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Windows 8 users, Watch Out for Update KB3008273! Urgent!


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#1 cat1092

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 02:25 PM

This is an urgent post, so am going to make this short. 

 

Microsoft has released another update to Windows 8 users to 'silently' install 8.1, even if it's not wanted. You must choose the update shown & select to 'Hide Update" if the change is unwanted. 

 

This makes the 2nd time in 3-4 months that MS has pulled this stunt. Details of update below. 

 

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/3008273

 

EDIT: This is a revised version of a previous update that I hidden earlier. When I checked to see hidden updates, there were none on the list. So this was an action taken by Microsoft, unhiding updates that consumers doesn't want. This isn't the first time this has happened, and rest assured, it won't be the last. I recommend that Windows 8 users who doesn't want to upgrade to check updates each & every month. 

 

Cat


Edited by cat1092, 11 February 2015 - 02:53 PM.

Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 


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#2 TechnicianOnline

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 02:54 PM

Well thats shady, I'll have to apply changes to WSUS now.

 

Thanks Cat.


Edited by TechnicianOnline, 11 February 2015 - 02:54 PM.

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#3 Aura

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 02:58 PM

I don't know why some people would decide to stay under Windows 8 as they'll have to eventually move to Windows 8.1, and it's even better if they upgrade to it right now.

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#4 TechnicianOnline

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 03:36 PM

I don't know why some people would decide to stay under Windows 8 as they'll have to eventually move to Windows 8.1, and it's even better if they upgrade to it right now.

 

Custom software that isn't comptable for Windows 8.1. Enterpirse customers don't like the idea of a migration if it's not needed.

 

It's just business..


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#5 Aura

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 06:08 PM

I'm pretty sure that making your software compatible with Windows 8.1 from Windows 8 isn't that hard. Plus, if it's compatible Windows 8, there's big chances that it'll be Windows 7 compatible or even Vista compatible, so they could use Compatibility Mode.

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#6 quietman7

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 10:03 PM

Watch for these too...

Microsoft's KB3001652 Breaks Down Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 Systems
KB3001652 Update Pulled Due to Issues on Windows 8.1 and Windows 7
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#7 cat1092

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 01:09 AM

Thanks for the warning, quiteman7! :thumbup2:

 

Evidently had forgotten that yesterday was Patch Tuesday, the first such time I've missed the day in 2-3 years. So fortunately it was pulled before it got to me. One of the oddest things about this month's patches, after 20-22 updates on Windows 7, 8 & 8.1, there were a couple more to follow. That has happened prior, but has been some time for me since I've seen a slew of updates followed by two more. 

 

These were KB3034196 & KB3001652 that was mentioned above. Evidently, Microsoft must have solved that one fast, so far have installed it on four Windows 7 & two 8.1 systems, with no negative issues to report so far. Could have been that it needed to be installed after other updates. Maybe I was fortunate that I had overlooked Patch Tuesday. 

 

I don't know why some people would decide to stay under Windows 8 as they'll have to eventually move to Windows 8.1, and it's even better if they upgrade to it right now.

 

Aura, check out the Windows 8 section, and you'll very quickly find quite a number of Topics of failed upgrades from 8 to 8.1 for varying reasons, or there were hurdles to overcome after the upgrade. Wireless cards not working is a top issue, as well as OEM features no longer working as intended. On some Dell notebooks that's still current, the only thing that prevents the upgrade is a USB SD card reader, not an item that many customers can do anything about. First off, any warranty will likely be voided if the notebook is torn down this far (same with wireless cards). Secondly, Dell is pointing the finger with MS, and MS is pointing the finger right back. Dell is in the right, MS should have been more concentrated on their largest user share, rather than using customers as a clinical study to see if this type of SP delivery would work seamlessly. Many to this date still cannot apply the upgrade. I was able to on a couple of older models (2010 & 2011 ones), but never bothered with that which shipped with my Dell. Which was clean installed my myself, and know by experience of the prior two & others, that upgrades aren't the same. One of which took two attempts to get it right. 

 

MS pulled the 8.1 Upgrade (really Windows 8 SP1 as far as long term support goes) w/out letting all of the OEM's know well ahead of time, so that retailers could round up as many Windows 8 systems as possible. Allowing these to be sold well beyond the release date, many at major retailers, not all second tier ones, initially not knowing the issue was there. Only after it became well known there were various issues with 8.1 not properly applying, was most of the stock of Windows 8 computers pulled off of retail shelves & first rate online retailers. Second tier retailers were still moving the units as fast as possible. Others were offering at an extra cost, an upgrade to Windows 7, stable ground. 

