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Using 'external media' for upgrade?


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#1 clayto

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Posted 13 June 2015 - 08:14 AM

There is just one requirement for the upgrade for my 32 GB 8.1 Tablet which concerns me (at the moment).  It is the requirement for 16 GB of free storage space, which is more than twice what I have despite doing everything I can think of to reduce the demands on my HDD/SSD.

 

Then I found the following, rather hidden away in a forum:

 

'Windows 10 will use partition switching according to the pre-session presentation by Microsoft on how to upgrade to Windows 10. If enough space is not available, Windows 10 may expand the system partition to make room for the new OS. Likewise, on mobile phones, the app files and customizable system files may be transferred to SD card in case of low storage space.'

 

This looks to me like what I hoped might be possible.  I use an 'integral' SD Memory Card (which I could upgrade significantly if necessary) as if it were a (D) partition.  It now has most of my important programs on it, as portable apps.  If I have understood the quote above, W10 will use my SD Card as part of the upgrade.  Is this right?

Clarification / confirmation would be appreciated.

clayto

 

 



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#2 clayto

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Posted 13 June 2015 - 11:23 AM

A correction:  I dont know what the 32 GB relates to. The HDD / SSD size is 24 GB (or more precisely 23.82), much of it taken up by Windows 8.1

 

If it were necessary the (D) Memory Card can be up to 132 GB.  RAM is 2 GB (whereas the minimum requirement is 1 GB)



#3 clayto

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Posted 13 June 2015 - 11:42 AM

Another point I am curious about is that none of the Disk analyzing tools I have (such as MiniToolBox) detects the existence of either the Store apps (but only the Desktop programs), nor the programs/ apps on the Memory Card (D).  As a result, because of the 'hidden' nature of the Store apps I am not able to determine the total amount of storage space occupied. I also find that some of the tools show 'only available online' files as being on the HDD and taking up storage space whereas other tools do not show 'only available online' files at all.



#4 AndyFieldsMS

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 04:01 AM

That is a very interesting question since, I've never seen anything like that. If Microsoft can do that, that'd be great, so let's take some points in consideration. Let's say you have 2(two) 8GB "Hard Drives" and you need both of them to have enough space to install a Windows decently. There is not an option on the installation process that will allow you to install Windows on different partitions at the same time, even tough I don't see it completely impossible. Maybe Windows can use the partition to store certain folders for the new operating system but, will Windows 10 be installed on the new partition 100%? Which takes me to the next question, is there any other memory requirement, like "if you use an external media to upgrade, you will either way need at least 2GB of space on the root drive" or "external media needs to be at least 32GB to install the whole new OS on it" I don't like the idea of having the Windows installed on a SD card, how can you use your SD port afterwards? Like some Blackberry users they were required to format the OS and then to the upgrade to the newest version due to the lack of memory. Being a Windows customer I would never use the upgrade anyway, fresh installation I think may work better, and it should be a requirement for the new installation. Everybody should format their systems every 6 months.

#5 usasma

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 06:58 AM

http://www.windowscentral.com/why-higher-end-lumia-phones-cant-currently-run-windows-10-preview

The above article (from Feb 2015) states 2 things:

- it's not fully ready yet

- when it's ready, it'll support more devices (but not necessarily a particular device).


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#6 clayto

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 08:19 AM

It has been announced that, unlike the case with W8.1, users of W10 will have more control over where they save programs / apps / files ----  including saving / running Windows Store Apps on external media such as Memory Cards and USB Flash Drives.  This is very good news to those of us with small HDD / SSDs.  Mine is only 24 GB and I only have about 5GB free, despite all sorts of strategies to reduce the demands on the Drive.

 

As I understand it now, W10 will not only run OK on my Tablet, it will be even better, making more use of the external storage media. But getting W10 installed on it in the first place will be problematic --- it is supposed to need 16 GB free for this.  I still have seen only a rumour, nothing detailed, official or helpful from MS about how it is going to help users with 'small devices' (ie. small capacity HDs) which is a bit surprising as Windows Tablets are becoming increasingly popular, so I hear.  Among the rumours are that MS will recommend the IOS / clean install route instead of the upgrade route for 'small devices' ---- interestingly this is what the suppliers of my Quantum View Tablet have recommended to me. If so I am going to have to start learning about ISO, factory resets and clean installs and / or I might get my local technician to do it for me ---- he has carried out a clean install on this Tablet a few months ago.

