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Linux Mint 17.1 MATE or Cinnamon, which is best?


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#1 cat1092

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 05:29 AM

I'm going to soon reinstall Linux MInt 17.1 back onto my computer & have a quick question. 

 

Is Linux Mint Cinnamon that much better than MATE? I've been using MATE for years, and am wondering if I'm missing out on anything better in Cinnamon. I've tried it before, seems to have a jerky feel, though that could be the computer needed some fine tuning for the OS, or I need time to get used to it, one or the other or a combination of both. 

 

It's been often stated that Cinnamon is a drop in replacement for Windows 7, if any of you are in this group, please feel free to speak up. I'd rather hear from those who have been running Cinnamon for a few months or years, though would also like to hear from those who ran it a couple of days & gave up on it & why. I may run Cinnamon in a virtual machine for a couple of days to get a feel for the OS, or one of my other computers, one has a not too old graphics card, a 1GB GDDR5 Radeon 7570 (Dell OEM). What I don't want to do is install a OS on my main PC, not like it & have to reinstall. Every format to my SSD is a full write of the surface area & why I have /home & Swap on HDD, because I run virtual machines. 

 

System specs are as follows, more details are in the 1st Speccy spec below, the other is a notebook that I just got, disregard that one, Linux causes that model of Samsung to partial brick during install & I don't have the experience to recover it. 

 

Dell XPS 8700 (upgraded a lot)

i7-4770 Quad Core CPU (3.40GHz w/3.90 Turbo Boost)

NVIDIA GTX 960 GPU (2GB GDDR5)

32GB RAM (shipped with a measly 12GB)

40GiB partition on SSD for the main or root partition, 465.7GiB for /home & 4GiB Swap

 

What I mainly want to know, is how 'mature' Cinnamon is, as the Mint I install will be my primary OS & I don't care to deal with an unstable release. I keep hearing 'it's maturing', it would be great to hear 'it's matured'. Though I've ran MATE for years, mainly because of how stable it is across a wide range of computers, would like a bit more eye candy, yet not that of KDE, have been there & done that, I want an OS to work just like it does in MATE, which basically has the same controls & runs the same apps. 

 

Being that Cinnamon is more graphics intense, I'd figure it has some eye candy of it's own, especially considered as a drop in replacement for a very popular OS in Windows 7, which by chance is still my favorite OS of that brand. 

 

Any & all suggestions will be appreciated, yet please keep it towards Linux MATE & Cinnamon, am not interested in discussing any other versions or distro releases. Linux MInt has served me well for 6 years at the time of this posting & I'm sticking with what works. 

 

Thanks for any responses given. :)

 

Cat


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#2 NickAu

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 05:32 AM

Ubuntu 14 is best.


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#3 Al1000

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 01:28 PM

Being that Cinnamon is more graphics intense, I'd figure it has some eye candy of it's own


I would have thought so too, but I installed Mint Cinnamon 17.1 not so long ago just to try it out and wasn't very impressed. Given the choice between the two, personally I would go for MATE.

#4 Guest_hollowface_*

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 02:44 PM

It's been often stated that Cinnamon is a drop in replacement for Windows 7


I think that's mostly because of the menu appearance/organization.
 

BZN7T3H.png

 

 

wKz0hOL.png

I'd rather hear from those who have been running Cinnamon for a few months or years, though would also like to hear from those who ran it a couple of days & gave up on it & why


I do have a Linux Mint Cinnamon virtual-machine, but only use it once in a while. Despite not being a long term/experienced Cinnamon user, I thought I'd throw in my two-cents anyways.

What I mainly want to know, is how 'mature' Cinnamon is


I've not experienced any bugs/issues thus far, consider it to be quite stable, and unlike Mate Desktop it uses GTK+3 not the outdated GTK+2. The Mate Desktop developers are working on GTK+3 support though, so that's something to look forward to.

Any & all suggestions will be appreciated, yet please keep it towards Linux MATE & Cinnamon


Moving to a different desktop-environment is a big decision, I'd suggest sticking with Linux Mint Mate, and setting up Linux Mint Cinnamon in a virtual-machine. Setup the virtual machine with some of the software you normally use so that you have an excuse to sometimes use the vm instead of the host. If you find you like Linux Mint Cinnamon, you can always switch to it the next time you do a re-install (perhaps when Linux Mint 18 comes out?). :)

#5 paul88ks

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 04:50 PM

Cat- i have Cinnamon and MATE installed on two partitions.I have been switching back and forth between them for a few months now,and though Cinnamon looks "prettier" I found MATE to be much easier to navigate.Now ,I'm just a novice with Linux,but for me,I'm going to cast my vote for MATE.

