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"No, Microsoft won't cut off support for Windows 10 in four years", via Neowin


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#1 Aura

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 09:11 AM

Theres a story currently going around that claims Windows 10 will 'expire' after four, or even two years and that users might have to pay for updates after that. That story is bogus and heres why.

Forbes is reporting that a change in the way Microsoft talks about the Windows 10 support lifecycle might point to a dire future, where users would be hooked into paying for updates once the current free upgrade offer expires. Basically, according to this, Microsoft is pulling a bait-and-switch and planning on forcing users to pay for updates or be stranded on an old version of Windows.

The report is based on a footnote in one of Microsofts financial slides that explains how, once Windows 10 launches, the company will need to defer revenue over the lifetime of the OS, thanks to its new way of updating the system. But unlike previous occasions, now Microsoft also mentions that the supported lifetime of a device that upgrades to Windows 10 will be between two and four years and will primarily be determined by customer type, not by device form-factor as previously stated.


No, Microsoft won't cut off support for Windows 10 in four years

This should calm down a few rumors, guesses and assumptions going around this section.

Thank you to JMH3143 for posting this on TSF. I saw it there and thought it would be a good idea for it to be posted there as well.

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#2 gigawert

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 06:42 PM

Phew...


John 3:16

 "God loved the world so much that He gave His uniquely-sired Son, with the result that anyone who believes in Him would never perish but have eternal life."


#3 brainout

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 05:31 PM

I don't get it.  Why would Forbes be so confused?  Granted, 'supported lifetime of the device' is not 'lifetime of the device', but there's nothing to suggest that -- whatever that means -- that somehow MSFT will be charging after the period ends.  If anything, the suggestion would be that no more support would be provided.  So?  That ends up being the same as 5 years now.  Frankly, I think it's too generous.  I actually believe in paying an annual subscription, but MSFT won't do that for consumers.  Only for Enterprise.  License,,not subscription, has and so far as I know, remains its policy. I would LIKE to see it go to subcription.  Nadella's maiden speech sounded like MSFT would be going in that direction, but Office 365 is as far as it has gone.

 

Subscription for the OS would mean no support if no payment. It couldn't mean lockdown, since the OS is on your machine.  But it would end support.  And it should.  Unpaid support is the problem.  I don't believe in free updates.  People deserve to be paid.  Oh well.  Forbes of all 'entities', lives on subscription, so should know that.  When your Forbes subscription ends, do you have to return all the magazines issues you got?  NO.  You just stop getting new ones.  Seriously, this shouldn't even be an issue (pun very intended, I'm trying to type as much as possible and get used to my new keyboard).

 

Forbes should know the difference between allocating revenue and actual services promised to a customer.  The former is an accounting convention which attempts to amortize (spread) COSTS of service over a certain period.  The actual costs are something else.  Dang, I do this for a living and am but a little brainout.  I know better, why would Forbes be so dumb?  IF IF IF IF it's Forbes being dumb.  Maybe sensationalistic.

 

Let me illustrate (excuse to type, but also to help).  I do pension plans for a living.  The Government allows huge tax deductions to companies willing to deposit large sums in retirement plans.  There are deduction limits, and the limits, partly involve 'amortizing' the expected future cost of those benefits.  But over how long? If I amortize ALL the cost over say 2 years, then the deduction is HUGE.  But if over 30, then the needed contribution is small, and the plan actually might not have enough money in it.

 

See the point?  It's an ASSUMPTION about COSTS in the FUTURE.  With a pretty wide range.  Historically, 1-30 or even 1-40 years can be used.  So then you have to have good REASON for picking one number over another, or can be accused of just picking a number to get the deduction/deposit you want.  See the point?

 

Same for MSFT: if it writes off all its expense in one year, that saves it more in taxes. So they have to justify a longer period, so what period do they use?  2-4 years, is their answer right now.  Might change.

 

But just as a company's deposit to a retirement plan doesn't have anything to do with what it will actually cost or how long that employee will be paid (analogous to how long your 'free' updates last), so too the period over which writeoffs are used has nothing to do with how long the costs will last.

 

TMI? Did I make it clear?  If not, yell at me.


Edited by brainout, 13 July 2015 - 05:45 PM.

(Away, Notifications Off) AUDIT PREMISES, my guidon.  -- brainout or brainouty on vimeo or Youtube, domain brainout.net


#4 JazzMahn

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 01:48 PM

Aura,

 

I'm sure you've heard of Office 365.  I think you will see a Windows 365 in one or two years.  I do believe that Microsoft will continue to support Windows 10 for the life of the operating system but updates for "Windows 365" will have additional features that would not be available for the Windows 10 user.  Microsoft is making plans to implement something once many Windows users make the jump to Windows 10.  This Trojan horse (not virus variety) will continue to make Microsoft money long past what their original Windows 10 upgrade would have generated.  We need to remember that Microsoft didn't gain the number 1 ranking as the world's provider of computer operating systems by giving things away.  There is a method in their madness and I am confidant that we will see the play out in the near future.



