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virtual machine/box vs separate partition


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#1 heyyou325

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 03:58 PM

What are the differences between a virtual machine/box  and using a separate partition?  I've been thinking about changing my partition table and instead of having 5 root partitions with different distros on, only having 2 or 3.  2 with a virtual machine( Id have to learn how to use one), or 3 without.  Malware, and other problems aren't supposed to be able to go between different partitions, so what would be the main benefits to having a virtual machine?  When I installed Peach (an older and larger version than their the works now) it had virtual box with it.  For a couple months I've been having trouble with updates, and I finally took the time to watch the progress.  No matter if I updated thru the updater program or terminal when the updater got to 
 
     us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool//main/m/mesa/libxatracter2_10.1.3-0ubuntu0.3_i386.deb
 
it would look for headers until I think the internet timed out, and then I'd get a message that I'd lost the internet connection.  Every time I watched.  Sometimes leaving 152kb left, upwards to 40+mb.  This goes to virtual box according to a search online.  I've been meaning to try a virtual machine, but after finding my update problem I'm thinking about deleting virtual box and just using a separate partition.  O, like a dummy I decided since I had it I'd put it with every distro.  They are all stopping there.

Edited by Al1000, 05 February 2017 - 01:30 PM.
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#2 Guest_hollowface_*

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 09:03 PM

What are the differences between a virtual machine/box  and using a separate partition?


A virtual machine is computer composed of software rather than hardware. A partition is a division of a storage device.

Malware, and other problems aren't supposed to be able to go between different partitions, so what would be the main benefits to having a virtual machine?


Malware can get anywhere the user running it can access (including other partitions). In the case of virtual machines you can typically restrict access to the physical machine (eg: no shared folders, no host-guest networking) which will help prevent the spread of malware.
 
Multi-booting is great for operating systems you use alot, and want top performance from. Virtual machines are great for trying out new programs, trying out new operating systems, testing commands, and for running operating systems simultaniously.

Edited by hollowface, 01 March 2015 - 09:03 PM.


#3 paul88ks

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 12:16 AM

I am very interested in this topic- going to be following along and see where it goes- it's slightly related to what i am trying to do- 



#4 czarboom

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 02:19 AM

What are the differences between a virtual machine/box and using a separate partition? 

 

 

Like above software and RAM seems to be the biggest reason / failure of a VM, meaning if it states you need 2GB when setting up your VM, add at least one more GB (some VM guys I know auto default to doubling it.)  So if you need 2GB they will use 4GB as a rule of thumb, but these are server guys who think there is NO SUCH THING AS TOO MUCH RAM.... lol.  This also allows them for seamless upgrades and auto rollover of down servers.  I digress... sorry about that. 

But, VMs tend to be a bit slow vs your hard OS. VMs, are GREAT for sandboxing and testing, and unless you have a good amount of RAM can slow everything down a bit.  But, the upside is if you jack up your VM, just delete it and NO biggie. 

 

Malware, and other problems aren't supposed to be able to go between different partitions, so what would be the main benefits to having a virtual machine?

 

 

Yes Malware can get in between partitions even in Linux?  As a Dr. in Cryptology told us, "unless you know what you are doing the Root user (e.g. SU) can be used you crush the OS, or read email."  I wish I could tell you how, but he wouldn’t give us the details... so make of that what you will.  Not a 100% sure on his statement, but what do I know.  Just some FYI

 

Lastly, if you want you can use Live Versions of Distros that you don’t use every day.  For me I keep my Kail Linux as a Live version.  Either on USB or DVD, and run it when I pen test, but when I don’t need I don’t use it.  I know it’s a small Version and I have to update a lot, but it saves a lot of space.  Or do you have room for a second HDD, or external?  I ran a Win 2008 server that way with very little issues.  Other than updates it was fine.


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#5 NickAu

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 02:58 AM

 

NO SUCH THING AS TOO MUCH RAM

I agree.



#6 czarboom

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 03:04 AM

LOL, me too, the wife on the other hand....


