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Random Crashes with no error message.


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#1 StintedVisions

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Posted 24 May 2015 - 02:25 PM

I took a look around at another post that was similar to mine (ish, because of course no two problems are ever exactly alike), but I did see a post about how to post system information and what not so let me do that...

 

Anyway, I've been having this issue for a while where my computer will crash, and it's been happening a lot more frequently, sometimes my computer will make it as far as the blank black start up page with the curser in the top left of the screen and just stop, sometimes it will be at the bios flash screen or the windows flash screen... sometimes it'll make it all the way through start up to crash later either playing a video game watching a show or even if the computer is idle and hasn't been used yet, just turned on.  I just recently moved and the truck had a bit of a tumble in the back where the pc was so I'm going to check for any loose connections or something but the crashes have been happening since before the move.  Not sure what else there is for me to try other than that. Thoughts?

 

Edit: Ah yea, like the other guy if I am playing a video game and it crashes whatever sound that game was playing will stick in a loop, not sure if that's just due to the crash or if it's relevent but I thought I'd add it.

 

Spoiler


Edited by StintedVisions, 25 May 2015 - 08:05 AM.


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#2 usasma

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Posted 24 May 2015 - 03:40 PM

Nice reports - they contain a lot of good info.

Most relevant (IMO) is the description of the problem that you gave and the Application Errors

They seem to point at video problems.

 

For starters, try this stuff (this isn't the exact problem that you're having - but the steps in it are the same as I'd suggest for your video issues):  Please follow these troubleshooting suggestions:  http://www.sysnative.com/forums/bsod-kernel-dump-analysis-debugging-information/35-video-tdr-timeout-0x116-0x117.html#post29532
Also, please monitor your temps with this free utility:  http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

 

Should this not fix the problem, please provide this information (even though you're not having BSOD problems):   http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/576314/blue-screen-of-death-bsod-posting-instructions-windows-10-81-8-7-vista/

 

While waiting for a reply, please run these free hardware diagnostics:  http://www.carrona.org/hwdiag.html


 


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#3 StintedVisions

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 08:48 AM

Ok... figured out spoilers so that's how I'll be giving all of my info from now on except what I type obviously.  Alright, so what is to follow is monitored voltages, and temps for my system.  I'm running out for a memory stick so I can run a boot up memtest to see if something is wonky there (currently still packed awaiting tenents to move out so I can move into my house.  So I'm not sure where mine even is). 

 

Resting Benchmark voltages/temps

Spoiler

 

1080 GPU Benchmark

Spoiler

 

720 GPU Benchmark

Spoiler

 

GPU Stress Test Monitor

Spoiler


#4 usasma

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 04:33 AM

Please note your GPU temps (79ºC).  Not overly hot for a GPU, but still pretty hot.

Gotta wonder if it has gotten even hotter (which would cause random shutdowns.

But this isn't likely to be the cause when booting up from a "cold" state.

 

Can you try another video card?  Can you try reseating the current card?

I'll need these reports for further troubleshooting (even though you're not seeing BSOD's):      http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/576314/blue-screen-of-death-bsod-posting-instructions-windows-10-81-8-7-vista/


Edited by usasma, 26 May 2015 - 04:53 AM.

My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#5 StintedVisions

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 04:14 PM

I did notice the GPU temp getting up to 79 but it seemed to stay steady there and peaked off after getting up to that temp and ran that way for about 20 minutes before I shut the test down. 

 

Also, I ran the memtest last night with 4 passes and no errors.  I did notice that one of them said to maybe try checking each individual RAM stick but is that really necessary?
And, if I may ask (not to be rude just for my info.) why do you guys think it's the GPU, even though I have crashes at start up and when the computer has just been turned on and only idles? 

I'll get you that info after I wash work off of me.



#6 StintedVisions

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 04:55 PM

So how do I get you these files anyway?



#7 usasma

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 06:34 AM

Temps are a relative thing.  As most people only run the test once, it often isn't representative.

It's actually best to watch the temps whan running a highly intensive game (in order to stress the video).

You can also run Prime95 - but that stresses the RAM and CPU - not the video.