 

I can't really say why I like Mate more that Cinnamon,I just do!

 

Also - i don't really know the difference between GTK 2 and 3,so I wouldn't know which one is better.They are both stable OS's and I have had no problems with either.so I guess it's just a matter of preference to me--



#6 pcpunk

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 05:38 PM

Ubuntu 14 is best.

Bawaha, Nick is being bad again.  Only Cinnamon and Mate Nick LOL.  Come-on cat, you gotta be more open than that!

 

You know what I am going to say...Mint KDE baby! that is the only way to go.  I even looked into KubuntuKDE but the review was not very good in some aspects that were important to me.  I am a light user so perhaps that one is not for me, it's more the simple stuff that I like.

 

Cat, one thing I did like about Cinnamon-as you might remember, is the scrolling in the Menu is much smoother than Mate, at least in my pc, do you notice that also?  

I like to be able to follow with my eyes all the software as I scroll, and find it more difficult in Mate, but Mate is a little more organized in it's menu in some way.  Maybe it's my ADD or what not but that is how I feel about it.

 

KDE: You really need to give this a shot, it's not about EYE CANDY, it's about being able to customize, manage files etc. that I find KDE to be supreme.  One small and simple aspect is that you can expand the Menu so to not even have to scroll in some sections.  You should run it Live and add the Lancelot Menu, it's incredible, and IS eye-candy, but the way it flows and scrolls etc. is awesome.  And as stated in many many articles, Dolphin File Manager is awesome! AND, it's not green LOL.  So step out of the boring, and into the exciting LOL, just kidding.  You know I am a light user, and am not using all that eye candy, but really, it is more about function than eye-candy.

 

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#7 paul88ks

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 03:15 AM

 

KDE: You really need to give this a shot, it's not about EYE CANDY, it's about being able to customize, manage files etc. that I find KDE to be supreme.  One small and simple aspect is that you can expand the Menu so to not even have to scroll in some sections.  You should run it Live and add the Lancelot Menu, it's incredible, and IS eye-candy, but the way it flows and scrolls etc. is awesome.  And as stated in many many articles, Dolphin File Manager is awesome! AND, it's not green LOL.  So step out of the boring, and into the exciting LOL, just kidding.  You know I am a light user, and am not using all that eye candy, but really, it is more about function than eye-candy.

PC- what is the Lancelot menu? - i never encountered that option- also- you can change the theme in MATE- it doesn't have to be green- blue is my favorite color,and i changed that right away- I did like the KDE desktop interface- but as you said- MATE seemed much more 'organized'- maybe i will run KDE LIVE again,and check it out! So Many Choices!!!



#8 cat1092

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 03:17 AM

 

 

Come-on cat, you gotta be more open than that!

 

No I don't either, these are my computers that I have thousands of dollars invested in. I have the final say in what OS's are installed on these. 

 

 

 

KDE: You really need to give this a shot,

 

I already have (twice) & at least one of my apps wouldn't upgrade to the latest version (ClamTK). It appears as though it's opening, yet it doesn't. Who knows how many more would do the same? 

 

Plus I don't like that little bouncing thing no more than I like that blue neon circle on Windows. 

 

 

 

 Only Cinnamon and Mate Nick LOL.

 

And you're doing the same by introducing KDE in the mix! I asked about a choice between two OS's & those two only. 

 

 

 

I would have thought so too, but I installed Mint Cinnamon 17.1 not so long ago just to try it out and wasn't very impressed. Given the choice between the two, personally I would go for MATE. 

 

Thanks for your honest opinion, Al. :)

 

It's factoring into my decision making. 

 

 

 

Moving to a different desktop-environment is a big decision, I'd suggest sticking with Linux Mint Mate, and setting up Linux Mint Cinnamon in a virtual-machine.

 

hollowface, sounds reasonable & I can get some experience with the OS & keep using MATE, after all, Mint 18 will be released next year, roughly 2-3 months after Ubuntu 16.04 is released & then I'll be better informed. Thanks for your input, it's looking to be tilting the table.  :)

 

 

 

Cat- i have Cinnamon and MATE installed on two partitions.I have been switching back and forth between them for a few months now,and though Cinnamon looks "prettier" I found MATE to be much easier to navigate.Now ,I'm just a novice with Linux,but for me,I'm going to cast my vote for MATE.

 

Paul, thanks for contributing, yes I thought the same, MATE is very easy for me to navigate around with, though have used it a long time & should be able to. You've likely used MATE a bit more than Cinnamon yourself. 

