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8.1 disabled automatic updates, but...


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#1 circe801

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Posted 13 June 2015 - 05:05 PM

just got a new laptop running 8.1 (which i hate--even vista was better), and one of the first things i did was disable automatic update, since i knew there would be many, and i like to check them first to see what they are.  well, update started checking for and auto-installing updates anyway (i knew because i checked update history and saw several 'pending restart' that i had NOT wanted).

 

apparently, one must ALSO go into 'pc settings'-->'update and recovery' and change settings THERE as well.  why is this??  is microsoft playing tricks again??  i mean, why--since i ALREADY have 8.1...



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#2 noknojon

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Posted 13 June 2015 - 08:49 PM

Hello circe801 -

I have just opened Control Panel > Windows Update and even the Win 10 is listed, but is not installed.
From what you post, do you have (like me) settings like this
>>> Download Updates but let me choose whether to install them <<<
Below that is "Show all available updates", that you can click at any time.
Then I have the next 2 boxes ticked, and clicked OK at the bottom. It pays to recheck this, as Windows 8 will often reset this, since the Default setting is "Automatically Install", that you do not want.

 

Thank You -



#3 rp88

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 01:59 PM

In my experience one can reliably turn of auutomatic updating just by using control panel, although there are options for it within pc settings they should always directly mirror what options you have set in control panel. Both should be "In-sync" so if you change update settings in either then both change to the setting you set whichever you used to set it.


One possible reason for what happened to you MIGHT be the existence of third party software which contains some kind of updater and thinks it is it's business to manage windows updates. It is possible that there might be some sort of tool on your computer (likely from the manufacturer) which might have things relating to update settings contained within it. MAYBE such a tool over-ruled what you set in control panel, though part of me suspects this should not be possible.

To see what state you are in at present look at the list of windows services (don't alter any of them though) which you can see by going to the services tab of task manager and clicking the blue text to "Open services". This should bring up a window with al your services listed. For the settings you like (the same settings as I use and personally recommened, that is "Check automatically but let me choose whether to download and install updates") there should be a service called Windows Update (also called wuauserv) near the bottom of the list (when arrange alphabetically) and it's startup type should be "manual (trigger start)". You could alos check you update settings are correct by running speccy. Under it's section labelled "operating system" the update setting will be listed near the top. In speccy the "Check automatically but let me choose whether to download and install updates" setting will be referred to as "autoupdate notify prior to download".

Please say what brand of computer this is, and also provide a list of all the installed programs (the bundled ones and those you installed yourself), that way we can see if any of them are known to have settings which might try to put updating onto settings you did not select.

circe801, you are indeed right that there are certain updates you will NOT want to install, and others which you may want to install or may wish to avoid like a disease (depending on your views as to whether the functionalities they add or change are good or bad). My recommendation is that you should install those calling themselves "security update for ..." as soon as you see them, others (that is non-security ones) can wait until you decide you want them, or be rejected if you don't think they will do you any good. Check every tuesday evening or wednesday morning to see what updates are available.

I have never seen windows 8 or 8.1 resetting it's update setting however they do give a little "flag" prompt in the bottom right hand corner where the operating system has the cheek to complain about the user's choice of settings. It regards the user setting updates in the sensible ("Check automatically but let me choose whether to download and install updates" as long as you give them a manual look over after every patch tuesday) as an "issue", but in my experience it has never taken actions against me and changed the settings by itself.

Edited by rp88, 14 June 2015 - 01:59 PM.

Back on this site, for a while anyway, been so busy the last year.

My systems:2 laptops, intel i3 processors, windows 8.1 installed on the hard-drive and linux mint 17.3 MATE installed to USB

#4 rp88

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 02:24 PM

Have you been able to find anything more regarding this?

As an extra thought, some antiviruses have a "software updater" function which you can choose to have or not have when you install the antivirus. Avast is one such antivirus which has this tool available for those who choose to use it. This is nothing to do with the antivirus's updating of itself and it's definitions, rather these "software updater" tools look at other programs on the computer and at the operating system and might sometimes update those. If you look at your antivirus, don't change anything for know, but see if you can find anything which might be a tool which is updating other software on the computer or the OS itself. Do not, ofcourse, turn off the antivirus's ability to self-update, having your antivivirus up-to-date is crucial. But see if your antivirus might have any features which could update other programs or your OS.

Other programs which might contain software updaters of the type which look at the system for other programs to update are "optimizers" and "boosters" (which as a general rule do not give any form of performance enhancement but often carry large risks) ,or "computer management" programs which might have been bundled with your system. On HP computers you get something called "hp support assistant" if it is set up in certain configurations it might attempt to automatically update the OS, or firmware/BIOS/UEFI/drivers, or third party programs despite the settings the user put in windows update itself. Do you have these sort of softwares on your machine("performance enhancer" ,"registry cleaner", "booster", "optimizer", "driver updater", "update manager", "computer manager", "assistant", "third party updater", "updater"...)? If so please report what they are, it might be possible to fix your issue by uninstalling an un-necessary program of this sort, or by tweaking settings of such programs so that they no longer interfere with updates to windows. If you aren't sure whether a program you run might be interfring with the settings you wish to set for windows update then list what the program is anyway and someone here might recognise whether it is able to change such windows update settings.