#5 brainout

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 11:10 AM

Microsoft's OWN statement of Win10 updates support, not any pundit's or hearsay, here at microsoft.com.  Note carefully, the wording in the ** footnote, which is integral to the terms.  So when your OEM support ends, so do the updates.  If you have no OEM support, you have no updates.  So it is not for as long as your device lives, not for 10 years, but terminates when your OEM support dies, if earlier.  For machines older than 3 years and not under some special OEM contract with Enterprise, that likely means no OEM support remains, so no updates, either.


Edited by brainout, 19 July 2015 - 11:13 AM.

(Away, Notifications Off) AUDIT PREMISES, my guidon.  -- brainout or brainouty on vimeo or Youtube, domain brainout.net


#6 leithanne

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 01:22 PM

Not, exactly, brainout. The footnote says "A device may not be able to receive updates if the device hardware is incompatible, lacking current drivers, or otherwise outside of the Original Equipment Manufacturer’s (“OEM”) support period." (Emphasis mine.)

 

That implies that it, also, may be able to, just fine. After all, Microsoft isn't going to guarantee 10 will work for another 10 years on my 2009 laptop, and I wouldn't expect them to.



#7 brainout

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 01:27 PM

@leithanne:  depends on how you read 'may'.  Third person subjunctive as you noted:  maybe yes, maybe no.

 

The actual text is 'may not be able to receive' (I bolded the text).  Does that mean not eligible, not permitted by MS, what?  Or unable due to some limitation inside the device?  See, in law you have to view things in context,and the context, is provided by the whole paragraph, the ** you can read here.  Those are Microsoft's own words.  I show them live onscreen to go through each of the clauses in that paragraph, here

 

I would love being proven incorrect.  It's a blessing to be proven wrong, and get the right thing instead.

 

And no, Microsoft doesn't OWE anyone 10 years' updates, nor should it guarantee them; I would rather pay for the updates, frankly. But that's not the issue. The issue, is WHAT ARE THE PROVISIONS.  Unfortunately, many misrepresent those provisions.  So let's bypass all the hearsay, and go to source.  The above two links, do that.

 

Okay, that's the end of my due diligence reporting on this;  if I find anything important and new, will report again, else am going back to work.  Thank y'all for your patience.


Edited by brainout, 19 July 2015 - 02:15 PM.

(Away, Notifications Off) AUDIT PREMISES, my guidon.  -- brainout or brainouty on vimeo or Youtube, domain brainout.net


#8 leithanne

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 02:11 PM

The first link is fact. The second is subjective - your opinion of what Microsoft's words mean. I read them differently. No problem. We can agree to disagree. My purpose in posting was to correct your assertation that "So when your OEM support ends, so do the updates.  If you have no OEM support, you have no updates..."

 

We don't know that. It might turn out to be true, but I doubt it. Can you imagine the flack Microsoft would get if they let all of us with older machines upgrade and then said "Sorry, no updates for you."?



#9 brainout

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 03:24 PM

Yeah, I hear ya, leithanne.  That's why I made the video.  So it's a reading of what MSFT says.  Clear language read aloud, going through the questions.  I'm not actually giving an opinion.  I don't even have an opinion, because there's no final EULA: the one you have in build 10240, has broken links.  The words say what they say, in English.  They have definitions.  I explained the definitions.

 

Now, if MSFT means something other than the words they used, they can clarify.  But I only have the words they used, now.  Again, I'm not anti-MSFT.  I'm anti, misrepresentation, which obviously I don't want to be guilty of, either.

 

Vid is in Youtube also, open for comment: I have over 940 Youtube subscribers, so I owe it to them.  If you find something incorrect, please do say so there, for the sake of those watching/reading on Youtube.  I don't censor and can't be offended, so say whatever you like.


Edited by brainout, 19 July 2015 - 03:33 PM.

(Away, Notifications Off) AUDIT PREMISES, my guidon.  -- brainout or brainouty on vimeo or Youtube, domain brainout.net


#10 leithanne

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 05:07 PM

But you are giving an opinion. When you say "If you have a used machine, you can't get updates", that is in no way based in fact. When you say that a Dell purchased at retail doesn't have OEM support, you're just plain wrong. This link from Dell adresses both issues. http://www.dell.com/support/assets-transfer/us/en/19#/Identify

 

I know that you think you're stating facts because of what you have inferred from the footnote, but, you're not. The moment you begin to do anything other than post the page, you are adding your opinion. Even reading it aloud, lets the inflections of your voice lead the listener in the direction you want him to go.



#11 brainout

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 07:07 PM

I never said that a Dell purchased at retail doesn't have OEM support.   Look: this is turning into an argument.  It will hijack the thread.  If you want to argue about this, feel free to do it in Youtube or vimeo.  Okay?


(Away, Notifications Off) AUDIT PREMISES, my guidon.  -- brainout or brainouty on vimeo or Youtube, domain brainout.net


#12 leithanne

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 08:20 PM

Okay. And I apologize to the group for my behavior.






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