 

If you've run MemTest for 4 passes, then there's probably not a problem.
Some people will advise 7 passes.  I advise 3.  My thought here is if the problem is severe enough to bother you, then the problem (if it's RAM) should pop up fairly quickly.

Just FYI - I left MemTest running on a system at work over the weekend - and it generated 1 error over the 60+ hours.  Probably not a significant memory problem - and could have been just a glitch in one of the passes.

 

As for suspecting the video - the video is involved in everything that you see, so it can be a suspect merely because of that (more on this later)

Video drivers work differently than other drivers in the Kernel and the NT Executive.
They basically take care of things on their own rather than having the various managers, the kernel, and the HAL taking care of it's operations.

Also, the video hardware is involved in everything from the moment the system is turned on - so a hardware problem there could cause problems at startup and while in use.  This is a bit of a reach, but its still possible.

Here's a scenario:

 

Suppose the video card has a broken trace (one of the little lines of solder on the card).

If the card heats up enough, the trace may bend (and lose contact) due to the heat.

If the break in the trace is jagged, it may take a lot of heat to break it free.

But once it's free it may only take a little heat to cause it to bend and lose contact.

 

Depending on how it bends when heating up and when cooling down, it may fall back into it's usual location and repeat the cycle over and over again.

 

 

In your particular case, you've mentioned several video issues that caused me to questions video issues.

Also, the MiniToolBox by Farbar also shows a lot of nVidia entries in the Application logfile.

 

Finally, even if it isn't video that causes the problems at startup - if we eliminate the video problems up front, then we'll have less to fiddle with while trying to fix the other issues.

I often request the following file to check for patterns in the errors.  If it's filled with nVidia errors it makes it much more difficult to spot a pattern.

 

Please do the following:
- open Event Viewer (run eventvwr.msc from the "Run" dialog)
- expand the Custom Views category (left click on the > next to the words "Custom Views")
- right click on Administrative Events
- select "Save all Events in Custom View as..."
- save the file as Admin.evtx
- zip up the file (right click on it, select "Send to", select "Compressed (zipped) folder")
- upload it with your next post (if it's too big, then upload it to a free file-hosting service and post a link here).

FYI - If we're looking for Event ID 41 errors (unexplained shutdowns), there's more info on that here:  http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2028504

While waiting for a reply, please monitor your temps with this free utility:  http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

 

BSOD troubleshooting (and other errors that send people to the BSOD forums) are generally a percentage game.
We fix the most likely things and then work our way down the list of possible things that could be wrong.

The "art" lies in deciding what tests/reports that we need - and what the symptoms look like to us.

You'll note that I say "probably" "most likely" etc, a lot.  That's because there's rarely a 100% sure answer.

Another scenario:

 

I was working on a desktop computer with an add-on video card.  It came from the factory this way.
The system kept shutting down.

I ran the HWMonitor software to see the temps - and all was well.

FIRST POINT:  HWMonitor doesn't measure all temps in the system - it just polls the sensors that are there.

 

So, the next step was to feel around inside the case to see if anything else was getting hot.

As the video card sensor didn't report overheating, I saw no reason to be cautious about it.

I unplugged the system from the wall, grounded myself and started to poke around in the case.

I grabbed the video card and immediately felt heat and pain!!!  I got second degree burns on my fingers!

I got my IR thermometery out and found that the video card was about 100ºC (the temperature of boiling water).

It turns out that the sensor wasn't working properly.

SECOND POINT:  Diagnostics are software tests of hardware components.  So any software test can be incorrect and must (IMO) be backed up by further hardware testing (most often by replacing the component in question).

I replaced the video card, ran some stress tests (without any problems) and had the customer come and get their system.

 

Finally, IMO there just isn't anything that's "random" when it comes to computer errors.  I believe that the seemingly random errors are just errors that we haven't found the pattern for yet.

 

 

As for how to get the files to us - once you generate the reqports and information requested, just start another post.  If using the reply option at the bottom of the page, click on "More Reply Options" in the lower right corner and it'll take you to a page where you can attach files.  Some file types are not allowed - so be sure to zip up the files.

 

In the unlikely event that you can't make the "Attach Files" thing work for you, then simply upload the files to a free-filehosting service (like OneDrive or Dropbox), share them, and post a link to them here.


