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M.S. Partitioning Strong Arm


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#1 pcpunk

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Posted 18 May 2015 - 03:11 AM

I looked for a Thread that I was suggesting this tactic when I was having issues installing Mint on my old Acer Aspire, but could not find it so posting it here.  Thanks to cat1092 and others for this site, it is quite a good read.  This one talks about how OEM's use partitioning schemes to block you out from installing Linux, and quite effectively I might add.  Perhaps a bit of a Conspiracy I don't know, but it sure makes it harder to install Linux and could cause damage to your system.  Even a simple Partition Block can make it hard for a noob to install a linux system as in the one that I did with my Acer.  With mine, it was mostly a lack of Drive space that they might have done it this way, but, they could have made it easier still.  

 

What they do...is put a small Partition at the End of the Drive Space so that one has to re-size a partition in the middle of the drive to gain space.  Then you would have to Move the small partition at the end back to the Beginning of Drive space so that Linux could have some free space at the End to use.  Most of you know this but I found it very interesting and learned some stuff.   

 

http://www.freeyourselffrommicrosoftandthensa.org/06-dual-boot/6-1-protect-yourself-from-windows-booby-traps


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#2 NickAu

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Posted 18 May 2015 - 03:26 AM

 

When you should not dual boot
There are a few circumstances when dual booting is not a good idea. The most common problem is if you have an older computer with a limited amount of RAM. You may wind up slowing down your computer with a dual boot.

What? That makes no sense.



#3 DeimosChaos

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Posted 18 May 2015 - 11:26 AM

 

 

When you should not dual boot
There are a few circumstances when dual booting is not a good idea. The most common problem is if you have an older computer with a limited amount of RAM. You may wind up slowing down your computer with a dual boot.

What? That makes no sense.

 

 

I need the ROFL emoji...  :hysterical: ... there it is!

 

That doesn't make any sense at all. You aren't running both at the same time!


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#4 Guest_hollowface_*

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Posted 18 May 2015 - 03:11 PM

I get that the partition layout used by Windows on a blank drive is inconvenient for dual-booting from a single drive, but I'm not sure how it's a Linux blocking tactic. The manufacterer built the PC for a specific OS, and installed said OS with recommened settings. Both Windows and many Linux distros have a default partitioning scheme for blank drives that uses the entire drive, and makes it difficult to put another OS after it. In the case of BIOS computers it is particularily uncomfortable because of the 4 primary partition limit on an MBRPT (Master Boot Record Partition Table).

 

Unfortunately many manufacterers provide recovery media, rather than installation media to buyers which makes it more difficult to do a re-install with a non-default partitioning scheme. :(



#5 DeimosChaos

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Posted 18 May 2015 - 05:46 PM

I get that the partition layout used by Windows on a blank drive is inconvenient for dual-booting from a single drive, but I'm not sure how it's a Linux blocking tactic. The manufacterer built the PC for a specific OS, and installed said OS with recommened settings. Both Windows and many Linux distros have a default partitioning scheme for blank drives that uses the entire drive, and makes it difficult to put another OS after it. In the case of BIOS computers it is particularily uncomfortable because of the 4 primary partition limit on an MBRPT (Master Boot Record Partition Table).

 

Unfortunately many manufacterers provide recovery media, rather than installation media to buyers which makes it more difficult to do a re-install with a non-default partitioning scheme. :(

 

I ran into this issue on my Lenovo IdeaPad Y580p. It was such a pain to get Linux installed. I finally got a msata SSD and installed the root partition on there. Makes it much easier.


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#6 pcpunk

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Posted 18 May 2015 - 10:36 PM

 

 

When you should not dual boot
There are a few circumstances when dual booting is not a good idea. The most common problem is if you have an older computer with a limited amount of RAM. You may wind up slowing down your computer with a dual boot.

What? That makes no sense.

 

I thought the same thing here Nick, but I liked the article if not for the conspiracy biased opinion.  It had a good tutorial on how to fix the issue and it seemed very good to me, with all the backing up precautions and all, good site!

 

I do think, Maybe, these Partitioning schemes are designed to make it harder to install another OS but I could very well be wrong.  If the OEM's wanted to make their pc's more versitile to the owner then why wouldn't they put the C:Drive at the end, perhaps someone here could explain?

 

But, why would they care about a small percentage of Linux users and making it easier to dual boot as this would add more work for them.  And perhaps there is a bit of reason for the partitions to be the way they are, specified by the OS OEM.

 

With my Acer, I just deleted those partitions and installed to One C:drive partition.  I lost the functionality of the Recovery Partition but that's what backups are for right.  Had I known, I would have re-sized the C:Drive and moved the End partition to beginning of Free Space.  I was having issues doing this because lack of experience so I just deleted partitions that were giving me headaches lol.  Now I know how to do it properly, at least in theory.

