus (:lol:) or OCCT PSU test which always caused reboots earlier.



#12 jhayz

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Posted 26 September 2015 - 09:59 PM

Thank you for posting back your solution Eadan as users and visitors of BC may find your thread helpful. :thumbup2:


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#13 sparklestar

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Posted 27 September 2015 - 05:06 AM

I recommend you buy a UPS, you'll love it when the common outages happen it saves the pc from rebooting during those 1 second outages.



#14 Eadan

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 03:27 AM

Apparantly the issue wasn't solved completely. I got my new gtx 970 gaming 4g, run some benchmarks (Heaven Unigine) etc. to make sure it works. But when I tried playing Star Wars battlefront today, my pc seems to reboot occasionally during game menus but never during the actual gameplay. I monitor CPU and GPU temps and they are always below 60 C. I read my graphics card may cause crashes while transitioning from load to idle due to sudden voltage drops but it shouldn't result in a reboot as far as I know.
I just started playing witcher 3 to see what fps I will get, now I will try actually playing the game to see if I get reboots in this game as well, and update this thread..

Btw Corsair accepted my RMA request for the PSU, but sending it will still take some time so I want to avoid it if possible. What do you think may cause the PC to reboot at game menus particularly?

 

Edit: Reverting the overclock seems to fix the issue. Overclocked settings were 110% power limit, +140 core clock and +500 Memory clock with no additional voltage in MSI afterburner. These settings I found at:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014/09/29/msi_geforce_g...
This overclock was stable for half an hour under Heaven benchmark . No crash, artifacts or throttling that I noticed, but there was a popping sound with no errors periodically which I assumed was part of the benchmark.


Edited by Eadan, 09 October 2015 - 07:38 AM.


#15 dc3

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 02:50 PM

If you ever have any question about your PSU rail voltages being off you can use the tutorial below to test the rail voltages.

 

 
Reading and Testing Desktop PSU Rail Voltages
 
Caution: Please read the following before continuing.
 
 
* Since it will be necessary for your computer to be on during this procedure, you need to be aware that you will be working with live 12Volt DC potentials, which if handled improperly may lead to electrical shock. 
 
* There are electronics inside the case that are very susceptible to electrostatic discharges. To protect your computer, touch the metal of the case to discharge yourself of any electrostatic charges before touching any of the components inside.
 
* If you are not comfortable doing this procedure, then I would suggest that you not use this tutorial. The risks involved are minimal, but are there nevertheless. Anyone who uses this tutorial will be doing so at their own risk.
 
 
There are two devices commonly used to read the rail voltages: a PSU tester, and a multimeter. 
 
The PSU tester is the easiest to use since all that is necessary is to plug the different connectors into the tester and read the results on the LCD display. The problem with most of these is that they only perform a pass/fail test.  They will not provide you with actual voltage readings.
 
There are a variety of multiple meters, but this tutorial will address Analog and Digital multimeters. The advantage of these meters is that you will be able to obtain accurate real time voltage readings.
 
For those of you who wish to know more about multimeters there is an excellent article in Wikipedia.
 
 
Analog Multimeter
 
th_analogedited.jpg
 
 
An Analog multimeter is a little more complicated to use. Both Analog and Digital multimeters need to be set to the appropriate voltage, but with an Analog multimeter, you will need to choose the voltage range and must read the proper scale. 
 
The Analog multimeter uses a needle display which moves from 0 across the scale until it reaches the voltage being tested. This multimeter has five major linear divisions with multiple scales to read a variety of ranges. An example would be three different ranges. The first is graduated in increments of 0 through 5, the second, 0 through 10, and the third, 0 through 25. Each of these ranges are subdivided into divisions that are graduated into tenths. In order to read 12 volts the 0 through 25 range would be the appropriate one. 
 
Because DC voltage has positive and negative potentials this device is polar sensitive, this means that if you reverse the two probes when reading a positive DC voltage it will read as a negative voltage. This is actually necessary to read negative DC voltages. The two probes are differentiated by their color, Black (negative), and Red (positive). To read a positive DC voltage, the correct probes must be used with their corresponding potentials (positive to positive and negative to negative). 
 
With the probes being used normally to read a negative DC voltage, the needle moves from the 0 to the left, "pegging" the needle. By reversing the probes you can properly read the negative voltages.
 
Digital Multimeter
 
th_digitalmeteredited.jpg
 
 
The Digital multimeter (DMM) is much simpler to use. As was mentioned previously, you will need to set the appropriate voltage. One of the advantages is that the DMM has an LCD display with a numeric readout, so there are not any multiple scales to read. Another advantage is that most DMMs are autoranging when reading voltages, which means that you will not need to set the range with these DMMs. A DMM will read both positive and negative DC voltages and display them correctly. When reading a negative voltage, a minus sign will appear on the display before the numeric value. This still is a polar sensitive device, so you will still need to use the positive and negative probes with their corresponding potentials. 
 
There are five different DC rail voltages which are color coded. The Black wires are always negative.
 
Yellow +12VDC
 
Blue -12VDC
 
Red +5VDC
 
White -5VDC
 
Orange +3.3VDC
 
There are only three voltages that can be measured easily without disconnecting the 20/24 pin connector from the motherboard: +12V, +5V, and +3.3V.
 
The +12V and +5V voltages can be read from a four pin Molex power connector.
 
Four pin Molex power connector
 
th_250px-Molex_female_connector.jpg
 
 
The same voltages can be taken from a four pin SATA power connector, but in order to read the +3.3V you will need to read this from a five pin SATA power connector as seen below.
 
Five pin SATA power connector.
 
th_sata-power-cable.jpg
 
To read these voltages you will need to insert the Black (-) probe into any of the black  sockets, and insert the Red (+) probe in the different colored voltage sockets.   To read the voltages from a SATA power connector it is easiest to insert the probes into the bac k of the connector where the wires enter.  Unfortunately the sockets of the modular SATA power connectors are not accessible from the back, so the readings will need to be made from the socket side.  Some probes are going to be too large to fit in these sockets, so you may need to insert a piece of wire into the socket of which you want to read the voltage of and place the probe on this for your reading.  To reduce the potential of creating a short I would suggest taking the ground potential from another connector so that the two wires will remain physically separated.
 
Caution:  It is very important to make sure that you don't allow the two probes to touch each other when taking the voltage readings.  This will cause a short which could damage the PSU or other components.
 
To get the most accurate readings of the rail voltages it is important that there be a load on the PSU.  Running a game or burning a DVD is enough to do this.   If you want a program with will put a load on, I would suggest downloading Prime95 and run the Just Stress Test for this purpose. This program was designed to be used by overclockers to put a full load on the RAM and CPU to determine the stability of their overclocking.  Because of this it will put stress on the CPU and RAM which will create higher than normal temperatures.  For this reason I would suggest not running this program any longer than is necessary.  I would also suggest that an inspection be made of the interior of the case to make sure that there isn’t an accumulation of dust which would impede adequate cooling.  Pay special attention to the heat sink and fan assembly on the CPU.  If there is a dedicated graphics card with a fan installed on it, look at this fan as well.      
 
 
Readings should not have variances larger than +/- five percent.  
 
Maximum.........Minimum
12.6V.................11.4V
5.25V.................4.75V
3.47V.................3.14V

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