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Crash During User Sign In (Windows 8)


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#1 Lxno78

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 04:27 PM

[attachment=167363:SysnativeFileCollectionApp.zip][attachment=167362:PerfmonLxno78.zip][attachment=167361:Admin.zip]

 

My computer is brand new, about two months old, and I haven't used it too much yet. Today, while signing in to my Windows account, the computer crashed. It was rather odd too.

 

I typed in my password and the "loading circle" appeared. The loading circle then froze in place followed by the monitor going blank and then saying it wasn't getting any signal. The computer was still running and the monitor connections were fine, but the screen was still blank. I couldn't even shut the computer off by holding down the power button. I must have held it down for at least 15 seconds, way longer than usual to force a shutdown. The computer reset button was unresponsive as well. I tried both buttons multiple times but they did nothing. I had to resort to manually shutting off the power supply unit (which I really did not want to do).

 

What happened?

 

System Specs:

Motherboard: msi, 760GMA-P34 (FX) series [MS-7641 (v5.1)]

CPU: AMD FX-6300 Vishera 6-Core 3.5GHz

RAM: 8GB Klevv Neo

PSU: Sea Sonic S12II-520Bronze Power supply - 520 Watt

GPU: Zotac GeForce GTX 750 1 GB GDDR5

Case: logisys 368RB

Operating System: Windows 8.1

 

None of my components (CPU nor GPU) are overclocked.

 

Background Info:

If you're wondering what the events were up to this point I basically had an issue with a Broke.OpenCommand you can see the thread here. I followed all the steps in that thread, but had not completed the last clean-up step. Basically I ran the programs SecurityCheck.exe, Farbar Service Scanner , AdwCleaner, and Junkware Removal Tool. I'm glad those utilities are there to help, but I worry about the automation of them to, sometimes no user prompts before the cleaning process (which means valid registry keys and programs can accidentally be removed or changed).  I ended up doing a System Restore from before a critical update from July 10th because my extra worry.

 

I'm wondering if the System Restore "undid" and update causing the system to be unstable or if one of the programs I was asked to run made a display driver or other driver broken/unstable. (Or perhaps a combination of both the programs being run and the system restore.) Although, the way my power button stopped working makes me wonder if this was an electrical surge. 

 

I've had so many problems with my computer and it's new. It's distressing.


Edited by Lxno78, 15 July 2015 - 07:37 AM.


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#2 Lxno78

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 09:33 PM

The problem may be worse than I thought.

 

It just happened to me again. This time, I had booted up the computer and it was just sitting at the user log in screen and then the screen went black, but the machine stayed on. I tested the monitor by removing the connection from the GPU and plugging it in to the connection that connects to the motherboard. Nothing. Power button ceases to work and I have to shut the computer off by shutting down the power supply. (And I have tested this, I can shut the computer down by holding down the power button, when the computer actually boots correctly).

 

My problem is very similar to this persons here although I am not overclocking. Also, once my computer gets past the log on screen it seems to be fine.

 

I'm starting to think this is a hardware issue or maybe I am drawing too much power on the PSU (although I should only be using about 50% at most of the max 520W  rating).

 

I'm getting very worried.


Edited by Lxno78, 14 July 2015 - 11:04 PM.


#3 usasma

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Posted 15 July 2015 - 06:25 AM

Let's have a look at these 2 sets of reports:

1)  Please provide this information (even though you're not having BSOD's) so we can provide a complete analysis (from the Pinned Topic at the top of the forum):  http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/576314/blue-screen-of-death-bsod-posting-instructions-windows-10-81-8-7-vista/

2)  Please do the following:
- open Event Viewer (run eventvwr.msc from the "Run" dialog)
- expand the Custom Views category (left click on the > next to the words "Custom Views")
- right click on Administrative Events
- select "Save all Events in Custom View as..."
- save the file as Admin.evtx
- zip up the file (right click on it, select "Send to", select "Compressed (zipped) folder")
- upload it with your next post (if it's too big, then upload it to a free file-hosting service and post a link here).

FYI - If we're looking for Event ID 41 errors (unexplained shutdowns), there's more info on that here:  http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2028504

While waiting for a reply, please monitor your temps with this free utility:  http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

 


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- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#4 Lxno78

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Posted 15 July 2015 - 07:38 AM

Thank you, the files should be attached to the very top of my original post of this thread. (It took me a while to figure out how to post an attachment, I had to click "more reply options". I searched the reply editor, but didn't see that lol, so I ended up attaching the files to the original post.)