CZARBOOM 
 
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#7 paul88ks

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 03:08 AM

 

 

NO SUCH THING AS TOO MUCH RAM

I agree.

 

Hey Nick- I just got an unexpected bonus from work- so I will be headed to my local computer store tommorow to upgrade my RAM- my system will hold 32 gigs,so I'm gonna be a happy camper tomorrow!



#8 cat1092

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 04:32 AM


 

 

NO SUCH THING AS TOO MUCH RAM

 

I agree with this, two of my VM's using the free VMware Player has 12GB of assigned memory to each, as well as 4 CPU's. No, that's not a typo. I don't have a pic since the last RAM upgrade, where it was at 8GB, but it is 12GB now. 

 

Screenshot-SystemMonitor-5.png

 

Screenshot-8-1.png

 

Before any RAM upgrade, it was equal to what's assigned to my two best VM's now, kind of lacking a bit for a 64 bit guest. First, the stock, then the 1st upgrade to 24GB. The 2nd one is the top pic. 

 

Screenshot-SystemMonitor-1.png

 

Screenshot-SystemMonitor-4.png

 

Screenshot-SystemMonitor-3.png

 

All of my computers are stuffed with the max of RAM, though my others are struggling with VM's with only 8GB RAM available. Maybe some Linux VM's with 2.5GB RAM, but that's it. 8GB RAM is no longer the 'sweet spot' of installed RAM for today's demanding applications. Hopefully 32GB will carry me over until the year 2020. 

 

Now as to the OP's question, if possible, it's always best to install to drive, unless one has a Hyper-V or other VHD boot option where the VM has the full resources of the computer. Being that these are tricky to setup, VirtualBox or better yet, VMware Player for Windows is the best option, as USB devices will have better support with the VMware offering. Both the Windows & Linux options are shown. No bundled junk software included. 

 

https://my.vmware.com/web/vmware/free#desktop_end_user_computing/vmware_player/7_0

 

Hope this information is of some help.  :thumbup2:

 

Cat


Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 


#9 heyyou325

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 10:40 AM

Ok, everyone pretty much agrees, I've got to learn about virtual boxes.  I guess I'll delete the ones I have that are giving me problems with updates and reinstall.  I've been meaning to try to learn (notice I said try) how to use them.  I'm one of those who usually has to be forced to change.  Like xp ending support.  two things that scare me most are learning and change, life was easier in the 50's.



#10 cat1092

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 01:21 AM

Virtual machines aren't that hard to setup & run, the key thing to remember, is your computer capable of running these? 

 

At a bare minimum, and I learned this the hard way, 4GB of RAM is needed. So is a dual core CPU, that runs at over 2GHz, one can be ran on a little less CPU, but the results won't be good. 

 

Yes, deleting the ones that are giving you trouble would be good to do, as you can recreate these if desired. Or before deletion, you can look them over to see what needs changing. 

 

So that we can better advise you as to your options, will you please furnish the basic specs of the computer you're running these VM's on? For example the amount of installed RAM & type, if you know, and CPU specs. These are the key players for running VM's & if too low, we can possibly spare you some trouble. Windows OS's will require the most resources, therefore I don't advise trying to run one when there's only 4GB RAM present, it'll be slow, your CPU will be screaming & a lot of heat will be produced in trying to run one on the bare minimums. 

 

 

 

Hey Nick- I just got an unexpected bonus from work- so I will be headed to my local computer store tommorow to upgrade my RAM- my system will hold 32 gigs,so I'm gonna be a happy camper tomorrow!

 

Sounds like a grand plan to me, hopefully you can find a 32GB, 4 stick set (8GB per stick) for under $250. That costs less than 2 sets of 16GB, and much less than single 8GB sticks, which is not recommended & some brands will say this in their documentation, in a dual channel setup (most popular option), not to be mixing lot numbers in a channel, even if the model is the same. Like if you have 4 slots & you can't get a 32GB kit, then at least get two 16GB kits, and be sure to place each kit in the correct slots. Normally these will be marked for you by the color of the slots. In my case, two are off white, the other two black & they weren't in lined up order. It was like every other slot. This step cannot be overlooked, you may have problems otherwise.