 

I see lot's of people with this issue on the web, and they can't understand why the linux installer won't allow them to install.


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#7 Guest_hollowface_*

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Posted 18 May 2015 - 11:21 PM

It had a good tutorial on how to fix the issue and it seemed very good to me, with all the backing up precautions and all, good site!
- REF: http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/576553/ms-partitioning-strong-arm/

While I don't agree with everything it says, there are several very off statements, I still enjoyed the read; the author certainly keeps it interesting. BTW, thanks for sharing the link. :)

You may wind up slowing down your computer with a dual boot
- REF: http://www.freeyourselffrommicrosoftandthensa.org/06-dual-boot/6-1-protect-yourself-from-windows-booby-traps

When I used to multi-boot (on a single drive) I would organize the partitions on the drive so that the most important OS was first, that way it would get the best access times.

You also want a system where you can do at least monthly backups and preferably even weekly backups.
- REF: http://www.freeyourselffrommicrosoftandthensa.org/06-dual-boot/6-1-protect-yourself-from-windows-booby-traps

Good advice that I really should take. I backup my stuff, but I need to start syncing on a regular schedule rather than once in a blue moon. The last time I went to do a backup I ran into an issue that almost wiped out my entire virtual machine collection (this was yesterday). Oh boy did my heart skip a beat (or ten)! At some point I want to get a additional external drive so I can have another backup, but that won't be anytime soon.
 

#8 paul88ks

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 02:51 AM

I am either grateful that I never encountered Windows 8 or this guy in this article has no idea what he is talking about. 

 

I know I said i would never do it, but my curiosity got the better of me and I upgraded to Win 10 insider Preview.I won't discuss Win 10 here,but it seems if EUFI is automatically installed with Win 8 that it would be the same case with Win10. However,after the upgrade,i did not have 4 partitions created by the Os.Is that because i already am using grub2,with my 7 Linux distros?And- are we talking about pre-installed Windows 8 on a Factory computer? I have always installed my OS's myself with the exception of my first Win'98 Dell.I would strongly suggest that anyone buying a new computer do so without the OS installed.Or better yet,Build your own system,which is what I have done over the last 15 years or so.

 

I do currently have an old HP machine-2008- that i bought on Craigslist for 150 bucks,and the first thing I did when I got it was wipe the hard drive-(VISTA) in case you were wondering.and installed Win7,which I have the OEM DVD I bought from Frys.  I wonder if anyone who is going to try to install Win10 from a DVD -Clean install- will have this problem? 

 

Also guys -rest assured- I backed up everything before i did the upgrade- in case I want to go back to Win 7.I am not sure yet.I have much to discuss about Win10 in another topic!



#9 paul88ks

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 03:02 AM

 http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/paul_allen5/win10.jpg_zps01tgn9vy.png  this is my screenshot after Win10 upgrade-


Edited by paul88ks, 22 May 2015 - 03:03 AM.


#10 paul88ks

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 03:03 AM

win10.jpg_zps01tgn9vy.png


Edited by paul88ks, 22 May 2015 - 03:06 AM.


#11 paul88ks

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 03:07 AM

I will have to look at my grub menu to see which Linux distro is which,but obviously the first 2 are Win 10 and System reserved.



#12 paul88ks

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 03:15 AM

Speccy_zpspfew2vjb.jpg and here is my Speccy!



#13 pcpunk

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 03:20 AM

I know I said i would never do it, but my curiosity got the better of me and I upgraded to Win 10 insider Preview.I won't discuss Win 10 here,but it seems if EUFI is automatically installed with Win 8 that it would be the same case with Win10. 

Do you mean UEFI paul? I don't think this comes with 8 or 10, it is built in to the computer, as like the BIOS.


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#14 paul88ks

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 03:29 AM

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2900536/windows-10s-secure-boot-requirement-could-make-installing-linux-a-big-headache.html  I must have the old style BIOS-but this article has me a little unnerved!



#15 pcpunk

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 03:32 AM

I am either grateful that I never encountered Windows 8 or this guy in this article has no idea what he is talking about. 

 

However,after the upgrade,i did not have 4 partitions created by the Os.  And- are we talking about pre-installed Windows 8 on a Factory computer? I have always installed my OS's myself with the exception of my first Win'98 Dell.I would strongly suggest that anyone buying a new computer do so without the OS installed.Or better yet,Build your own system,which is what I have done over the last 15 years or so.

I think it would be the former lol. I thought the article was very good, but had some issues, though they could be discarded easily and still learn much from it.  It gave a bunch of easy to understand info on how to circumvent this UEFI issue SAFELY.

 

Yes pre-installed windows 8, but like I said I don't think it matters, UEFI is preinstalled onto the pc. not the OS.  And, yes I think we should all build our PC's to make this easier.

 

"However,after the upgrade,i did not have 4 partitions created by the Os. "

Created by what OS, the 10 install?


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