 

I believe that practice makes perfect, and there's no better way to do this than to install it in a VM or spare PC & run it. Like you, I don't understand all of these technical differences, though it's likely the Gnome version used, Mint has been at Gnome 2 for some years, and what made the OS very popular after the Unity release in 2010. Still, it's due an upgrade to the next level, if for no other reason, compatibility. 

 

There's a chance that Ubuntu 16.04 won't offer 32 bit ISO's anymore (or will likely be the last one), whether or not this trickles down to the other distros based on Ubuntu, I don't know. Ubuntu has suggested the 64 bit ISO for 64 bit computers since version 13.10. In the past, they were pushing 32 bit to everyone, maybe due to compatibility at the time. More printers & other hardware worked better with 32 bit Ubuntu/Mint & I can vouch for that. If I were to install the 32 bit .deb installer for my Kodak printer on my last 32 bit Mint install, the printer would work better than on the 64 bit builds. No .deb files for 64 bit. 

 

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTgxOTQ

 

This article, more official, supports this theory, as maintaining 32 bit OS's for an ever shrinking group is getting harder to justify, one factor is cost. Ubuntu is free, yet Canonical's employees are paid. Just like with XP usage finally declining, so is 32 bit OS's of all brands as a whole. Heck, many of the current smartphones offered are 64 bit. 

 

http://www.geekssharingspace.org/2014/11/32-bit-iso-images-of-ubuntu-will-be.html

 

So for those needing 32 bit versions, make sure to always grab the latest LTS versions, once they're gone, the party is over. The good thing is that as it stands today, Ubuntu 14.04/Linux Mint 17 are supported until April 2019, if just one more LTS release for 32 bit users comes out, it'll be good until 2021, by then it would be reasonable to say these computers will mostly be recycled into new ones. Plus some of the 64 bit models in use today. 

 

Paul, thanks for your input, has also made a impact on my decision making. :)

 

 

 

Ubuntu 14 is best.

 

I don't like the Unity desktop no more than that of Windows 8. While some may prefer Ubuntu 14.04.2 LTS, it's just not my cup of tea. 

 

On the other hand, may have to give Ubuntu MATE 16.04 a shot on one of my other computers when released as an LTS (what I prefer), it was more like old school Ubuntu (before 10.04 LTS). I still have a couple of these CD's, shipped direct from Canonical, back when they were offering free media to users. I suppose that program is also down the toilet, along with Ubuntu One & some other freebies, such as their music app. 

 

I appreciate all of the input offered, and based on the content I've read, will stick with MATE for now, and run Cinnamon in a virtual machine or on a spare PC that has a not too old GPU. It's best to get a good feel of a new OS before committing to moving to another, and the 'why fix what isn't broken' is also a factor to consider. Changing OS's or DE's even among a brand after long term use of one is a major change, one not to be taken lightly. 

 

Though will indeed explore Cinnamon some more. I know it's a good OS, yet I need to get to know it better before install, so that I know what does & doesn't work with my existing software choices. 

 

Many Thanks for your support! :)

 

Cat


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#9 cat1092

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 03:03 AM

Linux Mint MATE 17.1 is finally back on my main PC after a near two week absence! :thumbup2:

 

Many mistakes were avoided this time around though, for starters, I enabled dual displays in the BIOS & performed the install using my Intel HD 4600 Graphics, which didn't cause the issues that I had when installing the GXT 960 graphics card in the PC. This allowed me to place the proper repositories in place so that I could have the latest drivers & software installed for when I did plug into it. 

 

Only one minor glitch after connecting to the GTX 960, that XXL Grub screen, yet was easily able to fix that with nano per the instructions that Al gave me in my OP in regards to that GPU. After updating Grub & rebooting, was back in business with no ill side effects. 

 

 