 

The best place to check would be the OEM's site, there should be a section dedicated towards RAM replacement, which should show how to install dual channel RAM. 

 

The type is equally as important, it may be best to run Speccy on your Windows partition & click the RAM tab, and print the specs. What you don't want to do, is purchase the wrong type of RAM, in the worst case, it simply won't boot, like if voltages aren't the same. In some cases, the consumer will be cheating themselves out of performance by not purchasing the max frequency possible (e.g, installing DDR3 1333 RAM in a DDR3 1600 ready MB). 

 

Sometimes, these shops may be loaded up on a lot of a particular type of RAM & pushes it off on those whom doesn't know what to purchase. Or will simply examine an installed stick & not bother to check if it's the best performer for that computer. I cannot begin to count the days when customers were coming back home with PC2-5300 RAM sticks from the shop, when their PC's would take a PC2-6400 upgrade, a significant one, or worse yet, downgrade them to PC2-5300. Many shops loads up on 'safe defaults', and if they're re-installing one's OS at the same time, the customer won't know the difference, and worse, spread the word about how 'honest' they were. 

 

Then when one comes along who knows what's going on, they want to cop an attitude, citing their extensive list of 'satisfied' customers & collective years of tech experience on hand. 

 

That's why I purchase my RAM online, can email my Speccy specs to reps, and get a fast answer in return. GSkill is my choice of RAM, and they answered my contact on Christmas Eve inside of 3 hours, when normally anyone around would be at the office party. To their credit, I wasn't looking for an answer on that day, and was surprised to see it in my inbox. Newegg had it on promo, and that's when I pulled the trigger on my first RAM upgrade on the PC, if I had the funds, would have purchased both sets that day. The next set was purchased a month later. 

 

Kind of surprisingly, while I noticed an instant increase in performance with the first upgrade kit, moving me from 12 to 24GB, barely seen one when installing the 2nd kit, other than when running VM's. Didn't even move the WEI up on the RAM scale, though the first set did. I suppose when one reaches a certain point, it's not seen at boot. What was even worse, when VMware Player recently upgraded, it showed a recommendation for a 6GiB Swap space. I gave it 4GiB prior, have drawn my line in the sand there. If 4GiB isn't enough, tough, it'll have to access my physical RAM. I'm not going to grow Swap space every time VMware Player upgrades. 

 

Good Luck with your RAM purchase, hope they do you right.  :thumbup2:

 

Cat


Edited by cat1092, 03 March 2015 - 01:27 AM.

Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 


#11 paul88ks

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 01:53 AM

Virtual machines aren't that hard to setup & run, the key thing to remember, is your computer capable of running these? 

 

At a bare minimum, and I learned this the hard way, 4GB of RAM is needed. So is a dual core CPU, that runs at over 2GHz, one can be ran on a little less CPU, but the results won't be good. 

 

Yes, deleting the ones that are giving you trouble would be good to do, as you can recreate these if desired. Or before deletion, you can look them over to see what needs changing. 

 

So that we can better advise you as to your options, will you please furnish the basic specs of the computer you're running these VM's on? For example the amount of installed RAM & type, if you know, and CPU specs. These are the key players for running VM's & if too low, we can possibly spare you some trouble. Windows OS's will require the most resources, therefore I don't advise trying to run one when there's only 4GB RAM present, it'll be slow, your CPU will be screaming & a lot of heat will be produced in trying to run one on the bare minimums. 

 

 

 

Hey Nick- I just got an unexpected bonus from work- so I will be headed to my local computer store tommorow to upgrade my RAM- my system will hold 32 gigs,so I'm gonna be a happy camper tomorrow!