Edited by rp88, 17 June 2015 - 02:25 PM.

Back on this site, for a while anyway, been so busy the last year.

My systems:2 laptops, intel i3 processors, windows 8.1 installed on the hard-drive and linux mint 17.3 MATE installed to USB

#5 circe801

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 05:27 PM

checked everything--hp support assistant clear, trend micro titanium clear, no registry cleaners--just ccleaner, of which i only use the main window.  not much else besides a vpn, tor browser, firefox (default browser) & chrome (my husband needs for one work-related thing), mpc-hc media player.  i've ie disabled and same with wmp.  o, i also have a fractal generator program, revo uninstaller, auslogics disk defrag.  besides the os & hp stuff, not much more...



#6 rp88

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Posted 20 June 2015 - 12:35 PM

Hp support assistant could have done it. It does have the ability to control update settings, can you open it and look at what it's update settings are, if I were you I would disbale updates within HP support assistant, or maybe put them on "check automatically but don't download or install until I say so", then go and make sure your windows updates (in windows update under control panel) are set how you like them.

This should either rule out the possibility of HP support assistant interfering with your windows updates(if you find that updates in HP support assistant already disbaled or set to check but not download), or it should let you ensure HP support assistant doesn't do it again(if you find that HP support assistant was on automatic updates and then change the settings so they are no lnger automatic). It is important to note that the updates settings within HP support assistant are not the same thing as the update settings in control panel, the updates in control panel are for windows and sometimes other MS programs, the updates in HP support assistant include windows updates but alos loads of other stuff too. If you fuly disable updates within HP support assistant you can still have windows updates working (via windows update within the control panel) on any of their 4 available settings. After changing update settings in HP support assistant though, make sure to go into control panel and check that doing so hasn't altered the windows updates settings, if it has change the HP support assistant update settings to whatever you want them to be FIRST, THEN go to control panel and change the windows updates to how you want them.

You might also consider disabling some of HP support assistant's startups (some bits of it start at log on), if you want to I can explain how. I have an HP computer myself and have noticed the existance of the update settings within HP support assistant, and it makes sense that they could potentially over-ride the windows update settings. Personally I wouldn't suggest uninstalling hP support assistant, but I would suggest disabling all it's startups so that it only runs when you actually want to use it. If you want to disbale it's startups I will explain how, because it's not quite as simple as it might initially sound, though it's not hard once you know how.

Also, can you provide a full list of your programs, if you download minitoolbox from this site (here http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/download/minitoolbox/ ) and run it with "list installed programs" ticked, and NOTHING ELSE ticked, it creates a txt file with a list of ALL your programs in it. This list can be easily copied and pasted into a reply on this forum. You might have more programs installed than you realise, this will list all of them, including all the ones you describe as "OS and HP stuff".

Thanks

Edited by rp88, 20 June 2015 - 12:35 PM.

Back on this site, for a while anyway, been so busy the last year.

My systems:2 laptops, intel i3 processors, windows 8.1 installed on the hard-drive and linux mint 17.3 MATE installed to USB

#7 circe801

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 10:20 AM

dowesn't seem to have been support assistant, either--that is, as well, set to notify.  the 'two location' thing just seems like a trick to get you to automatic if you don't know about it.  i hate that, and i hate 8.1--but am wondering if 10 will actually be any better.  i am not interested in 'apps' you need to pay content fees for--have no use for them, and it's just extra work getting rid of the stuff... HEY, MICROSOFT--design something USEFUL--NOT consumer-oriented...



#8 circe801

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 10:27 AM

@rp88--that toolbox dl doesn't show 8 or 8.1 supported--but i guess you wouldn't have sent me there if it weren't okay.  i don't have to use that 'compatibility' crap, right??  also, can you use that on something like puran and actually have it work--or is it only for 'normal' programs and not utilities like that??  thanks.



#9 rp88

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 10:54 AM

Regarding post #7. If you, like me, want updates on a non-automatic setting so that you can choose to refuse those which might cause problems whilst accepting those which will do good, then you won't like windows 10. It seems that on windows 10 fully automatic is the only update setting that can be chosen. I also agree with your opinions about "apps", I never do and never will use the things. And if ms ever tries to sell me an app store based computer on which I can't run my old programs (proper programs, things from the xp days, but they still work on 8 and 8.1) then they'll lose a customer faster than they can say "wine on linux".


