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Studio free to pursue movie pirates: Court


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#1 NickAu

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 08:34 PM

 

Australian internet service providers will be forced to handover the personal details of thousands of customers who could now face letters of demand from a movie studio alleging copyright infringement.

Lawyers for the Australian owners of the rights to the hit movie Dallas Buyers Club have successfully argued in court they should be allowed to personally pursue illegal downloaders.

 

Studio free to pursue movie pirates: Court - Yahoo7

 

I guess this is another nail in the coffin for file sharing.



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#2 noknojon

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 09:11 PM

Australian internet service providers will be forced to handover the personal details of thousands of customers who could now face letters of demand from a movie studio alleging copyright infringement.
 

This was the line that I picked up on. You are guilty without even a trial ??

iiNet is the I.S.P. they are picking on (my I.S.P.) but it is the second biggest provider, with little mention of the bigger one in the news ...

 

There are thousands of online movies out there, so why are they picking on this 2 year old movie ?? ( 2013 movie according to the statement ...)

 

Chase all the music sharers first and the courts would never have time to see my parking ticket .



#3 NickAu

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 09:59 PM

 

You are guilty without even a trial ??

Yes.



#4 Naught McNoone

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 09:47 AM

From the article:

In the US similar orders have led to customers receiving legal letters

alleging they could be liable for payments worth hundreds of thousands of dollars

unless they agree to out of court settlements, sometimes worth close to $10,000

 

My question is, how the copy right holder expects to justify $10k damages from an individual who downloaded the film?

 

Actual damages must be reasonable.  Punitive damages must match the degree of intent.

 

So, if I download a movie, instead of buying the DVD, then what do I owe the copy right holder?  His share of the royalties from a DVD which is already in the bargain bin?  $1?

 

And what amount of profit could I intend to make, by allowing the data to be accessed by another user?  With out intent to profit, punitive damages may be nominal, or non existent.  Such damages are remote, and would not apply.

 

The copy right holder must go after the original source, not the end receiver, if they expect to collect any amount worth more than the cost of the paperwork.

 

I also think that the Justice is well aware of the precedents that could be set by his decision.

 

 . . . Justice Perram stopped short of giving . . . . a license to start billing users whose computers were used to download or distribute their movie. . . .

 . . . the rights holder would be prevented from making the ISPs’ customers details public . . .

. . . . any letters the company sent would first need to come across his desk . . . 

"They are to submit to me a draft of any letter they propose to send to account holders associated with the IP addresses which have been identified," he said.

 

 

Cheers!

 

Naught



#5 NickAu

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 03:12 PM

 

My question is, how the copy right holder expects to justify $10k damages from an individual who downloaded the film?

Easy, If you are prosecuted in court you face a fine of  $50 000 and 5 years in prison, So pay us $10 000 and we wont prosecute you in a court of law.

 

 

The Copyright Act 1968 provides for individuals to be fined up to $50,000 and for corporations to be fined up to $250 000. The possible term of imprisonment is up to five years.

http://www.ipaustralia.gov.au/ip-infringement/counterfeiting-and-piracy/



#6 JohnnyJammer

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 07:22 PM

The only thing that worries me is war driving, i used to do it and downlaod movies from open wifi's and i would feel sad for the people who would get such a fine even though they have no clue as to how they shoudl secure their networks.

This was a few years ago but im sure people still do it today.

 

From what i have read, people can just literally throw this in the rubbish bin because they cannot prove you downloaded the movie, they only have the IP and not the MAC of the machine performing the d/l.

Its a scare tactic that may work on some but not all, also with proxy servers and VPN's they aint going to cath anyone, unless they still allow dns requests that are not encrypted!

 

My personal view is this is all to do with ruper Murdoch as he is a LNP man through and though, he gives hundreds of thousands of $ to the Australian LNp and along with his media outlets owning something like %70 of all media in Australia, he has to protect his interests. This is why Telstra and optuis are not gettign slammed for it because Foxtel own %51 of telstra!.

 

The thing that annoys me most is the new data retention policy, they say its to catch terrorists but anyone witha  brain cell count > 1 would see this as a scheme to catch the metedata from people copying a movie. Remember it is not a crime to copy a mlovie it is only a crime in Australia to distribute a movie.



#7 NickAu

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 03:10 AM

 

Remember it is not a crime to copy a mlovie

Thats right, I have copied kids DVD's for friends, This way the little treasure destroys a copy of Dora the explorer, Or Wiggles DVD and not the original.