 

Sounds like a grand plan to me, hopefully you can find a 32GB, 4 stick set (8GB per stick) for under $250. That costs less than 2 sets of 16GB, and much less than single 8GB sticks, which is not recommended & some brands will say this in their documentation, in a dual channel setup (most popular option), not to be mixing lot numbers in a channel, even if the model is the same. Like if you have 4 slots & you can't get a 32GB kit, then at least get two 16GB kits, and be sure to place each kit in the correct slots. Normally these will be marked for you by the color of the slots. In my case, two are off white, the other two black & they weren't in lined up order. It was like every other slot. This step cannot be overlooked, you may have problems otherwise.

 

The best place to check would be the OEM's site, there should be a section dedicated towards RAM replacement, which should show how to install dual channel RAM. 

 

The type is equally as important, it may be best to run Speccy on your Windows partition & click the RAM tab, and print the specs. What you don't want to do, is purchase the wrong type of RAM, in the worst case, it simply won't boot, like if voltages aren't the same. In some cases, the consumer will be cheating themselves out of performance by not purchasing the max frequency possible (e.g, installing DDR3 1333 RAM in a DDR3 1600 ready MB). 

 

Sometimes, these shops may be loaded up on a lot of a particular type of RAM & pushes it off on those whom doesn't know what to purchase. Or will simply examine an installed stick & not bother to check if it's the best performer for that computer. I cannot begin to count the days when customers were coming back home with PC2-5300 RAM sticks from the shop, when their PC's would take a PC2-6400 upgrade, a significant one, or worse yet, downgrade them to PC2-5300. Many shops loads up on 'safe defaults', and if they're re-installing one's OS at the same time, the customer won't know the difference, and worse, spread the word about how 'honest' they were. 

 

Then when one comes along who knows what's going on, they want to cop an attitude, citing their extensive list of 'satisfied' customers & collective years of tech experience on hand. 

 

That's why I purchase my RAM online, can email my Speccy specs to reps, and get a fast answer in return. GSkill is my choice of RAM, and they answered my contact on Christmas Eve inside of 3 hours, when normally anyone around would be at the office party. To their credit, I wasn't looking for an answer on that day, and was surprised to see it in my inbox. Newegg had it on promo, and that's when I pulled the trigger on my first RAM upgrade on the PC, if I had the funds, would have purchased both sets that day. The next set was purchased a month later. 

 

Kind of surprisingly, while I noticed an instant increase in performance with the first upgrade kit, moving me from 12 to 24GB, barely seen one when installing the 2nd kit, other than when running VM's. Didn't even move the WEI up on the RAM scale, though the first set did. I suppose when one reaches a certain point, it's not seen at boot. What was even worse, when VMware Player recently upgraded, it showed a recommendation for a 6GiB Swap space. I gave it 4GiB prior, have drawn my line in the sand there. If 4GiB isn't enough, tough, it'll have to access my physical RAM. I'm not going to grow Swap space every time VMware Player upgrades. 

 

Good Luck with your RAM purchase, hope they do you right.  :thumbup2:

 

Cat

Cat - thanks for the great detailed advice,and no disrespect intended,but this is not my first rodeo-so to speak- i checked the specs online for my HP- which was actually more difficult navigating the HP website than going up to Frys Electronics and making the purchase. I am a regular up there and they know I'm not an amateur PC builder. I was mistaken on the amount of Ram my PC would support- I thought it was 32 gigs ,but turned out to be only 16- so I bought 2 sticks of Pliny 4gig for 96 bucks.I was going to go ahead and max it out,but decided to wait until all the bill were paid.I should have enough moolah to buy the other 2 sticks in a few days.The old Hp takes DDR3 1600MH . So I now have 8 gig instead of 4, and will have 16 in a short time.Crucial ttold me I could put 12800MH in it - but there is not much difference in performance,and it is more expensive. Anyway,I said I was going to be a happy camper and I guess I am .Will be happier when i get the other two sticks!- Paul



#12 cat1092

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 03:19 AM

Glad to hear you got a great deal, wish there were a Fry's in my area, unfortunately there isn't. And good to hear you know what's going on, many doesn't know how to choose RAM or CPU upgrades. 

