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I have a stupid question!


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#1 Norseman143

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 07:41 PM

Have you ever started wondering about something and tried to find the answer, just out of curiosity?

 

Anyway, I have a basic understanding of how the internet works, but have been wondering where and how information on the internet is stored and accessed

 

I googled servers and read as much as I could understand of the Techno speak,  that only geeks can understand. But I got the Gist of it

 

Then I read about main frame computers,and got a basic understanding of that

 

 

My questions are,

 

For example,Bleeping Computer,is a forum on the internet.Where does BCs information stored? Is it on a mainframe computer some where? or does it live on a server somewhere?

 

How is the information stored on either the computer/Server?

 

I really doubt there are a bunch of hard drives saving the info and I know they dont use big reals of magnetic tape like you see in the old computer history shows you see on history channel

 

OK so after reading about Servers and Mainframe computers, Then I started wondering where are all those servers stored? Do big businesses have them? or is there a big room filled with servers somewhere

 

I know the questions sound kind of silly to you tech savoy people, but I have been wondering about that for years,

 

Please dumb it down so I can understand.............Thanks



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#2 gigawert

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 09:29 PM

I'm pretty sure that Bleeping Computer stores it's info on hard drives on its own servers, probably 4 or 5 that are several terabytes each. Usually forums on websites use Mysql databases to securely handle large amounts of data.

 

I once ran my own RPi server with the SD card acting as the hard drive, but people were complaining the pages took too long to load.


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 "God loved the world so much that He gave His uniquely-sired Son, with the result that anyone who believes in Him would never perish but have eternal life."


#3 Norseman143

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 04:54 PM

Oh

 

I always thought they had to sort of rent space or services from a company with a room full of servers

 

So BCs server would be like the server Hillary Clinton is in so much trouble for?



#4 Animal

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 07:00 PM

Bleeping Computer's database and forum software is on a server in a data center somewhere in the US. Backed up on a secondary server. Also Bleeping Computer is using Cloudflare technology.

Yes servers like Hillary Clinton and Karl Rove were involved with. Only those were mail servers ours is a website server. Content is different.

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#5 Norseman143

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 08:09 PM

I noticed BC went down for a short time the other night,thats what prompted me to get the nerve up to post this thread

 

Ok between the google search and your answers,I sort of understand

 

I read a lot about memory and data storage, but I didnt find anything that said how the datas stored on a server. Do they have something like a hard drive or is it like my PC where its a sollid state drive? Would the Client BC, have to pay  for how much data they have stored on the server>



#6 gigawert

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 08:51 PM

I noticed BC went down for a short time the other night

 

^^


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#7 Animal

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 10:21 PM

Unfortunately I cannot get into specifics of Bleeping Computer's setup. But costs are not only the server, but also the bandwidth connection to the server. Depending on the level of service the client wants. There are all sorts of additional costs that can be incurred. I am not at liberty to discuss Bleeping Computer specifics for obvious reasons. Only can speak in general industry terms.

The Internet is so big, so powerful and pointless that for some people it is a complete substitute for life.
Andrew Brown (1938-1994)


A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that." Douglas Adams (1952-2001)


"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination circles the world." Albert Einstein (1879-1955)


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#8 Anti_Malware

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 10:27 AM

No questions are ever stupid..


Whatever Your Mind Can Conceive And Believe, It Can Achieve - Napoleon Hill


#9 CodeSmasha

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 07:31 AM

Just for Privacy companies, isp's and businesses keep their information for themselves they do not release information to the public.



#10 Norseman143

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 06:41 PM

I was using BC as an example. I dont want to know any of the specifics.

 

If I started a Web page, where and how is the information stored? is it on some kind of hard drive? or is it stored on some kind of SSD?

 

I would google it but I dont know what to google

 

When you go on any web site, the information Graphics,forums ect, have to be stored somewhere.

 

Is it on a server? or is there a main frame computer that stores all the information? It would have to be easily accessible, so whatever kind of hardware that saves all the info going back and fourth would have to be fast

 

In a nutshell, How is information stored on the internet?



#11 gigawert

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 06:51 PM

I was using BC as an example. I dont want to know any of the specifics.

 

If I started a Web page, where and how is the information stored? is it on some kind of hard drive? or is it stored on some kind of SSD?

 

I would google it but I dont know what to google

 

When you go on any web site, the information Graphics,forums ect, have to be stored somewhere.

 

Is it on a server? or is there a main frame computer that stores all the information? It would have to be easily accessible, so whatever kind of hardware that saves all the info going back and fourth would have to be fast

 

In a nutshell, How is information stored on the internet?

To start a webpage and have people view it, you either need to have a dedicated device (like a Raspberry Pi) to host that website and show people it when they come visit your site. So yes, it is stored on a hard drive somewhere. The graphics usually are stored in that same folder, and then the html file references it. Passwords, on the other hand, are stored in encrypted databases, on those same hard drive(s).

 

To sum it up, the Internet as one big "server" is actually just a myth and a bit misleading. Each website usually has its own server (unless they share hosts). 


John 3:16

 "God loved the world so much that He gave His uniquely-sired Son, with the result that anyone who believes in Him would never perish but have eternal life."


#12 pistol22cal

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 09:42 PM

Honestly I would say all of BC's entire data is not more than 100GB - I could be wrong.


Edited by pistol22cal, 19 September 2015 - 09:43 PM.

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#13 brainout

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 10:17 PM

Norseman, let's start with analogies.  Look at a physical map.  You find roads and highways and they all connect to different parts.  For the world, the roads turn to waterways, and then of course you have air traffic.  Same, for radio waves. Frequencies which when set, 'connect' so you can hear some station maybe thousands of miles away, on a 'highway' of that frequency, to which your own radio is tuned.