 

I can't speak for all of the OEM's issues, just the Dell XPS 8700 that I own. There is a whole different set of drivers for 8.1, as these were sold with Windows 7, 8 & 8.1, and of course the 8.1 ones were the last released. This is beyond the scope of the everyday consumer, whom rightfully expects their computers to be working fine just weeks or a couple of months after purchase, and an undue burden. Dell's position, as well as other OEM's, is that they support the OS the computer was shipped with, there isn't Windows 8.1 drivers for every component of every model sold, even if there were, they'd have to be applied post upgrade, and the result would again be upgrades that didn't take & reversed. The days of floppy drives to insert needed drivers for the OS to install are a relic of the past for the majority of us. 

 

Under the old rule of applying service packs, most consumers reported positive results, even if some drivers had to be updated afterwards. There is no need to have to perform a reinstall of the OS to install a service pack. If this trend continues with Windows 10, it will cost MS market share. MS contends that 'new features' were added, and rather than helping customers, pointed the finger at the OEM's. I find it odd, that prior SP's offered new features & enhancements, one that many of us are using to this date (Windows Firewall) was delivered by traditional service pack. 

 

As far as customers having to do it because they may eventually have to, while this may be true, that decision should be left up to the consumer, not Microsoft. Some consumers has other plans than to go with 8.1 & then 10, some may revert to 7, others may make other moves. Some may decide to wait until the end of support for Windows 8, to see how 10 goes before making this decision, not wanting to be burned a 2nd or 3rd time. If Microsoft is going to be delivering these updates underhanded, then they should be supporting their OS's by on site service if something goes wrong. Another reason why I'm skeptical of them promising to support Windows 10 when released, but that's for another Topic. 

 

Like TechnicianOnline pointed out, there are businesses running Windows 8. Loss of service can cause business disruption, including loss of customers. Some, including myself, don't care to hear that a business computers are down when walking through the door & have to return at another time. Unless it's a place I'm really loyal to, that will be the last time I walk through their door, because in a case like this, it's obvious they had no backup plan in place, including that to safeguard my data. Businesses should have 24/7 non-stop backup, which will allow for a quick revert when needed & consumers should backup before Patch Tuesday of each month. 

 

Had I not been going through those Windows 8 updates carefully, would have had to revert to the update taken on Sunday to prevent a background update to take place. These are stable releases, unlike participants of the Windows Insider Program. KB3008273 was a pre-checked update after I hid it 3-4 months back. Shouldn't have shown again w/out my consent. This was also an issue nearly 4 years back with KB971033 for Windows 7, consumers had the right to not install the update, and MS promised that it wouldn't be mandatory. At the time, I did allow it to install, and after seeing that it was 'phoning home' at every boot, removed the update & hid it. 3-4 months later, it again reinstalled itself, but MS openly apologized for that one, after removal & hiding again, never seen it. While I do allow the update to go through on clean or reinstalls, will remove a few days later. As consumers, we shouldn't have to prove we paid for a license to operate Windows 7 at every boot. 

 

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#8 JohnC_21

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 11:20 AM

It used to be rare that Microsoft would pull a Security Update. Now it seems it's happening every patch Tuesday or if it's not pulled something goes wrong like the font problem in Vista. I hate to see what happens when Microsoft goes to rapid updates.



#9 quietman7

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 12:36 PM

Or when they go to automatic mandatory updates.


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#10 rp88

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 01:48 PM

This update will (probably) not be displayed if you do NOT have kb2871389 installed, without KB2871389 one does not (in my experience)receive any updates which try and force the user to upgrade, nor does one get annoying prompts to do so. I have not seen this listed in the updates i have been offered. I would suggest to those wishing to prevent forcible upgrade that you remove KB2871389 and hide it, this should stop KB2871389 ever being offered and prevent either KB2973544 or KB3008273 (both of which appear to have attempted forced upgrades on some people) from even being offered, let alone installing.

