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Building a new PC


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#1 john1816

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 08:47 AM

Hi all

 

Before i start with my planned specs for my new pc, here's some background info as to how i got so far in pc building:

 

It would be my second time to try to build a PC from scratch, though i already have some intermediate level/degree of knowledge in building one through research as well as hands-on experience but only as far as assembling the motherboard, cpu, graphics card, ram all together and got it into the case with the standoffs by myself (half-way there!). I ran into some compatibility issue with the bios and cpu and now after things got settled, i need guidance in checking that every component is compatible with the system i'm planning to build just to make sure. As such, i have no actual hands-on experience with the succeeding steps.  I was aiming for the mobo to at least successfully post but due to the said issue, i could not proceed further. I decided to use what components that i have bought from my first attempt so i don't need to completely start from scratch which i already have (indicated below in the planned specs). 

 

My first attempt was to build a high-end PC but i decided that, i wouldn't be into much into overclocking at all so i would downgrade to an intermediate level PC (that can run games - don't need it to be with high end graphics settings and able to do some rendering). 

 

I usually start with Case, PSU and motherboard in choosing components, as they usually influence/constrain a lot of other choices in building PCs but in this case, picking the motherboard is a priority for me since i have some components on hand. 

 

Also limited to the available components in my region but as always, i'm open to any suggestions you might have. 

 

Planned Specs: MSI B85M Gaming

 

Motherboard Choices: Stuck between MSI B85M-P33, B85M Gaming, H87M-G43 (Any other mobo suggestions model/brand is ok) All 3 mobos are BIOS-compatible with the i7 4570 CPU as the MSI site suggests (without having to update the BIOS), but only B85M Gaming is also compatible with the i7 4590 BIOS-wise on default release. 

 

Any advice in what chipset i should go for? What's the advantage of these new chipsets over the other?

 

  • (Preferred brand: MSI, My desktop computer has been running for 5 years straight with no problems, no BSODs whatsoever, not even a reformat - but its getting slightly sluggish, of course over time. I had bad experience with my ASUS motherboard before as my first custom-built desktop PC, so i am a bit afraid to try).   

Case: NZXT Switch 810 (On hand, its very heavy) but I'm planning to sell it/trade it with NZXT H440 (Mid-Tower case) mainly for more mobility and weight reduction or I can opt to use it instead for awhile. Most of the cases offered in my area are Aerocool Strike-X One, XPredator, RS-9, etc. 

 

  • Looking for: Removable motherboard tray, dust filters, (Preferably) Tool-less screws, enough mounting holes for the mobo, fits mobo and PSU, preferably doesn't weigh more than 6kg (without other components) and the PSU is mounted at the bottom of the case. Enough ventilation fans. Some LEDs at the back of the case would prove handy in the dark. Won't go for liquid cooling. 

PSU: Thermaltake 875W (On hand).

 

  • My PSU is too overkill i know - it was intended for my first attempt, but i didn't go cheap on it as others advised because of the needed high-standard quality. Single 12V rail, 80+ Bronze, 24 Pin power connector (Most modern mobos use it), 1x EPS 12V Connector (8 Pin), 1x EPS/ATX 12V Connector (4+4 Pin), 6x Peripheral Connector (4 pin), 1x FDD Connector (4 pin) 6x SATA connector (5 pin), 1x PCI-E Connector (6+2 pin), 1x PCI-E Connector (6 pin). Has Japanese capacitors, Active PFC, SLI-Certified, continuous wattage rating and its Modular too. Maybe it'll last a good 5 years or more (as i get more demanding components in the future). It already has the necessary cables that I would possibly need and allows for upgrade in the future (i.e. More powerful Graphics card). My current PSU's been running 8 years without failure.  

 

 

CPU/Processor: Intel i5-4570 (has more BIOS-compatible for MSI motherboards mentioned above) or i5-4590

 

  • Looking for: An Intel 64-bit processor (Instruction set: 64-bit), 4 cores, 3.2 and above Ghz clock speed, LGA 1150, Supports DDR3/DDR3L 1333/1600 memory at 1.5V, Compatible with the BIOS version (default v1.0) of the motherboard, doesn't exceed TDP rating of motherboard, version/stepping supported by motherboard. 

 

CPU Cooler: Deep Cool Iceblade Pro v2.0

  • Any LGA 1150 CPU fan will do, I haven't tried fanless ones and not sure if they're good/safe. Won't go for liquid cooling. 

 

RAM: 2x Kingston HyperX 8GB DDR3-1600. Model no: KHX1600C10D3B1/8G 

  • As far as i know, Timing, Voltage and Frequency just need to be the same with the other RAMs listed in the supported memory list of the motherboard (from manufacturer's website) and as well as the CPU's memory support list? Correct me if i'm mistaken.

Graphics Card: Nvidia GT-440 (On-hand and currently in-use) 

  • Looking for: A graphics card with an HDMI and DVI port (since i use 2 monitors) and can play most modern video games with compatibility. 