 

So now, electronic 'highways' work the same way, analogously.  Instead of frequency, you have an 'IP address' which is your 'car' travelling to other destinations and meeting up with other 'IP' destinations.  Your destination is phrased as a 'web' address, where 'web' is that electronic 'map'.

 

So now it's a question of what powers your 'car': first, your local computer, which must be plugged into the 'highway' via some 'public transport', like Comcast or other 'IP provider'.  So, if you also maintain a website, it's an 'address' to which others can electronically travel, so it has to have a kind of  'port' to which they can all access and join, kinda like an office building or parking lot, stadium (whatever metaphor suits you).

 

In my case, the 'building' is called a domain (brainout.net, just as bleepingcomputer.com is a domain), and it's run by some 'host'.  I can't speak for bleepingcomputer, but I hire a webhoster to run all that connecting for the  building and all those who come to park around and in it.. godaddy.  So they are the manager of my domain, and beneath the domain are a bunch of  'websites' which are analogous to individual offices within the 'building' (which is the domain).

 

Is this making sense?  Off-topic?  Yell at me if I'm being obtuse and I'll try to do better!


Edited by brainout, 19 September 2015 - 10:17 PM.

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#14 pistol22cal

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 02:58 AM

Norseman, let's start with analogies.  Look at a physical map.  You find roads and highways and they all connect to different parts.  For the world, the roads turn to waterways, and then of course you have air traffic.  Same, for radio waves. Frequencies which when set, 'connect' so you can hear some station maybe thousands of miles away, on a 'highway' of that frequency, to which your own radio is tuned.

 

So now, electronic 'highways' work the same way, analogously.  Instead of frequency, you have an 'IP address' which is your 'car' travelling to other destinations and meeting up with other 'IP' destinations.  Your destination is phrased as a 'web' address, where 'web' is that electronic 'map'.

 

So now it's a question of what powers your 'car': first, your local computer, which must be plugged into the 'highway' via some 'public transport', like Comcast or other 'IP provider'.  So, if you also maintain a website, it's an 'address' to which others can electronically travel, so it has to have a kind of  'port' to which they can all access and join, kinda like an office building or parking lot, stadium (whatever metaphor suits you).

 

In my case, the 'building' is called a domain (brainout.net, just as bleepingcomputer.com is a domain), and it's run by some 'host'.  I can't speak for bleepingcomputer, but I hire a webhoster to run all that connecting for the  building and all those who come to park around and in it.. godaddy.  So they are the manager of my domain, and beneath the domain are a bunch of  'websites' which are analogous to individual offices within the 'building' (which is the domain).

 

Is this making sense?  Off-topic?  Yell at me if I'm being obtuse and I'll try to do better!

 

A Month in the hole am I being too obtuse ---- thats all I could think of when you said obtuse.


Edited by pistol22cal, 20 September 2015 - 02:59 AM.

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#15 millipede

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 09:00 PM

No questions are ever stupid..

oh, I do not agree with that one...  ha.  I've heard some interesting questions that would definitely qualify as less than intelligent...  come to think of it, I'm sure I've asked a few.

 

Norseman123, I'm no computer geek by ANY means...  but, I have some VERY basic understanding of this stuff... just some though.  I have a better understanding of how the info is stored than I do things like hubs and, well overall access...  if it's all out there, why can't I just get it free?  :/   HA....  I could start another topic on where my brain is going now but, I'll get back on topic...

 

As far as storing info for the world to access...  servers it is...  Those servers can mean different things.  My dad used to run a fairly active website(actually, he had 100's of pages) from an old pentium with a 500gb hdd I think...  Actually, now that I think about it...  I think he had 500mb of memory...  the hdd might have actually been smaller. 
it was a SLOW machine by today's standards but he made it work.  This was just a normal every day computer sitting in his living room. 
Most people don't do that...

Someone like you or I(actually, I have my own website) would pay to register a domain and then pay for hosting.  Basically some BIG company somewhere that has TONS(or less than tons) of servers sitting around storing lots of websites...  And my site would get some space there among others...  Many people starting out get shared hosting where their site will sit on a server with other websites...  bigger or more important websites will typically get their own servers in these locations...  And many choose to have their own servers in their own locations.  Unless you do things the way my dad did, servers are typically different than a normal computer... 
I can't go into BIG details as, again, I'm not tech geek... but, that's basically how the data is stored out there...  My website is hosted somewhere in the US... someone else has their site sitting on a server somewhere in greenland or france or germany or.......  they're all over.  It is interesting to think about it.

As far as ssd goes and all...  Just like my computer or a newer one, it depends...  Because it's faster and all, more servers are switching to SSD.  I imagine that trend will continue... but, not all are there now.

And if you want more interesting things to think about and go research or ask about...  Just today I was talking to my kids saying how interesting it was how data is transferred. 
Even something as simple at the over the air television that we watch.  A tv show broadcast 30 miles away(or more) is entering my home through an antenna...  from signals that were just floating around the air... 
Or, how looking at this page or watching a movie on youtube, if you're on a wireless connection... all that data is going from a router to your machine, through the air in your house or library or coffee shop or...    Think about that.  It's just odd.  I know there's all sorts of sciencey info explaining it all...  but, it's just odd to think about it.  That information is just floating all around you...  and satellites... 
oh the thinks we can think... 

Keep on wondering, searching, and asking.


random side note...  Back in the 90's when I first got on the internet... there were a LOT of free ISPs out there...  I tried several of them... usually had ads attached to their browsers but... FREE... 
Now, I'm paying $30 or more for what is slow by today's standard...  because I live outside of town we can only get 1.5mb download speed.  I still remember dialup so I don't complain but, in my opinion, the prices companies charge today for what you get just isn't right... of course, that's another topic.  :)






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