cat@cat-XPS-8700 ~ $ inxi -Fx
System:    Host: cat-XPS-8700 Kernel: 3.13.0-37-generic x86_64 (64 bit, gcc: 4.8.2) 
           Desktop: N/A Distro: Linux Mint 17.1 Rebecca
Machine:   System: Dell product: XPS 8700
           Mobo: Dell model: 0KWVT8 version: A00 Bios: Dell version: A10 date: 12/08/2014
CPU:       Quad core Intel Core i7-4770 CPU (-HT-MCP-) cache: 8192 KB flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx) bmips: 27137.5 
           Clock Speeds: 1: 3401.00 MHz 2: 3401.00 MHz 3: 3401.00 MHz 4: 3401.00 MHz 5: 3401.00 MHz 6: 3401.00 MHz 7: 3401.00 MHz 8: 3401.00 MHz
Graphics:  Card: NVIDIA Device 1401 bus-ID: 01:00.0 
           X.Org: 1.15.1 drivers: nvidia (unloaded: fbdev,vesa,nouveau) Resolution: 1920x1080@60.0hz 
           GLX Renderer: GeForce GTX 960/PCIe/SSE2 GLX Version: 4.5.0 NVIDIA 352.09 Direct Rendering: Yes
Audio:     Card-1: NVIDIA Device 0fba driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 01:00.1 Sound: ALSA ver: k3.13.0-37-generic
           Card-2: Intel 8 Series/C220 Series Chipset High Definition Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:1b.0
           Card-3: Logitech driver: USB Audio usb-ID: 046d:0829
Network:   Card-1: Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6235 driver: iwlwifi ver: in-tree: bus-ID: 04:00.0
           IF: wlan0 state: down mac: c4:85:08:40:98:27
           Card-2: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller 
           driver: r8169 ver: 2.3LK-NAPI port: d000 bus-ID: 03:00.0
           IF: eth0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: b8:ca:3a:97:33:8f
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 1504.3GB (4.5% used) 1: id: /dev/sda model: ST1000DM003 size: 1000.2GB 
           2: id: /dev/sdb model: Samsung_SSD_850 size: 120.0GB 3: id: /dev/sdc model: Samsung_SSD_840 size: 128.0GB 
           4: id: /dev/sdd model: Crucial_CT256M55 size: 256.1GB 
Partition: ID: / size: 40G used: 7.3G (20%) fs: ext4 ID: /home size: 459G used: 57G (13%) fs: ext4 
           ID: swap-1 size: 4.33GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap 
RAID:      No RAID devices detected - /proc/mdstat and md_mod kernel raid module present
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 29.8C mobo: 27.8C gpu: 0.0:32C 
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A 
Info:      Processes: 258 Uptime: 5:46 Memory: 3195.3/32126.8MB Runlevel: 2 Gcc sys: 4.8.2 Client: Shell inxi: 1.8.4 
cat@cat-XPS-8700 ~ $ 
 
 

 

Am unsure of why those XOrg drivers are showing, I know that the latest NVIDIA ones (352.09) were installed. 

 

Can't complain, considering it only required two hours for the total install, including configuration. 

 

Will be trying Cinnamon soon and maybe with Mint 18 make the switch, as long as it meets my needs & runs good on this PC. 

 

Thanks to everyone for your opinions, a couple of which tipped the scales. :)

 

Cat


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#10 Al1000

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 08:07 AM

Am unsure of why those XOrg drivers are showing, I know that the latest NVIDIA ones (352.09) were installed.

 

Graphics:  Card: NVIDIA Device 1401 bus-ID: 01:00.0 
           X.Org: 1.15.1 drivers: nvidia (unloaded: fbdev,vesa,nouveau) Resolution: 1920x1080@60.0hz 
           GLX Renderer: GeForce GTX 960/PCIe/SSE2 GLX Version: 4.5.0 NVIDIA 352.09 Direct Rendering: Yes


It seems to be showing the nvidia driver correctly, as in it's the one that's being used. Here is the output of inxi -Fx on my pc:
 

Graphics: Card: NVIDIA G84 [GeForce 8600 GT] bus-ID: 01:00.0
X.Org: 1.15.1 driver: nvidia Resolution: 1280x1024@75.0hz, 1280x1024@60.0hz
GLX Renderer: GeForce 8600 GT/PCIe/SSE2/3DNOW! GLX Version: 3.3.0 NVIDIA 331.113 Direct Rendering: Yes


It just so happens that I was reading up on installing Nvidia drivers manually the other day, as that's what I'll have to do with Puppy if I am to install one to it. One thing I read is that the Nvidia installer normally blacklists the alternative drivers, but that doesn't appear to have happened, as they are listed as being "unloaded."

Do you get any output from:
cat /etc/modprobe.d/nvidia-graphics-drivers.conf
This is what I get:
 

al@my_desktop_pc:~$ cat /etc/modprobe.d/nvidia-graphics-drivers.conf
# This file was installed by nvidia-331
# Do not edit this file manually

blacklist nouveau
blacklist lbm-nouveau
blacklist nvidia-173
blacklist nvidia-96
blacklist nvidia-current-updates
blacklist nvidia-173-updates
blacklist nvidia-96-updates
blacklist nvidia-331-updates
alias nvidia nvidia_331
alias nvidia-uvm nvidia_331-uvm
alias nouveau off
alias lbm-nouveau off