 

I am unable to get the upgrade icon and app on my desktop --- I mainly want it not for the reservation but for the compatibility assistant, just in case there is some other obstacle lurking around. 

 

clayto



#7 AndyFieldsMS

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 04:00 AM

**update** Windows will only save the Windows.Old Folder on the additional storage media, if required. Main os files will not be loaded. Another considerations: If memory is less than 128GB, the option system restore will be turned off from the beggining of the installation. So this is mostly for people using tablets and phones. You can upgrade all your computers with only one download, there will be a share option in the network settings which will allow users to take the files from another computer, tablet or phone to upgrade to Windows 10. Edition or Language change require fresh installation. There will be a Go Back button available for 31 days right after the upgrade, in case you want to go back to the previous operating system. This might delete programs that were required to be uninstalled during the migration to Windows 10. Windows.old folder stored in media if required can be transfered to another media and it will work. In case that you want to do a system rollback, you will require the Windows.old folder. If main partition was changed on the system (for example you changed your C drive to a D drive with less space and then created another partition "E" to store your files) you will requiere fresh installation. Windows 10 will only match known installation paths. Windows 10 has cortana that also works Offline.

#8 AndyFieldsMS

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 04:12 AM

Clayto by the way, you might wanna try installing the update manually from MS website, so that you can get the button for Windows 10 upgrade/reserve. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3035583 If you are not able to get the button after manual installation, call Microsoft, this is a free support scenario, and you might get your computer checked before the upgrade by this guys for free as well. Hope it helps.

#9 clayto

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 01:26 PM

Thank you Andy, it is good to be getting some hard information --- though I will have to re-read it a couple of times before it sinks in.  

 

I will have a look at website you provide a link to.

 

I am not in a hurry, I expect to wait a couple of months after the launch before I upgrade.  However, I want to be well prepared so I dont rush into it without fully knowing what I am doing.  Also, I need to deal with some issues, especially my Tablet's lack of free storage space, and there does not seem to be a simple answer to this.

 

clayto



#10 Drew1903

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 02:01 AM

Clay,

Store APPs are not on your HDD.  Programs are but, Store APPs are not installed software.  If you look @ Task Manager you will see APPs are taking little of the resources.  Part of why they cannot be considered 'bloatware'.

I will, also, be candid enough to say A drive of 28GB is going to make things challenging... never mind any 'magic' Windows may have up its sleeve, it's small.  Win10 would like, @ least, 30 just for itself.  I, really, feel that (small) size is going to make things tough.



 


Edited by Drew1903, 02 July 2015 - 02:02 AM.


#11 clayto

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 06:06 AM

'I will, also, be candid enough to say A drive of 28GB is going to make things challenging... never mind any 'magic' Windows may have up its sleeve, it's small.  Win10 would like, @ least, 30 just for itself.  I, really, feel that (small) size is going to make things tough..

 

 

And yet a key statement early on was that any device that can run (is running) W 8.1 will be able to install and run Windows 10.  And my Tablet supplier emailed all customers to say that our Tablets would be suitable for the upgrade, and that W 10 would just occupy the space taken by W8.1.  I do hope we are not being misled.

 

Your point re the Memory Card Slot being 'occupied' is well taken but (a) is it not only intended for the temporary  upgrade process, not for the final install / permanent use  (is there any reason why I cannot use my USB Card Reader/Writer or a USB Flash Drive via my USB Hub, leaving the integral Drive (D) alone?  (Well, there is one reason which I can think of,  I do not  find the USB setup very reliable and have to keep re-inserting to get USB devices to register, risking corruption---- discussed in another Forum on this site).

 

Regarding the ISO route I see saving to a DVD is one option.  My DVDs are 4.7 GB.  Does that mean the ISO file is no larger than this (compressed?), or will multiple discs have to be used or what?

 

What do you think of compressing the SSD to save space?