Regarding post #8, it doesn't say it is windows 8 or windows 8.1 capable, but it is. I, and many other users, have run minitoolbox on windows 8 and windows 8.1 computers. It works perfectly on them. There was an old discussion thread somewhere about why the program doesn't describe itself as 8 or 8.1 capable in that description, but it certainly is. If you download minitoolbox and run it then it should work fine and make the text file I mentioned. Minitoolbox is a program (an exe file) like any other, but it's not one you install, just one you run as and when you want it. As a general rule, anything that can run on windows 7 (whether it a program that is installed or one that is simply run) should work on windows 8 and on 8.1 . A good proportion of programs which ran on xp also run happily under windows 8 and 8.1, but some of the oldest xp programs will not.

Edited by rp88, 22 June 2015 - 10:56 AM.

Back on this site, for a while anyway, been so busy the last year.

My systems:2 laptops, intel i3 processors, windows 8.1 installed on the hard-drive and linux mint 17.3 MATE installed to USB

#10 circe801

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 11:07 AM

okay, rp88.  have dl'd and run it.  before i post results, i have a query or two, if you don't mind. first, regarding the 'apps', i was curious about what 'pinger' was, and while investigating (why, o, why didn't i just do a search on it?), i accidentally hit 'accept' t & c.  didn't create an account--as i said, it was an accident.  i doubt i'll use it and am considering uninstall, but, hey, you never know.  and, why are 2 instances showing on 'installed programs'??  next, why all the 'hidden' stuff??  also considering getting rid of some of the cyberlink stuff, but may keep some (such as 'label print') as there is a feature or two i may use.  if i get rid of some, will others still work??  and, before i forget, as you can see, i've yet to dl .net framework.  do i really need it?  i don't use a heck of a lot of programs.  o, AND, i DO NOT USE itunes.  can i get rid of 'bonjour'??  thanks, or if ot, i will post in diff forum.  here goes:

 

 

MiniToolBox by Farbar  Version: 11-05-2015 01
Ran by circe801 (administrator) on 22-06-2015 at 12:00:36
Running from "C:\Users\circe801\Downloads"
Microsoft Windows 8.1  (X64)
Model: HP ENVY 17 Notebook PC Manufacturer: Hewlett-Packard
Boot Mode: Normal
***************************************************************************