 

Yes, the HP site can be a pain to navigate, but not nearly as bad as their customer service. I was still in OEM warranty & they didn't want to replace a $5 mouse (the reason why I said $5 is because the local Rite-Aid pharmacy chain had the same mouse for that price), rather they wanted to remote access my computer, wasting 70 minutes of my time, and while I'm not against those in foreign lands, these OEM's should place a tech on the phone whom speaks the same language as the customer. The big ones has customers worldwide, so it's well possible to have a language preference as an option in the menu. The one I dealt with had a thick Indian accent, and I had to ask to repeat instructions like 3-5 times. This is a disrespect to me as a paying customer to take 70 minutes to do what should have taken no longer than 15. 

 

There was another time when their 'techs' had no idea what was going on, wanted to install an upgraded CPU, and not a one of them knew what PSU (notebook type) would fit in my AIO PC, other than the one that shipped with it, though at time of purchase, there was the option to purchase an extra 'high performance' (150W) PSU & keep the stock one (120W) as a spare. However, I didn't realize that I had to take a picture with the snipping tool every transaction made, so that I could inform these 'techs' how to do their job. HP obviously hires the cheapest labor they can get, they can follow what's on the computer, but cannot think 'outside of the box'. Had it been Dell, they'd have gotten it right & at least be on the same page. 

 

 

 

Crucial ttold me I could put 12800MH in it - but there is not much difference in performance,and it is more expensive.

 

Mine is the 1600MHz (PC3-12800) & it's not a lot more in cost, on the Newegg site, it's often the same price. I got the first set 16GB for $126, the 2nd for $119. Even many budget PC's like the $288-348 models at Walmart has 6GB of DDR3-PC3-12800 (1600MHz) RAM installed. I guess it's today's standard. Crucial has a good scanner, but is a pricey site to purchase from. 

 

Still, I can't say one way or the other that the lower spec is that much faster, maybe to hard core gamers. For those who wants to run a VM, what you have will do. 

 

VMware Player is the best VM software that I can recommend, outperforms Virtualbox in many ways, and is easy to connect USB drives & other devices. 

 

First, get the latest VM Player from here:

 

https://my.vmware.com/web/vmware/free#desktop_end_user_computing/vmware_player/7_0

 

Then open the Terminal & copy/paste these two lines:

 

cd Downloads

 

sudo  ./VMware-Player-7.1.0-2496824.x86_64.bundle

 

The installer should begin. If you need assistance, feel free to ask. 

 

Good Luck! :thumbup2:

 

Cat


Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 


#13 heyyou325

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 12:42 PM

ok, thanks Cat.  And also for the directions to install the vmware player.  I have a

                                   Memory     2.0 GiB

                                   Processor  Intel® Core™2 Duo CPU E4500 @ 2.20GHz × 2 

                                   Graphics    Intel® 945G x86/MMX/SSE2

                                   OS type     32-bit

                                   Disk           20.8 GB   (This will be about 40 when I do my repartitioning)

                                   

 

At a bare minimum, and I learned this the hard way, 4GB of RAM is needed. So is a dual core CPU, that runs at over 2GHz, one can be ran on a little less CPU, but the results won't be good. 

 

O, I also have 2.2 ghz of processor speed, 5 gb of swap, gonna be cut down to about 2, or maybe 3, I run a lot of the time at just about 1 gb by what sys info says.  I also have, running Peach

                                    Release        Ubuntu 14.04 (trusty)

                                    Gnome          3.8.4 (Ubuntu 2014-03-17)

                                    Kernel            3.13.0-39-generic (#66-Ubuntu SMP Tue Oct 28 13:31:23 UTC 2014)

 

This is a 7 or 8 year old systemax with 500gb .  I am probably a bit low on ram, but might try it anyway.  What's easy for most, I can really mess up.  I've learned a lot about linux, but still have a lot more to learn, and I mix things up a bit.  I've been considering either a virtualbox, or virtual machine for awhile, and will probably try it later.  Seems like I'm always busy, and I have to talk myself into trying new things as I like to stay in my comfort zone and don't deal with stress too good anymore.  And boy do I get stressed when things don't go right.  As I say, thanks all of you for the help.  I'll probably give it a try soon, and might be back for help on this then.



