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[DISCUSSION] Why you downgraded from Windows 10


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#1 gigawert

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 11:53 AM

We now all know about why Windows 10 is free, and it has its issues. Discuss here if you downgraded or if you dropped Windows altogether, and why you did. I downgraded back to Windows 7 just today after upgrading on July 29th. Here are my reasons:

 

1. Microsoft is spying on us with Windows 10.  :scratchhead:

If you want to discuss this further, there is a highly popular topic on this here.

 

2. Wireless connectivity issues have been happening like crazy once I upgraded to Windows 10.

Not sure if other people had that problem too.

 

3. Windows 7 has some features that 10 doesn't.

I first noticed this when Windows 10 didn't come with an official DVD maker and couldn't properly write a video DVD with any software I chose either.

 

  :blink:


Edited by gigawert, 17 August 2015 - 03:55 PM.

John 3:16

 "God loved the world so much that He gave His uniquely-sired Son, with the result that anyone who believes in Him would never perish but have eternal life."


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#2 brainout

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 02:37 PM

Looks like Lenovo is thinking like you do, click here.  I was just talking to a client about that page.  Still not sure whether it's advertising Windows 7 as better than 10, so the former is installed not the latter, or whether the latter is installed and it's touting Win7 as better.

 

The Dell pages all show Windows 7 not 10, with an addendum, 'Windows 10 upgrade free'.  So they're not installing Win10.


(Away, Notifications Off) AUDIT PREMISES, my guidon.  -- brainout or brainouty on vimeo or Youtube, domain brainout.net


#3 gigawert

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 03:09 PM

My mom has a 6-month old Lenovo which I downgraded back to 8.1 for those same reason. It is a good thing those computers are not shipping with 10 because regular users would have no way of going to a "normal" version.


John 3:16

 "God loved the world so much that He gave His uniquely-sired Son, with the result that anyone who believes in Him would never perish but have eternal life."


#4 brainout

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 03:50 PM

Click on the Dell Link and then Operating System and then Help Me Choose.  Notice how  Dell will sell with Ubuntu.  This is news.  I've not seen that before.  You don't notice the option until you select the Help Me Choose.

 

Read what it says about the Win7 license, that it's really a Win8.1 license downgraded to let you later change to 8.1, with specific comments about how BIOS is changed to Legacy.  the 8.1 goes through 2023.  So now is the Win7 downgrade good through 2023?

 

For a new computer buyer all this will be very confusing, but for someone recommending machines, very helpful.  Wish Lenovo's site was that clear.


Edited by brainout, 17 August 2015 - 04:26 PM.

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#5 gigawert

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 03:54 PM

Do the Dell computers that ship with Ubuntu cost less than the ones with Windows? Dell is making a pretty good move by shipping some PCs with Ubuntu. How would you install bloatware on that? Anyway, we're kind of straying off topic now.


Edited by gigawert, 17 August 2015 - 03:55 PM.

John 3:16

 "God loved the world so much that He gave His uniquely-sired Son, with the result that anyone who believes in Him would never perish but have eternal life."


#6 leithanne

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 04:51 PM

Dell has been shipping with Ubuntu for years. It was news in 2009. http://www.cnet.com/news/dell-studio-xps-13-laptop-shipping-with-ubuntu/



#7 Kilroy

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 04:52 PM

Launch day I upgraded my media PC to Windows 10.  There were issues with the HDMI sound, I no longer had 5.1, I had stereo.  Updating the video card driver did not change the issue.  I downgraded back to Windows 8.1 and the sound issue continued.  I had to perform a Windows Reset to get it working properly.

 

My wife upgraded her Asus laptop.  The machine performance was massively degraded, but the final straw was the machine would not connect properly to wireless.  No updated driver from Asus.  Removing the card from device manager didn't fix the problem.  Connecting to a cable didn't work either.  Attempted to reset the TCP/IP stack and Winsock, no joy, back to Windows 8.1.  Performance was still an issue so she also performed a Windows Reset and is in the process of getting her machine back to where it was.



#8 gigawert

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 04:57 PM

Launch day I upgraded my media PC to Windows 10.  There were issues with the HDMI sound, I no longer had 5.1, I had stereo.  Updating the video card driver did not change the issue.  I downgraded back to Windows 8.1 and the sound issue continued.  I had to perform a Windows Reset to get it working properly.

 

My wife upgraded her Asus laptop.  The machine performance was massively degraded, but the final straw was the machine would not connect properly to wireless.  No updated driver from Asus.  Removing the card from device manager didn't fix the problem.  Connecting to a cable didn't work either.  Attempted to reset the TCP/IP stack and Winsock, no joy, back to Windows 8.1.  Performance was still an issue so she also performed a Windows Reset and is in the process of getting her machine back to where it was.

