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Microsoft's third Windows 10 cumulative update said to fix Store issues


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#1 JohnC_21

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Posted 15 August 2015 - 08:39 AM

Microsoft officials say the latest Windows 10 cumulative update fixes problems some users were having with Windows Store. What else is in it? We have no idea.

 

The newest cumulative update is KB3081438. The Microsoft Support page says nothing about the specific features and fixes that are new to this update beyond "This update includes improvements to enhance the functionality of Windows 10."

 

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#2 rp88

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Posted 15 August 2015 - 10:00 AM

"This update includes improvements to enhance the functionality"


Any update with a vague description like that should be considered suspicious. If I were offered an update worded like that for my windows 8.1 machine I would definitely refuse it, if they won't say what it is for it is either not important or not pleasant. Remember that this is the sort of language which was the wording used for the KB page of kb3035583 when it was first released (it's page has been updated since to give a more accurate description of what it does, but when that update first came out it's page was all vague like that).

Edited by rp88, 15 August 2015 - 10:00 AM.

Back on this site, for a while anyway, been so busy the last year.

My systems:2 laptops, intel i3 processors, windows 8.1 installed on the hard-drive and linux mint 17.3 MATE installed to USB

#3 JohnC_21

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Posted 15 August 2015 - 10:20 AM

I am afraid this will be how Microsoft will describe all future updates. As the author said....

 

Microsoft officials say the latest Windows 10 cumulative update fixes problems some users were having with Windows Store. What else is in it? We have no idea.

 



#4 brainout

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 12:23 PM

Here's Woody Leonhard's follow up article on the same topic, reporting yet more bugs and revival of old bugs.  Frankly, I've just taken my Win10 machine off the grid.  Not willing to mess with this nonsense anymore.  Maybe after October will plug it in again.


Edited by brainout, 17 August 2015 - 12:27 PM.

(Away, Notifications Off) AUDIT PREMISES, my guidon.  -- brainout or brainouty on vimeo or Youtube, domain brainout.net


#5 brainout

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 06:18 PM

Latest furor over the updates, click here.  This time, the pro-MSFT pundits are complaining.


(Away, Notifications Off) AUDIT PREMISES, my guidon.  -- brainout or brainouty on vimeo or Youtube, domain brainout.net


#6 JohnC_21

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 06:22 PM

I had a feeling this was going to happen with rapid updates. Microsoft should call them Machine Gun Updates. 

 

Edit: Love some of the comments over at The Register.


Edited by JohnC_21, 18 August 2015 - 06:57 PM.


#7 brainout

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 03:01 AM

John  :grinner:

 

Comment in that article (bolding added): 

There's still good money to be made rolling back accidental Windows 10 updates and then nobbling GWX via uninstalling KBs or changing registry entries. And it's work that will last throughout the year as GWX gets more and more insistent. On day 364 I imagine a scheduled task will just start the computer up and install it anyway.

 

 

Aha, but this article on weird EULA clauses is even better:   click here.

 

Of course, none of those ridiculous clauses are as bad as Win10's Paragraph 3 of the Services Agreement (incorporated into EULA Paragraph 1bi and 14), though the Apple prohibition against using iTunes to make missles comes close.  Only MSFT has arrogated to itself the right to actually adjudicate and police your behavior.

 

Like one of the commenters in the quoted article said, 'I'm out.'  Time to go back to work and let the sandboxers in Redmond keep bullying.  They've wasted enough of my time.  Will pull out of Insiders, I'm tired of their lying.


Edited by brainout, 19 August 2015 - 03:10 AM.

(Away, Notifications Off) AUDIT PREMISES, my guidon.  -- brainout or brainouty on vimeo or Youtube, domain brainout.net


#8 rp88

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 12:04 PM

So, how are we going to make sure that such a scheduled task can NEVER run?
Back on this site, for a while anyway, been so busy the last year.

My systems:2 laptops, intel i3 processors, windows 8.1 installed on the hard-drive and linux mint 17.3 MATE installed to USB

#9 brainout

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 02:33 PM

I dunno, rp88.  I just told my clients to stop Windows update.  They don't even know it exists.  So I'm sure their updates are on automatic, and I told them to call me and I'll walk them through it.

 

To instead explain how to turn off the specific KBs will be a nightmare.  These people are really smart (physicians, lawyers, business owners with a fair number of employees) -- but computers are not their 'thing'.  They run their own computers and networks, so maybe they won't be as dumbfounded as I expect.  Hope they have specific employees or family members I can talk with, instead.


Edited by brainout, 19 August 2015 - 02:34 PM.

(Away, Notifications Off) AUDIT PREMISES, my guidon.  -- brainout or brainouty on vimeo or Youtube, domain brainout.net


#10 rp88

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 01:00 PM

brainout post#9, turning it off entirely isn't a good idea, because for all the bad updates which are served there are also some really important ones (those which patch security holes in various parts of windows when vulnerabilities are discovered).

I strongly suggest you try to get your clients to learn to make a weekly visit to "windows update" in "control panel" and tick everything calling itself "Security update for ..." whilst perhaps not ticking anything else. There has never in my experience been any security update which had nasty side-effects and there hasn't in my experience even been a buggy one, so for user's without time or for those for whom " computers are not their 'thing' " then the advice of:

Every wednesday(updates are released on tuesday evening, so doing it late then is better, but wednesday morning guarantees all updates are out by that time) go to "Windows Update" under "Control Panel".