Edited by Lxno78, 15 July 2015 - 07:43 AM.


#5 usasma

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Posted 15 July 2015 - 02:27 PM

I'm seeing a lot of problems with the hard disk in both the Admin logfile and the perfmon report (I haven't even looked at the Sysnative reports yet).

As such I'd start with these free hardware diagnostics:  http://www.carrona.org/hwdiag.html

Start with the hard drive tests (Seagate Seatools for the hard drive, and the CrystalDiskInfo for the SSD), then try to find an independent malware scanner (as your attempt to install ESET had failed).

 

There are no memory dumps in the uploaded reports.

The KernelDumpList report doesn't show any dump files in the usual locations.

The WER section of MSINFO32 doesn't show any BSOD's.

Don't worry about this, it's just documentation that this isn't a kernel dump problem (one less thing to look at).

 

Your UEFI/BIOS (version V25.0) dates from 2013.  Please check at the manufacturer's website to see if there are any UEFI/BIOS updates available for your system.  If you are able to install the update through Windows (without booting from an external drive), then go ahead and update it.  WARNING - if the computer might shut down during this procedure, please don't do it, as this may physically damage the computer and prevent it from booting.

Beyond this, I don't have much of a clue as to what's happening here.

Run the diagnostics as I suggested and let us know the results.

Be sure to run the tests on both the hard drive and the SSD.


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#6 Lxno78

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Posted 15 July 2015 - 03:09 PM

I'm seeing a lot of problems with the hard disk in both the Admin logfile and the perfmon

 

 
I will definitely run the diagnostics, but I have a question about the hard drives. Are those problems recent, like within the last 5 days or so? Or, are they going further back?
I've had to manually shut the PSU off  nearly 5 or more times the last few days due to the PC crashing but staying on and the power button failing to respond. Maybe that caused it?
 
...your attempt to install ESET had failed).

 

 
I'm mostly confident that was me personally cancelling the installation because the website claims "one-time-free" use, didn't want to waste it. However, if log is showing it failed otherwise, then I don't know.
 
I have scanned with Malwarebytes, Avast, and ADWCleaner just yesterday. Those came up clean and all programs and definitions were up-to-date.
 
 
Your UEFI/BIOS (version V25.0) dates from 2013.

 

 
I've read that updating BIOs can be dangerous. I'm a bit nervous about it, but considering my issues it looks like I should. What risk am I at if it I update? What if I crash during update?
 
Beyond this, I don't have much of a clue as to what's happening here.

 

 
I found a few forum posts from around the web (listed below), they had very similar problems. Is it possible my motherboard is grounding to the case? Or some other hardware problem like faulty/damaged RAM, damaged motherboard, or faulty/damaged/under powered PSU?
 
Again, thanks!
 


#7 usasma

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Posted 15 July 2015 - 04:30 PM

Quite frankly, I look for the most current errors in the Admin log (and don't often go back 5 days)

In the WER section of MSINFO32, I look at all the errors, but in less detail than in the Admin log file.

 

While the forced shutdown with the PSU could cause these problems, I'd expect that you'd have to do it a lot more times than I saw in order to cause a real problem with the hard drive.

I've reviewed a lot of these logs over the years and the pattern of NTFS/hard drive errors is pretty obvious if you're looking for it.

That being said, I've been wrong before.  But the hard drive diagnostics will help to rule out a bad hard drive.  If that's the case, then we have to look for other reasons why the file system on the hard drive is repeatedly getting errors.

 

ESET will say "fail" if you cancel it.  Don't worry about it then, but I still question why you were installing it?

The point being that you're familiar with your system and thought that something was wrong enough to install ESET.

What was the cause, and why did it bring antivirus to mind?  Did you scan with something else?

 

More system problems are solved by the owner of the system than by all of the suggestions that I make.  I just provide suggestions that help point the owner in a (hopefully) more helpful direction.

 

Yes, BIOS updating can be dangerous.  There are 2 things that can cause it to mess up:

- the user making mistakes

- power outages/system shutdowns

I did not find a problem with your BIOS/UEFI.  What I found was that it was dated from 2013.

While earlier OS's (Vista and Win7) didn't interface with the BIOS very much - Win8/8.1/and 10 are well integrated with the BIOS.