=========================== Installed Programs ============================

7-Zip 9.20 (x64 edition) (HKLM\...\{23170F69-40C1-2702-0920-000001000000}) (Version: 9.20.00.0 - Igor Pavlov)
Adobe Flash Player 18 NPAPI (HKLM-x32\...\Adobe Flash Player NPAPI) (Version: 18.0.0.160 - Adobe Systems Incorporated)
Adobe Shockwave Player 12.0 (HKLM-x32\...\Adobe Shockwave Player) (Version: 12.0.3.133 - Adobe Systems, Inc.)
Auslogics DiskDefrag (HKLM-x32\...\{DF6A13C0-77DF-41FE-BD05-6D5201EB0CE7}_is1) (Version: 5.4.0.0 - Auslogics Labs Pty Ltd)
Bonjour (HKLM\...\{6E3610B2-430D-4EB0-81E3-2B57E8B9DE8D}) (Version: 3.0.0.10 - Apple Inc.)
CCleaner (HKLM\...\CCleaner) (Version: 5.06 - Piriform)
CyberLink LabelPrint (HKLM-x32\...\InstallShield_{C59C179C-668D-49A9-B6EA-0121CCFC1243}) (Version: 2.5.4.6515 - CyberLink Corp.)
CyberLink Media Suite 10 (HKLM-x32\...\InstallShield_{1FBF6C24-C1fD-4101-A42B-0C564F9E8E79}) (Version: 10.0.4.2928 - CyberLink Corp.)
Cyberlink PhotoDirector (HKLM-x32\...\InstallShield_{39337565-330E-4ab6-A9AE-AC81E0720B10}) (Version: 3.0.2.4128 - CyberLink Corp.)
CyberLink Power2Go 8 (HKLM-x32\...\InstallShield_{2A87D48D-3FDF-41fd-97CD-A1E370EFFFE2}) (Version: 8.0.4.3130 - CyberLink Corp.)
CyberLink PowerDirector 10 (HKLM-x32\...\InstallShield_{B0B4F6D2-F2AE-451A-9496-6F2F6A897B32}) (Version: 10.0.4.3122 - CyberLink Corp.)
CyberLink PowerDVD 12 (HKLM-x32\...\InstallShield_{B46BEA36-0B71-4A4E-AE41-87241643FA0A}) (Version: 12.0.2.3418 - CyberLink Corp.)
CyberLink YouCam (HKLM-x32\...\InstallShield_{01FB4998-33C4-4431-85ED-079E3EEFE75D}) (Version: 5.0.1.3202 - CyberLink Corp.)
DisableMSDefender (HKLM\...\{74FE39A0-FB76-47CD-84BA-91E2BBB17EF2}) (Version: 1.0.0 - Hewlett-Packard Company) Hidden
Energy Star (HKLM\...\{465CA2B6-98AF-4E77-BE22-A908C34BB9EC}) (Version: 1.0.9 - Hewlett-Packard Company)
Google Chrome (HKLM-x32\...\Google Chrome) (Version: 43.0.2357.124 - Google Inc.)
Google Update Helper (HKLM-x32\...\{60EC980A-BDA2-4CB6-A427-B07A5498B4CA}) (Version: 1.3.27.5 - Google Inc.) Hidden
Hewlett-Packard ACLM.NET v1.2.2.3 (HKLM-x32\...\{6F340107-F9AA-47C6-B54C-C3A19F11553F}) (Version: 1.00.0000 - Hewlett-Packard Company) Hidden
HP 3D DriveGuard (HKLM-x32\...\{13133E99-B0D5-4143-B832-AAD55C62A41C}) (Version: 6.0.19.1 - Hewlett-Packard Company)
HP Connected Music (Meridian - installer) (HKLM-x32\...\StartHPConnectedMusic) (Version: 1.0 - Meridian Audio Ltd)
HP CoolSense (HKLM-x32\...\{59F8C5AA-91BD-423D-BF05-09A80F39898F}) (Version: 2.10.62 - Hewlett-Packard Company)
HP Documentation (HKLM-x32\...\{1154543C-D5D0-49BE-A004-82EE0A3746AE}) (Version: 1.1.0.0 - Hewlett-Packard)
HP Registration Service (HKLM\...\{D1E8F2D7-7794-4245-B286-87ED86C1893C}) (Version: 1.2.7493.4758 - Hewlett-Packard)
HP SimplePass (HKLM-x32\...\InstallShield_{314FAD12-F785-4471-BCE8-AB506642B9A1}) (Version: 8.00.49 - Hewlett-Packard)
HP Support Assistant (HKLM-x32\...\{904822F1-6C7D-4B91-B936-6A1C0810544C}) (Version: 7.7.34.34 - Hewlett-Packard Company)
HP Support Solutions Framework (HKLM-x32\...\{FC3C2B77-6800-48C6-A15D-9D1031130C16}) (Version: 11.51.0049 - Hewlett-Packard Company)
HP System Event Utility (HKLM-x32\...\{23EF407B-E7D0-4CB6-8916-43E5B9EEFDED}) (Version: 1.0.9 - Hewlett-Packard Company)
HP Utility Center (HKLM\...\{DCD5C599-5CCC-4E37-8938-FBB548D780C6}) (Version: 2.5.3 - Hewlett-Packard Company)
HP Wireless Button Driver (HKLM-x32\...\{30B2D1D8-0A07-4B71-9553-0710C5D31E35}) (Version: 1.1.2.1 - Hewlett-Packard Company)
IDT Audio (HKLM-x32\...\{E3A5A8AB-58F6-45FF-AFCB-C9AE18C05001}) (Version: 1.0.6491.0 - IDT)
Inst5675 (HKLM\...\{2DE6247C-7077-451B-8BA7-FFD1A2ABBB47}) (Version: 8.00.49 - Softex Inc.) Hidden
Inst5676 (HKLM\...\{878F6913-7421-4713-97F7-0A736EE2A188}) (Version: 8.00.49 - Softex Inc.) Hidden
Intel® Management Engine Components (HKLM-x32\...\{65153EA5-8B6E-43B6-857B-C6E4FC25798A}) (Version: 9.5.13.1706 - Intel Corporation)
