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Change O/S on new pc with W10 installed


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#1 rozzer

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 09:21 AM

Hi

 

Can anyone tell me if you buy a new pc with W10 installed (which I'm sure will be the case shortly) will you be able to remove W10 and install Linux or will it be locked preventing you from doing that and if so does that mean I will have to have a custom made pc to use Linux or is there another alternative.

 

Regards

Rozzer



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#2 Rocky Bennett

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 10:02 AM

That is a good question. Hopefully Drew or brainout will have the answer for you, because I am curious about this.


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#3 brainout

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 11:45 AM

John, what brand name of computer do you have or are thinking of buying? The procedure varies with the brand.  But it's simple to bypass the lock.

 

Here's a sample procedure, so you can see what I mean.  Pretend your computer is a Dell.  ANY Dell.

 

1.  Start with machine off.  You press the poweron button and immediately start hitting F12.  Do it every other second (not too fast) until you see in the upper right corner, 'One-Time Boot Menu';  should be in yellow, but might be white.

 

2. You're next presented with boot options.  Select 'BIOS Setup' with cursor keys (or mouse, maybe).

 

3.  Now you're in the Bios Setup menu.  Slowly scroll down and look for something like  'Boot sequence'.  This term means, 'Hi, I want you to look in x place FIRST SECOND THIRD for the boot instructions'.  So, you want the CD and/or USB port to be first and second (or floppy, if you use floppy), hard disk after that.  Thus you can always boot with any other device before your hard drive.  Handy, if you want to test drive different flavors of Linux, prior to install.

 

Adds maybe 30 seconds to your boot time, but so what?  This means your computer first looks to your CD and/or USB or floppy, before looking on your hard drive, for the 'boot' instructions.

 

4.  Still in the 'Boot sequence', look just below the ranking of what-boots-first, and you'll find two labels:  'Legacy', or 'UEFI'.  You want 'Legacy'.  (It's 'UEFI' which Windows 8+ uses to prevent another OS from being installed.  I oversimplify, but that is what you need to turn off.)  So make sure 'Legacy' is selected.

 

5.  Now this is the tricky part:  in Dell, you scroll almost all the way down to 'POST Behavior' (meaning, how your machine checks itself at boot):  look for 'Fastboot'.  You'll have three options for its setting, Minimal, Thorough, and Auto.  Pick 'Thorough'.  Technically means, machine does longer diagnostics of its drive, memory, monitor, etc. In reality it stops Windows from interfering with the somewhat longer boot process of Linux, so Linux can control the boot process.  For Linux, displays information (usually, from what I've seen); maybe you want to read it.  Minimal and Auto are a lot faster, but maybe only use those after you're sure your dual setup is stable.

 

Problem is, each brand has its own names for these things, though the terms should be similar.  Also, some brands use different start keys.  For Dell, it's F12,  the most key among brands;  Acer is sometimes Alt-F10 or F10, some are F2, etc.  I forget what HP is.

 

One more small thing: partition and format your drives before installing Win10, so it won't force you to have GPT formatting. Use NTFS, partition 160 GB or so (it's a real swap hog, makes huge files for its many updates).  It will subdivide the partition you give it into a 450MB for the mbr and the balance for its operation.  Either leave the Linux portion remaining, as unallocated or format also as NTFS, for now.  The Linux installer will guide you into reformatting what remains (every distro has its own idiosyncracies in that regard).  It will create the grub loader, too.

 

I did all the above steps (except for installing Linux) plus the paritioning before installing Win8.0, then upgraded to 8.1 via update, then installed Win10 in its own pre-created partition. Both were NTFS, not GPT.  The Windows installers will create GPT if you let them; but they don't play well with Linux partitions.  Windows will not be able to read Linux partitions, either. So always install Linux last.  So far as I know, all the Linux folks here would agree with that, but ask them.  I only report what actually happens to me (or I've read/heard), can't speak for all experiences.

 

TMI?  Lemme know!


Edited by brainout, 17 July 2015 - 12:25 PM.

(Away, Notifications Off) AUDIT PREMISES, my guidon.  -- brainout or brainouty on vimeo or Youtube, domain brainout.net


#4 O.T.T.

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 03:27 PM

Maybe future "BIOS setups" will not have the options brainout gives ?

If you're sure about Linux why all the hassle ?

 

Buy a Linux PC or have it custom made, this way you are sure everything is going to work correct (hardware support).

 

Just an example, there are plenty more : UbuntuPre-installed (supports Ubuntu-Mint-Debian)

 

OTT


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#5 Drew1903

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 06:03 PM

Maybe future "BIOS setups" will not have the options brainout gives ?

If you're sure about Linux why all the hassle ?

 

Buy a Linux PC or have it custom made, this way you are sure everything is going to work correct (hardware support).

 

Just an example, there are plenty more : UbuntuPre-installed (supports Ubuntu-Mint-Debian)

 

OTT

This is the same sensible advice I was going to give you.  Uses the KISS principle.  Said advice is almost commenting on the obvious.



#6 rozzer

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 02:54 AM

I am asking this question for a number of reasons.