At work we're finding many more problems due to outdated BIOS/UEFI than we used to find with Vista and Win7.

As such it's my suggestion to update, but if you're uncertain about it then I suggest that you leave it until last.

 

I've only seen a handful of BIOS/UEFI flashes fail over the years, and only 1 or 2 have resulted in damage that might be irreparable (one is still being worked on AFAIK).

 

Here's the circumstances that you're facing (as I understand it)

You attempt to login,

the circle thing runs for a bit,

then the system gives you the no signal error.

 

If this is correct, then here's what's happening (IMO):

- the system isn't able to login

- it runs the circle thingy while it tries.

- as it can't finish what it's doing, it shuts down

- this causes the video signal to stop.

The point here is that the video card is working good up until that point that it gives no signal - so I figure that it's not a physical problem with the video card.

There's 3 things that can be causing problems:

- 3rd party programs (most likely)

- hardware problems

- Windows problems (least likely)

 

I have 3 steps to diagnose hardware problems:

- free diagnostics:  http://www.carrona.org/hwdiag.html

- stripdown procedure:  http://www.carrona.org/strpdown.html

- replacing parts

 

All of the things that you mention could be causing your problem.

If you'd like to focus solely on the hardware, I'd suggest posting in the hardware forums for more expert assistance:  http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/f/7/internal-hardware/


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#8 Lxno78

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Posted 15 July 2015 - 05:15 PM

What was the cause, and why did it bring antivirus to mind?  Did you scan with something else?

 

The reason I first scanned was just to scan the file AMD Overdrive.exe before installing it, just for safety. However, Malwarebytes picked up this:

Broken.OpenCommand, HKCR\regfile\shell\open\command, "regedit.exe" "Good: (regedit.exe "Bad: ("regedit.exe" "%1"),,[ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]")", %4, %5

 

(I have since removed the Broken.OpenCommand with Malwarebytes.)

 

I got help from the malware section of these forums here and my system looks clean. But, some of those programs I was asked to run automatically clean items without user prompt (once run). I'm not a huge fan of that type of "cleaning".

 

ESET was just for reassurance.

 

The reason for AMD Overdrive was solely to check the CPU thermal margin (I read that AMD chips are read more accurately by that program, maybe those threads were old). I hope opening AMD Overdrive did not automatically overclock or change anything (I did not play with any settings).

 

-----

 

I do want to update the BIOS at this point it seems it would help, but I want to be a little more certain of my problem before I do, encase it is a hardware problem which might crash my PC when updating.

 

Let me run the hard drive diagnostics and I will post my findings.

 

If this is correct, then here's what's happening (IMO):...

 

 

Basically that's it. The power button and reset button cease to function as well (I can't shut down by holding the power button, reset button does nothing).

And, plugging the DVI connector into the original motherboard port does not restore the video signal (possible ruling out the graphics card being the issue).

 

Also, the second time it crashed I wasn't at the computer, but it was still on the login screen (or lock screen if you want to call it).

 

This might help:

- A few weeks after I first built my computer (way before it was crashing). The USB 3.0 ports would occasionally not "turn on" or work when I turned on the computer. I simple restart would fix it. Although I read Windows 8 has issues with this due to a USB power saving option (which I turned off) (Article found here).

 

- When I original built the computer some of the connectors were in the wrong place. I tried to turn the computer but it would not until I made the right connections. I already asked about that one, and the consensus seemed that if I could boot up and all USB ports and system fans worked I should be okay.

 

I just provide suggestions that help point the owner in a (hopefully) more helpful direction.

 

 

This is very helpful. I wouldn't even have know about most of these diagnostic tools. I wouldn't even have been able to look further into this lol.


Edited by Lxno78, 15 July 2015 - 05:17 PM.


#9 Lxno78

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 04:19 AM

So, far I've been able to run the Seagate Seatools tests. I ran the basic tests and both hard drives passed all o f them.

 

I wanted to try and isolate the problem I was having and turned the computer on and tried to log in a few times. These were the results:

 

Setup - All components in:

 

Boot Up 1 - Computer seized up and monitor went black as soon as login screen appeared. Had to turn off the PSU.

 

Boot Up 2 - Computer booted up and logged in normally.

 

Boot Up 3 - Computer seized up and monitor went black as soon as login screen appeared. Had to turn off the PSU.

 

Boot Up 4 - Computer booted up and logged in normally.