Edited by usasma, 27 May 2015 - 06:48 AM.

My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#8 StintedVisions

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 07:23 AM

Attached are the three files you both asked for, naming should be self explanatory. 

 

Thank you for all the information it was very helpful.  I will be investigating monitoring my system temps more closely even while in-game. 

 

As for the quote below, could this still be a possibility even if the computer isn't itself shutting down?  I have to manually restart the computer, which results in the computer not shutting down properly because a lot of the time I have no other options to shut down the computer properly unless there's something I don't know about. 

 

FYI - If we're looking for Event ID 41 errors (unexplained shutdowns), there's more info on that here:  http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2028504

 

Thank you for all the help.

 

Edit: Also, could it have been a GPU driver issue?  I just updated my graphics driver yesterday also (came out 5/18/15)?

Edit edit: Not the driver, just crashed on my on the windows icon flash screen.

Attached Files


Edited by StintedVisions, 27 May 2015 - 06:16 PM.


#9 usasma

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Posted 28 May 2015 - 06:10 AM

I included the Event ID 41 statement for your information.

Event ID 41 can be caused by BSOD's, by your pressing the power button to shut the computer off, or from other things that cause the system to shut down unexpectedly.

Think of it as being a statement that Windows was surprised.  It takes an analysis of the circumstances to figure out why it shut down.

 

BIOS dates from 2009.  If you can update it through Windows - go ahead and do it.  If you have to boot from a disk to update it, hold off for now.

 

The memory dump is a STOP 0x124 error.  More info on it here:  http://www.carrona.org/bsodindx.html#0x00000124

This error is most often a hardware problem, but it can also be due to low level drivers or even malware.

Here's my canned speech about this:

 

They are usually caused by one of these things (the list is not in any sort of order):
- borked (broken) hardware (several different procedures used to isolate the problem device)
- BIOS issues (check for updates at the motherboard manufacturer's website)
- overclocking/overheating - You'll know if you're overclocking or not. If uncertain we can suggest things to check.
- dirt/dust/hair/fur/crud inside the case.  Blow out the case/vents with canned air (DO NOT use an air compressor or vacuum as they can cause damage to the system)
- missing Windows Updates
- compatibility issues (3rd party hardware/drivers), older systems, or even pirated systems
- low-level driver problems
- or even malware (scanned for when we ask for hardware diagnostics from http://www.carrona.org/initdiag.html or http://www.carrona.org/hwdiag.html ).

Please get a head start on the hardware diagnostics - they are located here:  http://www.carrona.org/hwdiag.html

 

As this is a STOP 0x124 error, please get started on the hardware diagnostics:  http://www.carrona.org/hwdiag.html

Let us know the results and we'll move on from there.

 

Please update these older drivers. Links are included to assist in looking up the source of the drivers. If unable to find an update, please remove (un-install) the program responsible for that driver. DO NOT manually delete/rename the driver as it may make the system unbootable! :

jraid.sys      Fri Jun 26 03:13:37 2009 (4A447521)
JMicron RAID Driver}http://www.jmicron.com/Driver.htm[br]ftp://driver.jmicron.com.tw/SATA_Controller/Windows/
http://www.carrona.org/drivers/driver.php?id=jraid.sys
 


Analysis:

The following is for informational purposes only.
**************************Tue May  5 17:19:38.036 2015 (UTC - 4:00)**************************
Loading Dump File [C:\Users\John\SysnativeBSODApps\050515-26629-01.dmp]
 
Windows 7 Kernel Version 7601 (Service Pack 1) MP (8 procs) Free x64
 
Built by: 7601.18798.amd64fre.win7sp1_gdr.150316-1654
 
System Uptime:0 days 0:00:08.176
 
Probably caused by :GenuineIntel
 
BugCheck 124, {0, fffffa8006850668, 0, 0}
BugCheck Info: WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR (124)
 
Arguments:
Arg1: 0000000000000000, Machine Check Exception
Arg2: fffffa8006850668, Address of the WHEA_ERROR_RECORD structure.
Arg3: 0000000000000000, High order 32-bits of the MCi_STATUS value.
Arg4: 0000000000000000, Low order 32-bits of the MCi_STATUS value.
BUGCHECK_STR:  0x124_GenuineIntel
 
PROCESS_NAME:  System
 
FAILURE_BUCKET_ID: X64_0x124_GenuineIntel_PROCESSOR_MAE_PRV
 
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨``

 


3rd Party Drivers:
The following is for information purposes only.
Any drivers in RED should be updated or removed from your system. And should have been discussed in the body of my post.