Same here, we could not connect to wireless on the laptop at all with Windows 10 either. The guy at ATT said to get an updated driver for my laptop's network card but there were no updated ones.


John 3:16

 "God loved the world so much that He gave His uniquely-sired Son, with the result that anyone who believes in Him would never perish but have eternal life."


#9 orlbuckeye

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 07:50 PM

No one is installing Windows 10 in machines that already have another OS installed in the factory. Why would they? Maybe to increase the price of the PC.


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#10 brainout

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 07:55 PM

IT is news that they are providing it for DESKTOPS, this is not the laptop xps speciality.  They weren't doing that before. You could special order, but it wasn't live on the site like it is now.  So if you insist on following me around to rebut facts I did not invent, then I will no longer reply to you.

Dell has been shipping with Ubuntu for years. It was news in 2009. http://www.cnet.com/news/dell-studio-xps-13-laptop-shipping-with-ubuntu/


(Away, Notifications Off) AUDIT PREMISES, my guidon.  -- brainout or brainouty on vimeo or Youtube, domain brainout.net


#11 leithanne

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 08:37 PM

http://www.pcworld.com/article/212014/how_to_buy_ubuntu_preloaded.html

 

"

6. Dell

211113-linux_laptop_180._119jpg_original

Though it has a somewhat mixed history with regard to Linux, it would be remiss not to mention Texas-based Dell, which has been offering Ubuntu preloaded on select machines since 2007. As of this writing, one minitower and one Inspiron laptop are listed on the company's U.S. site preinstalled with Ubuntu."



#12 Condobloke

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 08:47 PM

...and here i was thinking that only drew did that....silly me !

 

@ orlbuckeye.....(No one is installing Windows 10 in machines that already have another OS installed in the factory. Why would they?)

 

....I am thinking that the reason may well be that they don't want to run the risk of suffering the same problems that users/members here are encountering..!!

 

Imagine a shop full of pc's .....all having some of the well known and well documented dramas of updating to Win X ....all at the same time !!!!!     :scratchhead:    :crazy:    :axe:


Condobloke ...Outback Australian  fed up with Windows antics...??....LINUX IS THE ANSWER....I USE LINUX MINT 18.3  EXCLUSIVELY.

“A man travels the world in search of what he needs and returns home to find it."

It has been said that time heals all wounds. I don't agree. The wounds remain. Time - the mind, protecting its sanity - covers them with some scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone. Rose Kennedy

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#13 brainout

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 12:11 AM

Do the Dell computers that ship with Ubuntu cost less than the ones with Windows? Dell is making a pretty good move by shipping some PCs with Ubuntu. How would you install bloatware on that? Anyway, we're kind of straying off topic now.

 

Golly, I couldn't check the prices, giga, because you can't actually ELECT 'Ubuntu' from the drop down list.  It appears in the new format under choice of Operating System's dropdown, only AFTER you clicked on 'Help Me'. Else, it doesn't show, and you can't select it.  Because that's a new site design (and much worse than Dell's prior format), maybe there will later be an option to elect Ubuntu.

 

@Condobloke:  what's surprising to me is that the machines are being sold by Lenovo and Dell as 'downgrade rights' .  Hopefully those links will show that key phrase.  The Lenovo shows it if you select Windows 10 as the operating system, but then search results only show Win7 machines (this is what my client wanted, but we couldn't tell if Win10 was actually installed with the OPTION of going to Win7, or vice versa).  The Dell link is supposed to be for the 'Help Me Choose' option of OS, and if you look at Win7 (which is supposed to be the link), it seems to say that really the license is 8.1 but 7 is installed using the downgrade-rights clause.  HP is using the phrase too, but someone drunk designed that website, seriously confusing (and I gave them that feedback).  They all seem to be offering Windows 7 with the presumption that the user won't want 10 or 8.1.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, please...

 

This is the final step in my due diligence, to see if manufacturers realize that Win10 is a problem.  Since you do other folks' installs (right?) are you finding it an issue, downgrading?


Edited by brainout, 18 August 2015 - 12:50 AM.

(Away, Notifications Off) AUDIT PREMISES, my guidon.  -- brainout or brainouty on vimeo or Youtube, domain brainout.net


#14 Condobloke

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 04:58 AM

Downgrade rights are quite interesting. ....mainly because those rights are enshrined in msft's eula.

Can I downgrade the software? Instead of using the Windows 8.1 Pro software, you may use one of the following earlier versions: Windows 7 Professional or Windows Vista Business.

 

So....one has to ask the obvious question.....why do msft include that.?   Simple. They need to.

it is not done out of some glorious feeling of 'oh we will just be nice and give all the wonderful people out there a choice'. BS. msft does not have a 'nice' bone in their corporate body.