1) I may want to buy a pc with W10 on to try it out first, maybe i like it and will keep it

    or maybe i don't and want to change it, I already have an old pc which I have  installed

    Linux Mint 17.1 and I like it but would like to re-install XP on it at a later stage for non-internet

    use and have a new pc to re-install Linux if necessary (not interested in dual boot at this stage)

    and I have a pc with W8.1 on which I also like (not as much as XP) and at this stage do not want

    to change from W8.1 but that doesn't mean I won't like or want W10: I don't want to throw good

    money away, hence my question??

2) I have not seen any pc's in store with Linux installed as standard, all I've seen is Windows

3) I do not want to pay good money for a pc which I have no control off.

4) I am not a computer boffin so am limited in what I can and cannot do and while i thank you for

    instructions and advice, I can not rely on that when buying a new pc.

 

Thanks to you all

 

Regards Rozzer



#7 Drew1903

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 04:00 AM

'Roz,

 

Changing it to any other Windows OS would not make any long-term (or present) sense.  Not to say couldn't format it & put something else in its place, I guess.  Maybe, I'm the wrong one to answer since I think well of Windows 10.

I think it excellent bang for the buck, certainly if free but, even bought, still, not over priced for what (all) it is, good value. and for a long time ahead.

Have you, actually, used Win10 for any length of time?
 


Edited by Drew1903, 18 July 2015 - 05:23 AM.


#8 Rocky Bennett

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 04:38 AM

After July 29th, you can still join the Windows 10 preview club and test it out. With the kind of concerns that you are expressing, you should have joined the Windows 10 preview club months ago. It is too late now to join, but Microsoft claims that it will re-open for new membership sometime later this year.


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#9 rozzer

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 10:11 AM

I do not want to change it to another Windows O/S I already have W8.1 and if I need to go that route

I will upgrade my existing pc if necessary, but I'm pretty sure I will have to anyway in the future.

The preview club is a reasonable suggestion should i wish to try it out, however I really want to have

ownership of MY new pc and install an O/S of My choice should I wish too, that is why I asked if anyone knows if

new pc's with W10 installed will be locked by MS & thus preventing this freedom of choice as I want to install

XP on my old pc and possibly install Linux on the new pc if I want too.

Hope that is a better explanation

 

Thanks all

 

Rozzer



#10 brainout

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 05:34 PM

Rozzer -- sorry I called you John earlier, I was looking at the wrong post -- I'm an XP fanatic, so I understand what you're saying.  Here's a better option which gets you all of what you want:

 

1.  Install XP on your old machine, just as you planned.  Make sure your BIOS settings are on ATA, thorough boot, with boot sequence first to CD or USB, and hard drive 'called' last.  This matters for installing Linux, and to prevent Win10 from locking your machine later.

 

2.  Windows 8, if you update it to 8.1, makes you eligible for Free Win10, so you don't have to become an Insider.  You should see a reminder that you can get Win10 in your system tray, sometime next month.  Meanwhile...

 

3. Maybe partition your old computer's drive after installing XP, to leave a good 100GB for Win10 as a second partition.  For you do not have to install Win10 on the same machine, as Win8. Later you can install Win10.  Or, make that second partition on your Win8 machine.  That's what I did on my Win8 machine, and Win10 is on it.  They play nicely with each other.  (But I did step #5 below, prior to installing 8.)

 

=========>  DO NOT install Win10 on top of Win8.1.  Free Win10 updates will cease earlier than Win8.1 updates.  Since you have to update to Win8.1 by January anyhow, do it .. then you'll be good until 2023.  The Win10's updates, are mandatory but also they end when your machine's warranty ends (which may have already happened), see this thread.

 

4. Pick your favorite flavor of Linux, but instead of installing it to your internal hard drive, install it to some external hard drive, like a WD Passport or whatever you prefer.  Linux will install the same way to external as to internal.  So no worry about dual boot, vm, Win10.

 

5.  UNLOCK your Windows 8 PC, by changing its UEFI setting to 'Legacy'.  When you install Win10 to the other partition, it won't override that setting.

 

So you can just plug the external Linux drive into EITHER machine and boot from it (i.e., your XP or Win8 machine).  That's what I do.  I made five external-drive Linuxes (Mint 13, 17, Fedora 17, 22, and PCLinux OS).  So now, I can plug them into any of my seven XP machines.  Linux protects the XP machines, if I surf using it.  I can still access my XP programs and files, so it's convenient.  No need to mess with virtual machines, dual booting, wubi, etc.

 

Does that sound like what you were looking for?


Edited by brainout, 18 July 2015 - 05:49 PM.

(Away, Notifications Off) AUDIT PREMISES, my guidon.  -- brainout or brainouty on vimeo or Youtube, domain brainout.net


#11 rozzer

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 03:55 AM

Hi

 

Brainout Brilliant.....just brilliant, thanks a million everything I wanted in a nutshell :flowers: , I,m sure it will help others too.

 

No probs about the name mix up (you wanna hear what my wife calls me) :lol:

 

Thanks to all

 

Regards Rozzer



#12 brainout

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 10:28 AM

LOL, Rozzer!  Glad to be of help!


(Away, Notifications Off) AUDIT PREMISES, my guidon.  -- brainout or brainouty on vimeo or Youtube, domain brainout.net





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