 

Optical Disk Drive (ODD): 1x DVD RW Drive (Are CD ODDs are obsolete these days?) I have 1x DVD drive currently on-hand and in use but its old, takes a few button presses just for the tray to come out.

 

  • Need at least 1x DVD RW drive (RWs have ROM capability) to read retail discs, install Windows 7, etc. May opt to go for a Blu-ray RW drive in the future but it doesn't seem to be mainstream yet unlike DVDs. 

 

Hard Disk Drive (HDD): 1x Seagate 1TB 3.5" SATA 32MB Cache HDD (On hand), I also have another 500GB Sata drive currently in use in my current desktop PC.  

 

AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulator), ~ My area tends to experience power fluctuations. I can go with UPS but at a later time just to save on budget: 1,000W AVR

 

Operating System: Windows 7 64-bit

 

Cooler master Power consumption: 275W. But i could opt to go SLI in the future given the overkill PSU that i have, the opportunity (mobo, processor), etc. 

 

Anything i missed out as well or errors in my understanding? (Compatibility, details, etc.) please let me know :)


Edited by john1816, 27 May 2015 - 08:02 AM.


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#2 Kilroy

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 01:23 PM

PC Part Picker is a decent place to help ensure you don't have compatibility issues.  My normal build process is:

 

  1. Pick CPU

  2. Pick Motherboard that works with CPU and has the features I want

  3. Go to Crucial.com to find the RAM that works with my selected motherboard

  4. Pick a video card that works in the slots on my motherboard (part of the features check if I wanted a specific video card)

  5. Select a power supply that will drive all of the hardware I want to put in the machine with room to spare.



#3 john1816

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 04:17 AM

Thanks for the response, the PC Part picker website sure is useful but i'm getting a RAM compatibility issue with my chosen CPU (intel i7 4570) (I picked the closest RAM in the list as i could get, but my ram is actually 8GB per stick. Link to actual RAM Manual below):

 

It gives me a voltage issue compatibility: 

 

  • The Kingston HyperX Blu 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-1600 Memory operating voltage of 1.65V exceeds the Intel Haswell CPU recommended maximum of 1.5V+5% (1.575V). This memory module may run at a reduced clock rate to meet the 1.5V voltage recommendation, or may require running at a voltage greater than the Intel recommended maximum.

     

     

 

But i don't see that it runs anywhere at 1.65V given this page, which shows the exact same memory I

use: http://www.kingston.com/datasheets/KHX1600C10D3b1_8G.pdf So there may be a discrepancy with the website? 

 

Link to intel i7 also shows that it supports only DDR3/DD3L 1333/1600 RAM running at 1.5V

http://ark.intel.com/products/75043/Intel-Core-i5-4570-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_60-GHz

 

On the other hand, Crucial.com doesn't have the RAM that i have listed on their website. 

 

No other compatibility issues were reported. 


Edited by john1816, 27 May 2015 - 04:19 AM.


#4 Rocky Bennett

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 05:40 AM

I am running Kingston HyperX with my Haswell. I have had no problems at all. My motherboard is an Asus which has made the necessary voltage adjustments. If you need specifics, I can dig them out, but my CPU is an i5 4690 and I have 2 x 8gb HyperX. It runs very well. If that is not an option for you, then just change brands of memory.


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#5 john1816

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 05:55 AM

Hmm. ok. So after inquiring about stock availability of CPUs in my region, I'm only left with an option to get an i5 4460 (there doesn't seem to be any stock of i5 4570, most stores in my region don't have) and narrowing down the motherboard choice, I'm going for MSI B85M-Gaming (which also has in stock). 

 

I checked if the i5 4460's BIOS-cpu compatibility with the B85-M Gaming mobo and it seems to be compatible with the BIOS (assuming that the base bios version is at 7823vA0 in this list: http://www.msi.com/support/mb/B85M-GAMING.html#support-cpu) so I would avoid having to flash and risk bricking my mobo. 

 

I'm not as keen in comparing processors but I just want to compare if its ever available and get ideas as to how to compare processors. Is the performance/price ratio of an i5 4570 higher than i5 4460? (Layman's terms: Am i getting more bang for buck/big improvement if i go for an i5 4570 instead of an i5 4460?)



#6 Rocky Bennett

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 09:49 AM

http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i5-4570-vs-Intel-Core-i5-4460


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#7 john1816

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 10:09 AM

Ok thanks. I got one more issue though with regards to the power supply. 

 

With regards to high wattage but low power consumption, i know it would be inefficient. Will my components be damaged over time due to the "excess heat" that higher wattage PSUs tend to generate? I've looked into it and see some debate about it (electricity cost, etc.) but as far as i know, enough power is supplied to the components as needed (i.e. Higher wattage PSU won't deliver excess power to the components. I'm not sure what "excess heat" some people are pertaining to in this case, maybe other than the general trend/likelihood that higher wattage PSUs do generate more heat. Do they assume that the PSU delivers its full wattage rating?). Some say no harm's done but may not prolong the PSU's life if it isn't at the optimal load. 