 

Downloading movies that you have not paid for is theft. Now I admit I am guilty here to a point, I downloaded a few ( Ok All ) the episodes of Game of Thrones because I could not wait for the DVD ( I do not have pay TV ) However as soon as the series was for sale on DVD I went out and bought it.

 

 

The only thing that worries me is war driving,

What's war driving 2zsp3ep.gif

 

Right now I can pick up 6 WiFi signals and only 1 is " Password" protected and 12345678 is not a password. When not in use by me I turn OFF the wifi on my router.



#8 Naught McNoone

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 11:07 AM

Easy, If you are prosecuted in court you face a fine of  $50 000 and 5 years in prison, So pay us $10 000 and we wont prosecute you in a court of law.

 

 

http://www.ipaustralia.gov.au/ip-infringement/counterfeiting-and-piracy/

 

 

You are applying a criminal matter to a civil case.

 

Big media has taken a civil matter, and made it into something that it is not.

This is not the case of "You copied my work", or "You plagiarized my song".

 

Go back to basics.  The 50k/5yr sentence is the maximum CRIMINAL penalty.

 

The actual sentence will be based on actual intent.

 

If I download a copy of the film, start making copies of it, and selling them openly, then I am criminally guilty of copyright violation.  The profits from that will dictate the amount of fine, and digger time, that I have to do.

 

In the case of a civil matter, without intent to profit, it will be extremely difficult for the copyright holder to get much more than a nominal amount, and a slap on the wrist for the defendant.

 

Tuppance,

 

Naught



#9 Naught McNoone

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 11:12 AM

. . . .I have copied  . . . . Wiggles DVD . . . .

 

 

OK.  The only reason I would copy a Wiggles DVD was because I wanted to run it through the shredder. 

 

 

:smash:

Naught.



#10 noknojon

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 04:55 PM

A quick question for those who may look.

 

The issue is NETFLIX direct / requested streaming to your computer (at a fee), that I assumed were all legal versions.

This is like renting from other Cable TV companies (like FOXTEL), and then I can make a pirated version from there.

 

I see no issue between recording off my TV to DVD or my computer to DVD, except that my computer is actually dearer since I use Download time ........

I record TV programs or movies and watch them later, because this is why they sold me a DVD / Tape recorder.

 

So, sue the guy in the retail outlet for selling these machines .......

 

Too deep for me to figure out EVER ! ! !



#11 NickAu

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 04:58 PM

 

A Perth man who was sued by Dallas Buyers Club LLC has issued a warning to the 28,000 other Australians reportedly in the crosshairs for illegally downloading the movie.

Michio McGrath, a former Hale School student who moved to Denver, Colorado in November 2013, was caught in a three-month US legal battle over alleged piracy of the Oscar-winning movie late last year.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/27038126/i-was-sued-over-dallas-buyers-club/



#12 Naught McNoone

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 09:37 AM

. . . .  NETFLIX . . . .  streaming to your computer . . . . . recording off my TV to . . . . my computer . . . . record TV programs . . . .watch them later . . .

 

 

This defeats the purpose of using Netflix.  Netflix is video on demand.  Unlike cable or satellite services, which have specific broadcast times for content, you can start, stop or pause Netflix any time, and pick up where you left off.

 

The only reason for recording something from Netflix is because it is coming to the end of its licensed broadcast time, and will no longer be available.

 

Netflix video is legitimate, because Netflix pays a royalty fee to the copyright holder in order to allow the videos on their system.

 

Different versions of Netflix will have different content.  For example, Netflix US has about 10x the quantity of available videos than Netflix Canada.  This is because certain American copyright owners will not allow their property to be streamed through Netflix to Canada, even though both countries operate over the same server in California!

 

The reason for that is varied.  Some because a Canadian Distributor already has the rights to the content in Canada.  Others because many American distributors have been told that all video piracy originates in Canada and that Canadians are socialist free loaders who don't want to pay for anything.

 

Incidentally, there are some very good movies available on Canadian Netflix that you cannot see on the US service!

 

Netflix has it's own setup designed to keep you from saving copies of stuff you watch.  That is why for the longest time it would only work on Windows, and not Linux.  Embedded DRM prevented Netflix from playing on anything other than Microsoft Silverlight.  Netflix has now become available to Linux users.  Last time I looked, there was a deb package available through the Ubuntu repository.