Intel® Processor Graphics (HKLM-x32\...\{F0E3AD40-2BBD-4360-9C76-B9AC9A5886EA}) (Version: 10.18.10.3368 - Intel Corporation)
Intel® Rapid Storage Technology (HKLM\...\{409CB30E-E457-4008-9B1A-ED1B9EA21140}) (Version: 12.8.2.1000 - Intel Corporation)
Intel® Smart Connect Technology (HKLM\...\{9B5FD763-5074-474C-B898-24567E6450C8}) (Version: 4.2.40.2439 - Intel Corporation)
Mediatek Bluetooth (HKLM\...\{16BCAEDC-C115-1729-07C4-7A0091C699A6}) (Version: 11.0.749.0 - Mediatek)
Microsoft Office (HKLM-x32\...\{90150000-0138-0409-0000-0000000FF1CE}) (Version: 15.0.4569.1506 - Microsoft Corporation)
Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Redistributable (HKLM-x32\...\{710f4c1c-cc18-4c49-8cbf-51240c89a1a2}) (Version: 8.0.61001 - Microsoft Corporation)
Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Redistributable (HKLM-x32\...\{837b34e3-7c30-493c-8f6a-2b0f04e2912c}) (Version: 8.0.59193 - Microsoft Corporation)
Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 Redistributable - x64 9.0.21022 (HKLM\...\{350AA351-21FA-3270-8B7A-835434E766AD}) (Version: 9.0.21022 - Microsoft Corporation)
Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 Redistributable - x86 9.0.21022 (HKLM-x32\...\{FF66E9F6-83E7-3A3E-AF14-8DE9A809A6A4}) (Version: 9.0.21022 - Microsoft Corporation)
Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 Redistributable - x86 9.0.30729.17 (HKLM-x32\...\{9A25302D-30C0-39D9-BD6F-21E6EC160475}) (Version: 9.0.30729 - Microsoft Corporation)
Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 Redistributable - x86 9.0.30729.4148 (HKLM-x32\...\{1F1C2DFC-2D24-3E06-BCB8-725134ADF989}) (Version: 9.0.30729.4148 - Microsoft Corporation)
Microsoft Visual C++ 2010  x64 Redistributable - 10.0.40219 (HKLM\...\{1D8E6291-B0D5-35EC-8441-6616F567A0F7}) (Version: 10.0.40219 - Microsoft Corporation)
Microsoft Visual C++ 2010  x86 Redistributable - 10.0.40219 (HKLM-x32\...\{F0C3E5D1-1ADE-321E-8167-68EF0DE699A5}) (Version: 10.0.40219 - Microsoft Corporation)
Microsoft Visual C++ 2012 Redistributable (x64) - 11.0.50727 (HKLM-x32\...\{15134cb0-b767-4960-a911-f2d16ae54797}) (Version: 11.0.50727.1 - Microsoft Corporation)
Microsoft Visual C++ 2013 Redistributable (x86) - 12.0.21005 (HKLM-x32\...\{ce085a78-074e-4823-8dc1-8a721b94b76d}) (Version: 12.0.21005.1 - Microsoft Corporation)
Mozilla Firefox 38.0.5 (x86 en-US) (HKLM-x32\...\Mozilla Firefox 38.0.5 (x86 en-US)) (Version: 38.0.5 - Mozilla)
Mozilla Maintenance Service (HKLM-x32\...\MozillaMaintenanceService) (Version: 38.0.5 - Mozilla)
MPC-HC 1.7.9 (64-bit) (HKLM\...\{2ACBF1FA-F5C3-4B19-A774-B22A31F231B9}_is1) (Version: 1.7.9 - MPC-HC Team)
Pinger (HKLM-x32\...\{9B56B031-A6C0-4BB7-8F61-938548C1B759}) (Version: 1.1.1.2 - Pinger Inc.) Hidden
Pinger (HKLM-x32\...\Pinger 1.1.1.2) (Version: 1.1.1.2 - Pinger Inc.)
Ralink RT3290 802.11bgn Wi-Fi Adapter (HKLM-x32\...\{8FC4F1DD-F7FD-4766-804D-3C8FF1D309AF}) (Version: 5.0.34.0 - Mediatek)
Realtek Card Reader (HKLM-x32\...\{5BC2B5AB-80DE-4E83-B8CF-426902051D0A}) (Version: 6.2.9200.21239 - Realtek Semiconductor Corp.)
Realtek Ethernet Controller Driver (HKLM-x32\...\{8833FFB6-5B0C-4764-81AA-06DFEED9A476}) (Version: 8.19.726.2013 - Realtek)
Revo Uninstaller 1.95 (HKLM-x32\...\Revo Uninstaller) (Version: 1.95 - VS Revo Group)
SeaTools for Windows 1.4.0.2 (HKLM-x32\...\SeaTools for Windows) (Version: 1.4.0.2 - Seagate Technology)
SecurityKISS Tunnel v0.3.0 (HKLM\...\SecurityKISS Tunnel_is1) (Version:  - )
swMSM (HKLM-x32\...\{612C34C7-5E90-47D8-9B5C-0F717DD82726}) (Version: 12.0.0.1 - Adobe Systems, Inc) Hidden
Synaptics Pointing Device Driver (HKLM\...\SynTPDeinstKey) (Version: 17.0.8.0 - Synaptics Incorporated)
Trend Micro Internet Security (HKLM\...\{ABBD4BA8-6703-40D2-AB1E-5BB1F7DB49A4}) (Version: 8.0 - Trend Micro Inc.)
Trend Micro Titanium (HKLM\...\{ABBD4BA9-6703-40D2-AB1E-5BB1F7DB49A4}) (Version: 8.0 - Trend Micro Inc.) Hidden
Validity WBF DDK (HKLM\...\{21498212-1146-4540-8A81-6A1328BA19F2}) (Version: 4.5.228.0 - Validity Sensors, Inc.)