 

Or is it necessary to downgrade and buy a lower wattage one given my current setup and could stow this one away for later use? (Am planning to also upgrade in the future, maybe 1-2 years from now). 


Edited by john1816, 27 May 2015 - 10:13 AM.


#8 Rocky Bennett

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 10:14 AM

You have to make sure to get a Haswell compatible PSU;

 

http://techreport.com/review/24897/the-big-haswell-psu-compatibility-list


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#9 john1816

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 10:28 AM

Thanks for the warning. 

 

Ok, the site says that:

 

Thermaltake
According to Thermaltake's compatibility announcement, "most high-end power supplies of Thermaltake are fully compatible with Haswell CPUs." The compatible units are as follows:

 

 

Doesn't list my on-hand 875W but most high-end seem to be. My PSU only has a single 12V rail, not sure what metric are they using to determine if a PSU is compatible or not (which would be useful). I might go for the i5 4460 which is a "Haswell Refresh", unfamiliar and still have to dig in some details. Maybe that sleep state can be disabled via BIOS, but i have yet to figure it out. 

 

Edit: Hmm it can be disabled: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUPL3n28qs8. 


Edited by john1816, 27 May 2015 - 10:38 AM.


#10 DeimosChaos

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 10:32 AM

Ok thanks. I got one more issue though with regards to the power supply. 

 

With regards to high wattage but low power consumption, i know it would be inefficient. Will my components be damaged over time due to the "excess heat" that higher wattage PSUs tend to generate? I've looked into it and see some debate about it (electricity cost, etc.) but as far as i know, enough power is supplied to the components as needed (i.e. Higher wattage PSU won't deliver excess power to the components. I'm not sure what "excess heat" some people are pertaining to in this case, maybe other than the general trend/likelihood that higher wattage PSUs do generate more heat. Do they assume that the PSU delivers its full wattage rating?). Some say no harm's done but may not prolong the PSU's life if it isn't at the optimal load. 

 

Or is it necessary to downgrade and buy a lower wattage one given my current setup and could stow this one away for later use? (Am planning to also upgrade in the future, maybe 1-2 years from now). 

 

If you have more wattage then needed for your system, your system will only draw what it needs. This is actually good for a couple reasons. One is that it allows for head room for upgrades. A couple years down the road you might want a larger GPU that is going to need a higher wattage PSU, or you might add things that will require more wattage. The other good thing about getting a higher wattage PSU then needed is that it can last a bit longer than one that is right at the minimum required for your system. Drawing the max or close to the max amount of wattage from a PSU constantly can degrade the PSU a lot quicker than one that isn't drawing near its max wattage on a consistent basis.

Hopefully that makes sense and helps you out. I personally have a 750W PSU and probably only draw something like 600 or a bit less. I would assume that the higher the wattage the more heat it will generate... but I doubt it is a big difference between a couple hundred watts to make much of a difference.


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#11 Rocky Bennett

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 10:38 AM

Thanks for the warning. 

 

Ok, the site says that:

 

Thermaltake
According to Thermaltake's compatibility announcement, "most high-end power supplies of Thermaltake are fully compatible with Haswell CPUs." The compatible units are as follows:

 

 

Doesn't list my on-hand 875W but most high-end seem to be. My PSU only has a single 12V rail, not sure what metric are they using to determine if a PSU is compatible or not (which would be useful). I might go for the i5 4460 which is a "Haswell Refresh", unfamiliar and still have to dig in some details. Maybe that sleep state can be disabled via BIOS, but i have yet to figure it out. 

 

 

 

A Haswell CPU draws current even when the system is asleep. A Haswell compatible PSU has to be able to create a trickle current at all times, even when the system is sound asleep with no fans on.


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#12 Rocky Bennett

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 10:40 AM

Yes, I have a 700 watt PSU and I use about 200 watts max. I like it that way.


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#13 john1816

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 10:48 AM

 

 

 I would assume that the higher the wattage the more heat it will generate... but I doubt it is a big difference between a couple hundred watts to make much of a difference.

I agree too  :lmao: , was asking around and got another answer: https://ph.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20150527050226AAyvtHi

But anyways, yes. I'd rather use my on-hand PSU. 

 

Back to Haswell-PSU compatibility, the sleep state could be disabled so it wouldn't cause any more issues with the PSU? 



#14 Rocky Bennett

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 10:53 AM

You wouldn't want the sleep state disabled if you run Windows because Microsoft likes you to keep your system running at all times. With the sleep state disabled this would generate a LOT of heat and cost a LOT of money in your electric bill. If you are running Linux then this is a moot point because you can shut your computer off when ever you want.


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#15 Rocky Bennett

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 12:02 PM

I just did some Google searches regarding disabling the sleep state and this is definitely a bad idea. It will keep your PSU running at max. output 24/7, as well as all of the other components. It will create massive amounts of heat and cut down on the life expectancy of all of your computer parts, especially the PSU. Better to just buy a Haswell compatible PSU.


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