**************************Tue May  5 17:19:38.036 2015 (UTC - 4:00)**************************
jraid.sys      Fri Jun 26 03:13:37 2009 (4A447521)
amdxata.sys    Fri Mar 19 12:18:18 2010 (4BA3A3CA)
cm_km_w.sys    Thu Dec 20 11:47:26 2012 (50D3411E)
kl1.sys        Mon Mar 31 03:46:43 2014 (53391D63)

 

http://www.carrona.org/drivers/driver.php?id=jraid.sys
http://www.carrona.org/drivers/driver.php?id=amdxata.sys
http://www.carrona.org/drivers/driver.php?id=cm_km_w.sys
http://www.carrona.org/drivers/driver.php?id=kl1.sys
 


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#10 usasma

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Posted 28 May 2015 - 06:25 AM

Looking at the Admin.evtx log, I tend to wonder about the outdated storage driver.  The errors in the log (VDS Basic Provider) are sometimes associated with storage drivers that don't have the Location paths property.

Also noted are the repeated instances of crash dumps failing to initialize - and that tends to be suggestive of the hard drive or storage controllers.

I'd strongly recommend updating the JMicron drivers to the latest, Win7 compatible version.

You'll also be running hard drive diagnostics when you start the hardware diagnostics - so that should help to rule out/in the hard drive.

 

Other errors point to the video, so updating the video drivers and trying another card are the 2 troubleshooting techniques that I'd try there.

 

FYI - the Critical errors (Event ID 41) all appear to happen after crash dump initialization fails.
At that point the system either rebooted itself - or you held down the power button to restart it.

As there are no significant entries just before the Critical errors - this is most likely a hardware problem.

 

Crash dump initialization is a very complicated process.

I don't bother to troubleshoot it as there's little to do that's not done in the normal BSOD troubleshooting process.

Here's a link to a draft about the process:  http://www.carrona.org/dumpgen.html


Edited by usasma, 28 May 2015 - 06:27 AM.

My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#11 StintedVisions

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Posted 01 June 2015 - 10:41 AM

Sorry for the late reply, I've been incredibly lazy the last few days. 

 

Anyway, I updated the JMIcron RAID driver, and downloaded the .ROM to update the BIOS but I can't seem to figure out how to update the BIOS when I'm in the BIOS. 

 

I've had a crash recently after doing that, but it seems to happen less frequently.  The video card is about 3 years old so it might be time to upgrade?  I also was having trouble getting the CPU fan mounted properly on the CPU in the past, recently I've upgraded to a much more fancier fan then the stock one that came with it. However, I haven't done anything with the CPU itself.  Do you think that it could be playing a part in the issues I've been having? 

 

Also to clarify when you spoke about seeing the errors that had come from me holding down the power button, that was what I was doing, because CTRL+ALT+DLT doesn't do anything and it's the only other way I know how to get the computer to restart. 

 

Let me get a run on those hardware diag. and post again later. 

 

Edit: Also, a lot of my parts are from overseas, I was in the Navy and was stationed in Japan when I built the computer so the motherboard, PSU (I did by a U.S. power cable that fit my PSU so the machine would be grounded), CPU, and hard drives all came from JAPAN, actually I think I might have gotten a SSD when I was in China I think.  so nailing down the make and model from some of the drives are difficult for me, do you have any suggestions? 


Edited by StintedVisions, 01 June 2015 - 10:47 AM.


#12 usasma

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 07:44 AM

AFAIK, there's no real good tests for SSD's

As for hard drives, start with the Seagate Seatools (if the bootable one doesn't work, then try the one for Windows)

 

If the BIOS update can't run inside of Windows, don't mess with it for now.

 

Other than that, we wait for the next BSOD.
Good luck!


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.




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