 

Boot Up 5 - Computer seized up and monitor went black as soon as login screen appeared. Had to turn off the PSU.

 

Boot Up 6 - Computer booted up and logged in normally.

 

Setup - Removed one stick of RAM:

 

Boot Up 7 - Computer seized up and monitor went black as soon as login screen appeared. Had to turn off the PSU.

 

Boot Up 8 - Computer booted up and logged in normally.

 

Boot Up 9 - Computer seized up and monitor went black as soon as login screen appeared. Had to turn off the PSU.

 

Setup - One stick of RAM and Removed Screws from outside part of GPU metal cover plate (to test if the screws and metal plate was somehow grounding me to the case) :

 

Boot Up 10 - Computer booted up and logged in normally.

 

Boot Up 11 - Computer seized up and monitor went black as soon as login screen appeared. Had to turn off the PSU.

 

Setup - One stick of RAM and Removed Entire GPU :

 

Boot Up 12 - Computer booted up and logged in normally.

 

Boot Up 13 - Computer booted up and logged in normally.

 

Boot Up 14 - Computer seized up and monitor went black as soon as login screen appeared. Had to turn off the PSU.

 

(Note: This time before the screen cut out I got really weird "fuzzy, green, horizontal striped" distortion that faded in over the screen before turning black.

 

Boot Up 15 - Computer booted up and logged in normally.

 

 

The problem seems to occur right when the log in screen comes on and only every other time.

 

My thoughts are either the Motherboard or PSU. The PSU is modular and there are a lot of extra cables at the bottom of the case. Some of the unused connectors where loosely touch my hard drive and some of the unused connectors are rest loosely on the bottom of the case. It doesn't seem like that could cause the problem, but I'm just throwing it out there.

 

I can test the one stick of RAM with memtest overnight and then some, to see if the RAM is faulty.

 

 If it's better I move over to Hardware section of the forums I can copy and paste this there?


Edited by Lxno78, 16 July 2015 - 05:07 AM.


#10 usasma

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 10:32 AM

Yes, I'd suggest moving it over to the hardware forums.

 

You can send a message to a moderator or higher and they can move the topic for you.


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#11 Lxno78

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 11:14 AM

I figured it out. It was AMD Overdrive. There was a service (AODService) that was checked in the Startup tab of MSConfig. So AMD Overdrive must have been interfering with a BIOS setting, doing something with the voltage of the CPU, or conflicting with other software. I've been able to boot my computer and log in quite a few times without issue.

 

How much damage do you think this may have caused my internal hardware?

 

Is there anything I can do to check for hardware damage? I suppose chkdsk for the HDD, but anything else? What can I do, if anything, for the GPU, CPU, SSD, and motherboard? How can I see if the CPU and GPU are set back to the proper settings (I am assuming they are back to normal as things are running now)? 

 

 

 

Lastly, thank so much for helping my out and my apologies for causing such an issue in the first place.


Edited by Lxno78, 17 July 2015 - 10:13 PM.


#12 usasma

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 05:43 AM

AMD OverDrive is a problem program that's known to cause BSOD's - so I wouldn't be surprised if it caused other problems.

Unfortunately it doesn't leave many traces when it malfunctions - so figuring out what's causing the problem is difficult.

 

I don't think that it would have caused any significant damage to the system.  But keep an eye on it for a week or two just to be sure.

 

CHKDSK checks for corruptions in the file system on the hard drive.  It does not test the physical hard drive itself.

Some things to try:

- set the BIOS/UEFI to default values

- run these free hardware diagnostics:  http://www.carrona.org/hwdiag.html

- testing any other hardware is usually done by either removing the hardware, or by replacing it with another piece that is known to be working. (usually isn't worth doing unless you see specific problems that weren't identified by the other hardware diagnostics).


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#13 Lxno78

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 01:39 PM

I'll definitely be running those diagnostic programs and resetting BIOS to default. 

 

Should I do a system restore to a point from before I installed AMD Overdrive? Would that be helpful at all?



#14 usasma

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 05:25 AM

Is the system still crashing?

I don't think that a System Restore will help you - but OTOH, I don't think that it'd hurt anything.

So, it's your call.


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#15 Lxno78

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Posted 21 July 2015 - 03:38 AM

Everything seems to be working fine right now. I probably won't need the system restore.

 

Thank you for the help!  :)


Edited by Lxno78, 21 July 2015 - 05:44 AM.





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