/etc/modprobe.d/nvidia-graphics-drivers.conf is just a link to a file in /etc/alternatives/ which, if present, will probably have a different name on your computer as you're using 64-bit.
 
ls -l /etc/modprobe.d/nvidia-graphics-drivers.conf

al@my_desktop_pc:~$ ls -l /etc/modprobe.d/nvidia-graphics-drivers.conf
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 47 Dec 24 10:35 /etc/modprobe.d/nvidia-graphics-drivers.conf -> /etc/alternatives/i386-linux-gnu_nvidia_modconf



#11 pcpunk

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 05:18 PM

 

 

KDE: You really need to give this a shot, it's not about EYE CANDY, it's about being able to customize, manage files etc. that I find KDE to be supreme.  One small and simple aspect is that you can expand the Menu so to not even have to scroll in some sections.  You should run it Live and add the Lancelot Menu, it's incredible, and IS eye-candy, but the way it flows and scrolls etc. is awesome.  And as stated in many many articles, Dolphin File Manager is awesome! AND, it's not green LOL.  So step out of the boring, and into the exciting LOL, just kidding.  You know I am a light user, and am not using all that eye candy, but really, it is more about function than eye-candy.

PC- what is the Lancelot menu? - i never encountered that option- also- you can change the theme in MATE- it doesn't have to be green- blue is my favorite color,and i changed that right away- I did like the KDE desktop interface- but as you said- MATE seemed much more 'organized'- maybe i will run KDE LIVE again,and check it out! So Many Choices!!!

 

Lancelot is the Default Menu in Kubuntu 14.04.2 and can be added in MintKDE by going to the Panel and Right clicking on Panel and Unlock Widgets(if locked,maybe not in LiveMode) then going to the little bubble on the right side of panel and click on Add Widgets then scroll to Lancelot.  It is expandable and has awesome graphics.  The color can be manipulated also which makes it even cooler.  The Menu in Mate as you know cannot be enlarged, at least easily, and when scrolling, on my pc it is a little chattery which makes it hard to follow the software going by.  You will see lot's of little things you can do with the "Bubble" is what I call it.

 

Yes I know you can change the theme in Mate but I could never get it to look the way I wanted easily like in KDE.  Actually I added a theme from the net that was really good but many are buggy and couldn't find it when I lost that install.  Then, I would change one aspect of the graphics, and that would make something else look different?  Another issue was Compiz, I think KDE uses Kwin, which is much better for my machine.  In general it's just to plain Jane for me and needed to move on to something more interesting to me.  I'll never be able to use all that it has to offer but it is fun trying.  I understand why cat likes Mate especially with multiple installs, that would make it much easier to keep up with.  I only have one good pc so I want to be able to manipulate and customize it as much as possible without changing files and such.  


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#12 pcpunk

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 05:28 PM

With my limited experience I can't see much difference between the two.  The only thing I have seen/read is that there are a few things different with the software included.  Other than that I think it is just the way it looks and being heavier on graphics.  I'm sure cat1092 that you know more than most just from what you have read about it. 


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#13 paul88ks

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 06:25 PM

I will check that out- I still have Kubuntu installed on a testbed partition. I like Kubuntu,although it seems to take forever to load.Not sure what graphics card i have - will have to run Speccky to jar my memory. Also -Compiz is fully supported in Mate from the get go!



#14 cat1092

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 03:31 AM

 

 

Do you get any output from:

 

I believe mine is the same as yours, Al, other than the driver version. 

 

 

cat@cat-XPS-8700 ~ $ cat /etc/modprobe.d/nvidia-graphics-drivers.conf

# This file was installed by nvidia-352
# Do not edit this file manually
 
blacklist nouveau
blacklist lbm-nouveau
blacklist nvidia-173
blacklist nvidia-96
blacklist nvidia-current-updates
blacklist nvidia-173-updates
blacklist nvidia-96-updates
blacklist nvidia-352-updates
alias nvidia nvidia_352
alias nvidia-uvm nvidia_352-uvm
alias nouveau off
alias lbm-nouveau offcat@cat-XPS-8700 ~ $ 
 

 

Thanks for showing me how to get to this.  :thumbup2:

 

I have one more question as it relates to this install, though to keep it in line with the Topic I created on the NVIDIA card install, which will assist others, I placed it there instead. That's what I felt to be the rightful this to do, as other LInux users than myself will run into the same issue. Post #48 of the Topic, the last at this time. 

 

http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/573401/nvidia-graphics-issue-new-gpu-install/page-4

 

Please post any answers to this question in that Topic. :)

 

Cat


Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 


#15 macbeton

macbeton

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 03:49 AM

On Linux you can install both of those desktops and compare.






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