**** End of log ****
 



#11 rp88

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 12:20 PM

I'll begin by adressing anything noteworthy I can see in your list of programs, THEN I'll respond to the comment you made at the top of that post. Then I'll give advice on things you should and should not do.


Programs:
7zip is useful to have

adobe flash and shockwave are useful, but for security make sure that the plugins do not run automatically in your browser, make sure they are "click to play" or "ask to activate" or disbaled entirely except whrn you use them.

auslogics disc defrag, I'm not familiar with this.

bonjour, this was bundled wasn't it? I'm not sure what it does, you can search for information about it online if you want to know more. I uninstalled it on my computer, it isn't required for the system to run. The computer will work fine without it, but it might be useful to you.

ccleaner, useful, very useful, but don't use the registry cleaning bits.

all that cyberlink stuff, this can be useful to some users but isn't essential. As far as I know it includes some basic video tweaking and correction tools plus a media player and software for playing dvd discs. It's functions can be replicated by other programs if you remove it, but up to you. The computer as a whole will work fine if you choose to remove it and replace any aspects of it which you do use, there are many video editors available, many photo editors available and you can use VLC for playing DVDs. I cannot be sure what would happen if you removed one of the cyberlink programs but left others in place, I suspect the remaining ones would work fine but cannot be sure.

disablemsdefender, this is something which stops ms defender running so you can run another antivirus instead, it shouldn't cause problems, I have seen it on my own HP computer.

energy star, this does almost nothing, if anything it adds a few extra options for power settings. It doesn't do any harm though, and it doesn't use any resources so easiest to leave it in place.

idt audio, I'm not sure what this is.

inst 5675 and inst 5676, not sure what these are either.

intel programs, leave these in place, I think they are quite important, I know they shouldn't cause any problems.

mediatek bluetooth, not familiar with this, but I guess it's just a bluetooth driver.

ms office, word powerpoint and all the othr such programs. No problems here. Leave in place.

ms visual c++ redistributable, environment reuired for other program to run, leave in place.

mozilla firefox, excellent browser, leave in place.

MPC-HC 1.7.9, not sure what this is.

pinger, no idea what this is. I noticed your comments about having installed it recently, just as a tip for the future, it's usually best to read about programs before you download them. See what others have said before installing a piece of software yourself.

ralink, looks like a driver for your wi-fi systems.

realtek, useful drivers and programs to help control various hardware, audio hardware generally.

revo uninstaller, not usually needed, but might be sometimes useful to some users in the case of a program which doesn't want to leave when trying to remove it via the normal way under control panel(which works for almost everything).

seatools, not sure what this is, might have something to do with harddrive diagnostics though.

security KISS tunnel, not sure what this is. Something to do with a VPN maybe?

swMSM, I think this is related to flash and shockwave, shouldn't cause problems.

synaptics, this is a program/driver which helps your mouse and trackpad to run, leave in place.

trend micro, your antivirus.

validity WBF DDK, not sure what this is.

HP 3d drive guard, not entirely sure what this is. It might be something to do with drive encryption, or anti-theft systems, or it could be something else entirely. It wasn't on my HP laptop when I bought it so this program is clearly model specific. Look up more information about this before deciding what to do. If it is an anti-theft program or a drive encryption program then they can cause problems if you make mistakes when uninstalling them, so if you do want to uninstall it then check how first.

HP connected music, music streaming program, not needed unless you use it.

HP coolsense, unsure what this is. Model specific again.

HP documentation, your user manuals and such, not sure why it's a program rather than a folder full of pdf files, but worth leaving in place.

HP registration service, I think this only operates once, when you first set it up, but it should be fine to leave in place. At the very least it contains useful numbers like your device serial number.

HP simplepass, unsure what this is.

The other HP things, HP support assistant is a tool containing links to several utilities, I'm not entirely sure what all the others are. If any of them do run in the background then they would likely only do so when commanded to by HP support assistant.


Other than the possiblity of HP suport assistant causing this, which you seem to have ruled out by checking and finding that it was set to "Notify only" and then ask you if you wanted to install or reject it's updates, I can't see anything there which would be likely to interfre with your update settings. I cannot rule out that some of the programs might have done, but from this list it seems unlikely.

And as for the programs I am not familiar with I don't think they look to be the sort of things which could be altering update settings. As for the programs with which I am not familiar I can't be sure what they do, but they sound like a mixture of drivers and of things you have installed yourself. Some of your programs might be un-necessary, but none stands out as being a likely cause of this problem, and none stands out as known for being a very well known unwanted program.





On to your short note at the top of your latest post:

I am not familiar with pinger at all. I have no clue what it does or is for. I don't know whether it is a good program or junk. The fact there are two instances showing isn't all that strange, some programs need to install themselves in two parts to handle all of their functions, many programs have two instances showing. Sometimes this also reflects the fact that some programs keep the current, and 1 previous, version around when they update.


Hidden stuff, a lot of programs get classed like this, it is nothing particularly concerning. It usually means they are pieces within another program which install with it and uninstall with it.