 

Win 8 has all sorts of dramas...well documented

Win 8.1 still has dramas...not as many....but it has them.   Not well liked on a total sold/updated against those who love it basis

 

Win 7...as our own Union_Thug would say   "They can take my Window 7 when they pry it from my cold, dead hard drive"

 

Better to keep the masses happy....allow the user to roll back to Win 7. All it takes is a change in the bios...and away you go. Msft will pray that win 10 is their salvation....that it works like a dream, runs as smooth as silk.....everyone's dream!!

Win7 runs out of life completely in 2020. Mainstream support has already ended.(january 2015)  ....2020 is not that far away......A LOT has to be achieved by msft in that time...a gargantuan amount !

 

To some extent they are right. Despite the protestations from drew & co in another topic, that they keep trying to tell people "how bad Windows 10 is"......not so.....read the 'fine print' (just like the msft privacy statement).....what 'we' are saying is that the privacy approach Stinks.....just like yesterdays socks. The actual system certainly has its problems and wrinkles to iron out...some people have had a dream run with its installation/upgrade.....and some people have had a torrid introduction to it....and have quickly jumped ship and gone back to 7 or 8.1.....but hopefully those 'wrinkles' will be ironed out.....again...hopefully sooner than later.

At the moment it is the inconsistency associated with Win 10 that causes the most frustration....or as NickAu most succinctly put it Windows 10, a bunch of security and privacy issues wrapped in a buggy GUI

 

If msft were to reappraise their approach to the shoddy grab at peoples info etc....they would be on an absolute winner.


Edited by Condobloke, 18 August 2015 - 05:05 AM.

Condobloke ...Outback Australian  fed up with Windows antics...??....LINUX IS THE ANSWER....I USE LINUX MINT 18.3  EXCLUSIVELY.

“A man travels the world in search of what he needs and returns home to find it."

It has been said that time heals all wounds. I don't agree. The wounds remain. Time - the mind, protecting its sanity - covers them with some scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone. Rose Kennedy

 GcnI1aH.jpg

 

 


#15 brainout

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 05:41 AM

Yeah, Condobloke, downgrading to protect one's ability to continue with what works! 

 

Enfin, there are four things MSFT must do to make the good on the potential of the innards and reduce/eliminate the disaster of the outers:

 

  1. Eliminate the abysmal Paragraphs 2, 3 and 7 in the Services Agreement, and the 'Reasons We Share Personal Data' in the Privacy Statement, and instead SUBJECT issues to duly constituted legal authority.  I don't have a right to just go nab your stuff because you really or seemingly stole mine.  I don't have a right to just whack you because I think you did something wrong.  No, I have to go through the authorities of the polity in which you and/or I live.  That's international law.  :apple:
  2. Eliminate mandatory updates.   The record of this OS is just too buggy, and we've all learned to accept that.  So don't break down the entire world's productivity by shackling it to updates.  Granted, the consumer/small-business market is a small percentage of MSFT's revenues -- but all those people for the most part, work for MSFT's big business customers.  So how long will big business, which can easily afford to move to Linux -- how long will it tolerate the mistreatment of its employees by MSFT?  Door swings both ways.  Big companies care about their employees even more than small ones can afford to do. So this is a PR disaster of the worst magnitude, outdone only by #1, above.  :apple:
  3. Offer a 'wardrobe' of  GUIs people find familiar, which they can select from, never imposed. Can't be too hard to dig in the vault and pull out the GUI style for XP, Vista, Win7, 8.. let folks choose, AND THEN LEAVE THE INTERFACE ALONE.  Only improve the innards.  This is supposed to be the last Windows, right?  Then make it last.  We won't sign onto an interface which is alien, MSFT should learn from the Win8 fiasco.  Costs millions of dollars to retrain employees.  Quit spitting in the face of your customers with your unconscionable ribbons and Fisher-Price nonsense. :apple:
  4. Allow everyone to opt out of all that back door stuff.  If MSFT needs to charge to make up for lost revenue, then charge. Many of us are willing to pay for ad-free and privacy-protecting operation.  Surely per machine, MSFT makes very little, from datamining;  so then we can pay what they'd otherwise make.  Alternatively, many won't mind getting 'free' in exchange for MSFT making money off datamining -- so long as the PRIVATE stuff gets to stay PRIVATE.  Right?  For Google isn't reaching into your hard drive and storing up your material for any policing purpose.  So, MSFT shouldn't either.

Did I miss something?  I should just stop typing though, the deafness of 12 years ain't goin' away tomorrow.  :scratchhead: :deadhorse:


Edited by brainout, 18 August 2015 - 05:58 AM.

(Away, Notifications Off) AUDIT PREMISES, my guidon.  -- brainout or brainouty on vimeo or Youtube, domain brainout.net





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