#14 cat1092

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 03:16 AM

Here are your CPU specs, and first off, you'd be better served by running a 64 bit OS, especially if you're going to be running VM's. 

 

http://ark.intel.com/products/30781/Intel-Core2-Duo-Processor-E4500-2M-Cache-2_20-GHz-800-MHz-FSB

 

Then you need to upgrade your physical RAM (Swap isn't a substitute for physical RAM, but you'll still need some), to at least 4GB. It may be that you have 4 RAM slots on your motherboard, each holding up to 2GB RAM. So if you were to purchase the proper 4GB RAM kit, which isn't that more than a 2GB one, you'd have a total of 6GB RAM, and that's plenty for running VM's. 

 

BTW, I have an older desktop which came with 2GB RAM installed, I stuffed it to the max of 8GB. Now, I need to find a more powerful used AM2 CPU that runs at no more than 95W for around $25-35 to give me best CPU power. Have already added a 1GB GDDR5 graphics card that was from another Dell, so I may be limited to a 65W model, though don't know if that would be worth the trouble. The initial upgrade was though, going from a AMD Athlon X2 4040e to 4850e, a 20% increase in CPU power, I let a 5050e slide away by not being at the desktop near the end of the auction (by mis-timing), it went for less than $20, and would have been another 2-3% increase. 

 

I could go with a 125W model, but surely the graphics card would have to come out, as there are no upgrade PSU's for the Dell Optiplex 740 Desktop Edition, these has a 280W max rating. 

 

You likely have the base computer to run VM's, just need to add some RAM. The Intel Core Duo CPU's were the best of their time, and not shabby today. 

 

Cat


Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 


#15 heyyou325

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 12:15 PM

Yea, I had some help from people on bleeping computer and had this machine built.  Clicked on a wrong AVG for antivirus and wiped everything out, just had a black screen.  Other than that it's been a great machine.  I like it and don't want to get rid of it, but not sure how much more I want to put in it.  I have (I really need to get into a picture website)  

Partition              File system         Size                        Used                      Unused         flag       What I have on, I change periodically

  /dev/sda1          extended           465.06 GiB     

          sda2          ext3                       721 MiB              207.17 MiB           513,83 Mib      boot

          sda5          Linux swap            4.88 GiB                 

          sda6          ext4                     20.51GiB                 3.65GiB                16.86GiB                  I have zorin lite at the moment,                                                                                                                                                                 recently reinstalled

          sda7          ext4                     20.51GiB                 5.48GiB                15.02GiB                  Mint

          sda8          ext4                     20.51GiB                 5.96GiB                14.55GiB                  Makulu 

          sda9          ext4                         234MiB             140.03MiB              93.97MiB                   Not sure what this is for

          sda10        ext4                    20.51GiB                   6.77GiB               13.74Gib                   Ubuntu Studio

          sda11        ext4                  357.63GiB                 32.37GiB             325.25GiB                   Home (files)

          sda12        ext4                         500MiB             110.69MiB             389.31MiB

          sda13        ext4     /              19.79GiB                 16.05GiB                  3.74GiB                   Peach

                                   

I'm intending on either having 2 with a virtual machine, or 3 without using the 100GiB for distros.  20gb is sort of small when I use the distro a lot.  I need to make my downloads go to the home folder.  I've already tried well over 30 distros, but I might find one I like better, so I keep trying them.  I've had a few where some of the programs didn't work, and one (I forget which that froze up every time I booted into it.  Had to hard shut off.  But otherwise no real problems with no virtual machine.  I'm probably gonna keep Peach, and then either mint, zorin, open suse, or ubuntu.  I like a lot more than that, but I seldom use anything other than Peach on this 32bit machine.  As I said above, I'm not really sure how much time and money I want to stick into a 2006 or 7 machine.  I guess it's 8 or 9 years old now.  I should check, but probably won't.  How slow would a VM be without adding ram, and would it even work, just to try one?






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