I'm surprised the computer did not come with the .NET framework already on it. The .NET framework is another environment like the C++ one which is listed, it is required by certain programs to run. I cannot be sure whether you need the .NET framework if none of your existing programs use it, it might have other things to it which are useful. Certainly it is possible that some programs you download in the future might require it.

I would suspect therefore that you must be right on your thinking that the problem with windows update was caused by the settings in "pc settings" overriding the settings within control panel. This is certainly unusual, but it makes sense as a potential cause of what has happened, unless ms is trying to be extremely sneaky and somehow turn everyone's update settings to full auto.






I suggest you make yourself a system image, incase you ever need one (here is how, on windows 8.1 you find the system image making utility within "control panel"-->"file recovery"-->"system image backup" (or "make a system image") http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/create-system-image-in-windows-7-8/#manual ), now is as good a time as any, also I suggest you make some manufacturer's recovery media (there is a function for this within HP support assistant) and make a windows recovery USB stick (there is an option for this buried on control panel somewhere). These three things are worth having around in case of future emergencies, the system image is th most useful but the others can be helpful too.

Then I suggest you continue using the computer as normal, making sure to check regularly for updates and install the security ones as soon as you can, also being careful to check what it says in the descriptions of the various updates and being careful to avoid non-security ones which sound particularly problematic to you from reading the description.

IF anything strange like this happens again with windows update then please post again on this thread when it does, or start a new thread about it, and make sure to include a link in your first post to this thread so that people seeing a new thread could also read your earlier posts about it.



Also, if you DO NOT want windows 10 then avoid installing the windows update KB3035583, if you install it then you won't get forcibly upgraded or anything, but you will get "nag prompts" in your task bar.

Also, now that you have downloaded minitoolbox, keep the exe file around. It might be useful at some point in future. Often logs from it will be asked for on these forums. You should, unless specifically asked to, NOT tick the "List devices" option as if used incorrectly this can cause problems. If however you run it with any of the other options ticked it provides a log as you got for your programs and acts as a quick and helpful way to get basic information about your computer in an easily copied and pasted form. You will not however be likely to be able to make much sense of logs made by it, some of the things can be easily understood but others require an expert eye to deduce the menaing of some of the things minitoolbox logs can say.


Also, one last thing, could you open task manager, go to the services tab, then clcik the blue text "open services". DO NOT change ANY settings here but scroll to the bottom and just see what "startup type" is listed in the startup types column for the "windows update" service (also known as wuauserv). Please say what startup type it has.



As for HP support assistant, IF you want to disable it's background running elements then I include below a description of how to. I have copied it and altered it slightly from a post I made about HP support assistant some months back. You do not need to do this if you don't want to. But it might be helpful for you to know because it means you can keep the useful bits of HPSA for on-demand use, without having to have it all constantly running in the background.




"


Image shows HP support assistant interface, your version might be black or grey instead of white, but buttons should be the same, image is from HP's site.
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf-JAVA/Doc/images/449/c03540524.jpg

First things first go into HP support assistant, if you have the big "blue circle with a white question mark in it" button on the far right end of your task bar click this to access the program (you might need to click yes to a few UAC prompts in the process). If you don't have that button the it should exist as an "app" to get into it if you have windows 8.1 (, this should be listed on the "start screen" which can be accessed from the "start button". If you can't see that app either then you will need to hunt for the program, perhaps by searching through your C drive for things which have the right sort of name. Once you have the program open*, go into each section of it in turn and disable anything automatic, also make sure to set all it's update settings to manual checking or being fully off. Go through the various parts "My Computer" button, "Updates and Tune-ups" button,... switching off automatic settings and disabling updating. And also go to the white "settings" link on the top right of the interface, under that make sure to disable any automatic options you find and to turn on the option to show a button in the task bar but turn off the option to show pop-ups. Whilst HP support assistant is open you should also pin it to your task bar. With this done you can close it. Restart your computer at this point, just to make sure all the settings you changed stay as you like them.

Then
The startup tasks you must disable through CCleaner (or you might be able to use the startup's tab of task manager but I find CCleaner better for this)are:
In the "Windows" tab, Program="HPMessageService" File="C:\Program Files (x86)\Hewlett-Packard\HP System Event\HPMSGSVC.exe"
In the "Scheduled Tasks" tab, Program="HPGenoobereminder" File="C:\Program Files (x86)\Hewlett-Packard\HP Registration Service\HP GenOOBE\HPGenOOBE.exe"

The services you must disable in the services window (accessed via "Open Services" in the services tab of task manager) are:
Name= "HP Software Framework Service" Description=(none shown) This is the one responsible for hpqwmiex.exe
AND
Name="HP Support Assistant Service" Description="HP Support Assistant Service" This is the one responsible for hpsa_service.exe

In this services window DO NOT alter any other services, doing so could cause problems. Disabling those two services I have listed is safe to do (though they should NOT be deleted incase you ever want to re-enable them some day) but fiddling with others can cause problems.