 

Regarding Store Apps, I have found a useful utility which displays all installed Store Apps with details including size and location (on the C Drive) and enables various actions such as uninstall.  It shows a total of 889 MB used in my case, so not a big saving if they are uninstalled (which is also true of the Desktop programs remaining on my SSD).  It is  Store Applications Manager, appxmanager.exe   (not appmanager which is another utility)

 

https://vk.com/club93524469

 

 

There seems to be a lot  to sort out for those of us with 'small devices'.  I am glad I started early.

 

clayto

 


Edited by clayto, 02 July 2015 - 06:09 AM.


#12 Drew1903

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 06:18 AM

Clay,

It IS big enough for the OS.  My point was there might not be much room for additional things which why I mentioned Data going elsewhere.  Space fills up when other programs, photos, music, vids, etc are added.

The ISO for Win10 x64 is about 3.6 Gigs.  That is the size of the ISO... not the amount of space the installed OS uses or needs.

 



#13 Aura

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 06:53 AM

The .iso for Windows 10 64-bit is actually a bit bigger, 3.73GB (as of right now). If it continues to increase in size, a 4GB USB might not be enough to use as an installation media.

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#14 brainout

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 02:14 PM

Well whatever it is, build 10162 keeps on going back to square one, now asking for the EULA and for the product key over and over.  OH: it wants the real Windows I activated on the same machine, but that's not apparent at first.  And since THAT version of Windows was itself buggy, so that I had to get on the horn with MSFT to get the system to recognize the key (and the guy did, really nice experience) -- well, when I type the key in again here with 10 (the key for 8 which is now 8.1) -- well, it doesn't work AGAIN.

 

But hey you can SKIP the step (not easily apparent, it's in light blue on white).  Then it installs.  Again.  Who knows if it will complete.

 

This time the disk has a running and perfectly fine Win8.1, so I'm installing 10 to the remaining free volume. So we'll see.

 

Asked for product key again the third time, not at all clear which one, but typing in the generic key from the Insider's site worked.  Opted out of all the 'sharing'.  The 'sharing' disclosure is better than build 10130, but the way to opt out is not stated, you have to see the 2-pt type 'Customize' in light blue on dark blue in the lower left corner (very faint, even up close) to know you can pick that option.  So most will pick the BIG EXPRESS BUTTON, and unknowingly opt in for sharing (for it's still not clear, even in the disclosure).  Then after signing in with your MSFT account, you're bugged about Cortana, who wants all that sharing to respond to you (since I opted out of all of it).  So no sharing, no Cortana.

 

Now they want a PIN, and you don't know you can skip that too, unless you move the scroll bar all the way to the bottom.

 

GREAT.  I told it to install on the new volume #3, was quite specific about it, chose Custom Installation EACH TIME it asked, and Win10 ignored me.  I didn't want settings, files, or anything else, I wanted to see the DEFAULTS.  But it ignored me.

 

Thanks, MSFT for overriding what I told you expressly NOT to do.  Preserved some of my settings, inserted a bunch of live tiles I had deleted, didn't recognize the Aero themes but opted for one of the older 8.1 classic themes I had installed in Win8.0 but wasn't using, so I shut down. 

 

File Explorer calls the new volume, 'C'.  But it's not C.  You can say all you want that previews will have bugs, but three weeks from launch, bugs like these shouldn't occur, on this which is the closest thing to using external media for 'upgrade'.  It shouldn't ignore you when you say you want a clean install.

 

But it does dual boot, it is fast, and a soft reboot presents you with the dual boot menu again, making Win10 the default.

 

And there are NO options for High Contrast changing colors now.  You get NO choices except font sizes.  DISGUSTING.

 

So now I'll have to use Plus! from Win95 to change the stupid defaults.

 

This is no way to win customers, by restricting them to ugly settings unless they go through all kinds of hoops.  Done with you, Win10.  You hate us.


Edited by brainout, 07 July 2015 - 03:27 PM.

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#15 AndyFieldsMS

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 02:20 PM

Brainout this is a known issue when upgrading to this build, slui 4 command and phone activation might work, or enter the profuct key manually with slmgr.vbs commands.




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