Click the "Check for updates" button/link on the left hand side

When it has finished checking click the small "X important updates are available" link/button

Untick all of them

Now go and tick only those with names starting "Security Update for..."

Click install and let the computer do it's thing, restart when it asks you.

Repeat the next wednesday.



Might be the best advice. Ideally a user would check the details of all updates, install the security ones immediately and then look at the info about the rest to see if any are worth having, but for users unable to do this it's better to follow the steps above. Infact the truth is it's probably better for a user to get all the "important" updates rather than no updates AT ALL, but due to things like KB3035583 this will cause problems. The thing is that there is no option to do security updates automatically and none of the rest, the only choices are:

Checking automatically,picking and choosing from a list those to download and install(best option)

Everything downloaded automatically but user approval required before installation (not much different from full auto really)

Everything installed automatically (in an ideal world this would be fine, but thanks to things like KB3035583 users doing this run into problems)

Automatic installation of "important updates" but not of "optional" ones (doesn't help users avoid KB3035583 but helps avoid some un-necessary updates)

No updates at all (bad idea).

Edited by rp88, 20 August 2015 - 01:00 PM.

Back on this site, for a while anyway, been so busy the last year.

My systems:2 laptops, intel i3 processors, windows 8.1 installed on the hard-drive and linux mint 17.3 MATE installed to USB

#11 brainout

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 08:33 PM

Beloved rp88, the problem is these people don't even understand how to drag a mouse.  It's not that they are stupid people, it's that they are totally annoyed with computers, period.  So if I can't give them a black/white solution, then I may as well give them nothing.  For some, I can say "if it doesn't say 'security update', don't install it".  The KB listing Union_Thug gave me will be a lot for some of them to even want to read.

 

So to turn off the updates altogether, makes it MANUAL, not cessation.  Then MANUALLY searching for updates when the person wants, gets him used to selecting and reading, at which point the KB blacklist will be easier to cope with.

 

Am I making sense?  If not, lambast me.  And if you can think of a simpler way to handle it without that horrid GWX, let me know.


(Away, Notifications Off) AUDIT PREMISES, my guidon.  -- brainout or brainouty on vimeo or Youtube, domain brainout.net


#12 rp88

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Posted 22 August 2015 - 09:59 AM

"So to turn off the updates altogether, makes it MANUAL"

I would consider "manual" updates to mean the "check automatically but ask me whether I want to download and install" setting. This is what I use. A visit to "control panel"-->"windows update" late each tuesday night or early each wednesday morning lets me see what is available, I also visit "windows update" whenever I see the yellow text in the bottom right corner of the screen just before I log in.

If a user knows to (on a weekly schedule and whenever they see that yellow text) go to "windows update" in "control panel"(don't go to "pc settings" I don't think you get the full list or options there), thick those saying "Security Update for ...", ignore the rest, and ensure never to install any of the updates on a certain blacklist they should be fine. I cannot think of a simpler way than this, because if you turn updates any further "off" than "check automatically but ask me whether I want to download and install" then the checking might be a bit trickier.

You are making sense, I think. If you are proposing what I describe in my second paragraph (If a user knows to...) of this post then it makes perfect sense, if you are proposing turning updates off entirely and encouraging the user to run a manual check every tuesday/wednesday (instead of letting checking be automatic) I think this might be a little more effort for them, but in principle it makes sense. As long as the download and installation is manual (checking can be automatic or it could be done manually on a weekly basis also I suppose, but this would be more effort) then enforcing a blacklist and a principle of "only the security ones, forget the rest" is fairly simple.

The only other way your post could be interpreted is if you are sayging you want to put updates so they only check when commanded to, and you intend to regularly contact certain clients and tell them "check your updates today, tick those saying security, untick the rest", this would be a lot of effort for you, and it's key problem is that your clients might be quite a while behind on their security updates (where with automatic checking and a weekly schedule to look in "windows update" on wednesday morning they would only be a day or so behind).

In an ideal world a user would check the descriptions for each of "the rest" and evaluate their necessity or lack of necessity individually for each update, but for "not computer people" just going by whether the update says "Security..." at the start of it's name is ok.


You say " For some, I can say "if it doesn't say 'security update', don't install it" " that is the best you can do, it combines ensuring they get security updates with ensuring they don't get nasty updates and ensuring they get security updates regularly. For users who cannot manage this I would be unsure how to suggest you advise them, perhaps show them through this step by step, write it down on paper (maybe even with screenshots if necessary) and hang it off the side of their screen. You could, yourself, put a scheduled task on their computer which would, first thing every wednesday morning, give them a little pop-up message saying "time to deal with updates, see how on the page hanging from the side of your screen".

P.S. I hope your users have their browser/plugins/antivirus all set to update fully automatically, these days we can't trust windows updates to take care of themselves but programs should be left to do their thing as they choose, they can all run automatically without problems.

Edited by rp88, 22 August 2015 - 10:06 AM.

Back on this site, for a while anyway, been so busy the last year.

My systems:2 laptops, intel i3 processors, windows 8.1 installed on the hard-drive and linux mint 17.3 MATE installed to USB




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