You will also notice a service called HPWMISVC, which is responsible for a process called HPWMISVC.exe. I do not know what would happen if this were disabled, I left it enabled on mine. If you disable it I cannot predict what the results may be. I think it might have something to do with "hot keys" but it might be something else entirely.

With all this done no part of HP support assistant should run in the background any more, but it is still installed incase you ever want to use it. Other than HPWMISVC there should be no HP processes or services running automatically after this point either.

Remember that if at any time you do open HP support assistant to use it then after you have finished whatever you were doing with it you will have to go into the services window, and into CCleaner's startup manager to re-disable some of the services and tasks, just as explained above. Because the act of opening HP support assistant seems to reset some of it's startups to start as soon as you log on.

* If you haven't already then before starting to disable various functions of HPSA you should use it's facility to make recovery media, it will only let you make one copy of these. The type of media it makes are absolute last resort ones (full factory refresh, wipes your files, programs, system settings, everything) and system images should be used instead where possible, but these media are worth making.

You already appear to have CCleaner.

EDIT: IMPORTANT FINAL NOTE: once this is done make sure to go to windows update settings within control panel, put them on the setting you like (for you this seems to be "automatic check, manual download and install") but HP support assistant might change them when you are turning off all it's automatic features. Once You have finished disabling Hp support assistant, go into control panel--&gt;windows update and make sure that updates are set back to the setting you like. HP support assistant tries to manage window updates as well as HP updates. Once HP support assistant is disabled you need to make sure windows updates (which you will henceforth control through control panel--&gt;windows updates) are as you want them. Windows updates and HP updates are very different things, if you're happy with your current windows update settings you do not need to change them from what they currently are but after disabling HP support assistant you might need to put windows updates back to their current settings. Given the complication you have experienced with windows update settngs both in "control panel" and in "pc settings" you should check pc settings also once you have finished disabling HP support assistant, and make sure that the windows update setting under there is the same as the one you chose within control panel.


"

Edited by rp88, 22 June 2015 - 12:32 PM.

Back on this site, for a while anyway, been so busy the last year.

My systems:2 laptops, intel i3 processors, windows 8.1 installed on the hard-drive and linux mint 17.3 MATE installed to USB

#12 circe801

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 05:04 PM

thanks again, rp88.  nope, didn't install pinger--it's a stupid 8.1 'app'.  i just hit 'accept t&c' by mistake.  pretty sure pc came with it already installed--just like all those other stupid apps.  and, no, no--update settings are staying exactly as i set them.  actually, the initial post was kind of just a warning or commentary regarding that it seems you can change the settings in windows update, but if you don't change them in pc settings as well, you will not necessarily get what you asked for...



#13 circe801

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 05:24 PM

and, rp88--yea, i know what all the self-installed programs are.  but as for some of the hp/self-installed ones unfamiliar to you, 'hp simplepass' and 'validity' are re: fingerprint reader security.  the seatools is seagate hd utility, but works with any mfg hdd.  mpc-hc is a media player i'm trying--very similar in format compatibility to vlc, which is the one i've always used, but, so far, so good.  auslogics defrag is a pretty good one i've used before--that's why i've got it now, but actually don't need one just yet, and i hear the included windows 'optimizer' in 8.1 is better than the crap i had before in vista.  hp coolsense, i'm guessing, is a fan controller of some sort, as hp laptops have been known to have had some overheating issues in the past.  i've used speedfan before, but so far, no heat problems :).  as far as the other hp stuff, i will research to see if any is 'bloatware'--just because that kind of thing bothers me... and this 'bonjour' is going, going, GONE.  thanks for all your help, as usual!!



#14 rp88

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 11:43 AM

Glad to have helped.
Back on this site, for a while anyway, been so busy the last year.

My systems:2 laptops, intel i3 processors, windows 8.1 installed on the hard-drive and linux mint 17.3 MATE installed to USB

#15 Sintharius

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 01:41 PM

Bonjour is actually a software that comes with apps related to Apple, so if you have any Apple-related software (i.e. iTunes) then you are bound to have Bonjour on your system. However I see that you don't have anything related to Apple, so Bonjour is fine to uninstall.

Just want to correct rp88's thought that Bonjour is unwanted - no, it's not.

Edit: SeaTools for Windows is a hard drive diagnostic tool in the Windows environment. It is made for Seagates drives, but will work with other HDD brands as well.

Certain versions of .NET Framework is included into Windows as a feature - Windows 7 has built in .NET Framework 3.5, for example.

And finally, no need to keep the MiniToolbox file. It is better to download a new version as the tool is updated frequently.

Regards,
Alex

Edited by Alexstrasza, 24 June 2015 - 01:55 PM.





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