 

There are now both software and hardware solutions, that can turn any PC into a PVR.  So the question is mute.  As long as it is for your own personal use, and not for commercial gain, you have not committed a crime.  You may have violated the EUA for the service, but that is a civil matter, not a criminal case.

 

Copyright holder trying to collect on that, good luck!

 

Tuppance, 

 

Naught.



#13 Naught McNoone

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 10:08 AM

 

 

A Perth man who was sued by Dallas Buyers Club LLC has issued a warning to the 28,000 other Australians reportedly in the crosshairs for illegally downloading the movie.

Michio McGrath, a former Hale School student who moved to Denver, Colorado in November 2013, was caught in a three-month US legal battle over alleged piracy of the Oscar-winning movie late last year.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/27038126/i-was-sued-over-dallas-buyers-club/

 

 

I had a hard time finding this article.  It seems to have been removed from Yahoo for some reason.

Can anyone find any specific information on this case?

 

I do note that the fellow was in the US at the time, not Australia.  It was a US case.  

US law is generally at the whim of the big fellow.  

They have been sending bullying letters to US down loaders for quite some time, making all sorts of threats.  

 

The "Pay us 10k in compensation, and we wont sue you" is based on the idea that it will cost you more for a lawyer to defend you in court.  However, if you do go to court, you are most likely to be found owing nothing more that the standard royalty fee for the material. 

 

I did find this:

 

http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/what-to-do-if-you-receive-a-letter-from-dallas-buyers-club-llc/story-fnjwneld-1227295177465

. . . . Director of the Communications Law Centre at Sydney’s University of Technology believes it’s unlikely offenders will be hit with a hefty fine . . . .

 

“As the judge has asked for those letters to be sent to him in draft form, it’s not possible that there will be excessive demands made in that letter like we’ve seen overseas. It might just be a warning, it might be a demand for the price the film,”. . . . The Justice can simply order you to purchase a copy, thereby nullifying your lack of right to posses the video!

 

If you are that worried over having a digital copy of the film on your hdd, then go buy a copy from the bargain bin (where you will find most of these films anyway!)

There you go, you now have a licensed copy, with a digital backup to run on your personal media server in your own home.

 

Tuppance,

 

Naught



#14 NickAu

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 05:48 PM

Here's how I see things.

 

If I go to Blockbuster and rent a DVD and copy it.... That's theft.... If I then distribute that copy to others that's piracy regardless if I make money or not.

 

If I go to a streaming site where they have cam rips of the latest or any movies and watch a movie that's theft, Because the producers are not getting any money from ticket sales that they would normally get from cinemas, If I then distribute that movie to others that's piracy.

 

If I download a movie via a torrent....That's theft.... If I then distribute that copy to others that's piracy regardless if I make money or not.

 

If I buy a movie and copy it for daily use by kids so they don't destroy the original.... as long as I do not distribute or sell the copy it's fine.

 

If I download mp3's from the net without paying.....That's theft.... If I then distribute that copy to others that's piracy regardless if I make money or not. I have about 20 000 mp3's that I have ripped from CD's I own, You cant play a CD on a Iphone and that's fine.

 

Youtube is a grey area unless the music clip is an official release by the artist.

 

Netflix I do not know, but figure it's legal. As long as I do not record the movie and or distribute the copy.

 

 

If you are that worried over having a digital copy of the film on your hdd, then go buy a copy from the bargain bin (where you will find most of these films anyway!)

There you go, you now have a licensed copy, with a digital backup to run on your personal media server in your own home.

 

And IMO that's fine, Because you have legally paid for the original.

 

 

Please note this is just my opinion on what constitutes theft and piracy. I must be one of the minority on the net who pays for stuff.


Edited by NickAu, 10 April 2015 - 05:51 PM.


#15 Guest_hollowface_*

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 01:37 AM


they cannot prove you downloaded the movie, they only have the IP and not the MAC of the machine performing the d/l. Its a scare tactic that may work on some but not all, also with proxy servers and VPN's they aint going to cath anyone, unless they still allow dns requests that are not encrypted!

 

They cannot prove you've downloaded it, but they could in some instances use checksums to prove the file in your possession is identical to one that is being illegally distributed. At the very least proving you're in possession of stolen property, though I suppose depending on what it is you could try pleading "necessity" :P.






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