From what i can tell KB2871389 is technically a compatibility update, one designed to improve compatibility between 8.0 and 8.1, only once it is installed are KB3008273 (which i have heard of before and noted down on my desk notebook paper as being "questionable and best avoided"), KB2865699 (which seems to offer the annoying but non-forced "upgrade now or remind me later" prompts) and KB2973544(which has forcibly upgraded users of 8.0 to 8.1 with an "upgrade now or in 4 hours" prompt) offered.


john c 21 "It used to be rare that Microsoft would pull a Security Update"... most of the updates having bugs, performing forced upgrade "sneak attacks" or being pulled aren't security ones, they are regular updates to fix "known non-security issues", like compatibility problems or issues in un-updated software that might cause crashes under certain circumstances.

cat 1092 "..... consumers should backup before Patch Tuesday of each month. " some updates are released on other tuesdays, it is more advisable to set an alarm on your phone or something, or a note on your calendar warning you to check for updates manually (on top of automatic checks) EVERY tuesday and to be prepared for whatever you may need to do when those updates get offered. I have for more than a year now, since i first realised this automatic upGRaDe business was going on, made sure to never let my pc install upDaTes on it's own accord, merely check for them, installation (or not)is MY CHOICE. An alarm set for every tuesday is a sensible thing to have, whichever method of updating you use.

I am beginning to beleive that the only updates which users should install are those calling themselves "Security Update for ..." and not those simply calling themselves and "Update for ...". From what i have seen all the buggy or sneaky updates have been of the latter kind, and this latter kind doesn't actually do anything for you unless you have experienced one of the rare and unusual crashes of particular things which these updates are designed to fix.

Edited by rp88, 12 February 2015 - 02:05 PM.

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#11 cat1092

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 12:44 AM

This is why I have Automatic Updates enabled, but to notify only. I'll decide which to apply after research, other than the monthly MSRT update. Still, by default, it doesn't 'scrub' the system, however it will if one types 'mrt.exe' into the Search box & choose to run Full Scan, it will. Otherwise, only a short scan will be ran. 

 

 

 

This update will (probably) not be displayed if you do NOT have kb2871389 installed

 

rp88, thanks for this!  :)

 

As soon as I reboot into Windows 8 again, I'll check for & remove this update, if installed. It's a shame that we have to go through the trouble of filtering updates each & every month, but it's what things has came down to. Other than being alert & informing one another, what can we do? 

 

I still believe it's wrong on many levels when we choose to hide an update, that it becomes mysteriously 'unhidden' & reoffered. Saying 'No' should be the final word. Microsoft has became as relentless as certain street level vendors in how they conduct business with it's customers. What part of a two letter word do they not understand? The really bad thing about this account, it's a non-live one, a local account only & how and future ones will be setup. 

 

There should also be a way to get rid of that notice that shows every now and then, 'Get Windows 8 now for free', rather than a 'remind me later' option, which on one occasion required use of the Task Manager to stop. There likely is a way, probably through regedit, but have not been aggressive in researching for a solution. Some of us just plain out doesn't want 8.1, nor the 'next best thing' afterwards. I would not be surprised in the least if Microsoft dropped such an update to hundreds of millions of Windows 7 Home Premium consumers when the time arrives or shortly before. 

 

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Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 


#12 rp88

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 03:39 PM

"There should also be a way to get rid of that notice that shows every now and then, 'Get Windows 8 now for free'" There is, uninstall KB2871389, since i did that i've never had such a prompt.
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#13 cat1092

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 03:57 AM

Thanks again, rp88, that's killing two birds with one stone! :)

 

If & when I decide to install Windows 8.1, it will be a clean install, not an upgrade that will be nothing but problems. Actually have the ISO, downloaded from Microsoft, but have more important things to do at the moment. Windows 8.1 on a 3rd computer is way down my list of priorities, so low that it's not in sight. Maybe after the final Consumer Preview of Windows 10 is launched & I like it. 

 

On the other hand, if they're playing dirty with Windows 8 consumers, expect no better with the next OS release, perhaps worse as they perfect controlling customer's desktops directly. If they can go in and unselect a previously hidden update on a computer that's not signed into a Live MS account, think of what they can do with those who are already in. The implications doesn't look good. 

 

Cat


Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 


#14 rp88

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 09:13 AM

A quick thought on how this update came to make itself re-appear:

I have noticed that ms sometimes bundles one update within another, over on my updates monitoring thread I've just found that an update (a security one so it should be safe from any issues) I had been about to install was no longer available because it had already installed itself by bundling within another update i had installed a few days back. Maybe some type of bundling of a similar nature is responsible for the re-appearance of the KB3008273 update after you had hidden it.

Another thought:

If ms keeps on trying to force upgrades, and enough people notice their sneaky tactics and tell the world what they have seen then maybe ms will give up trying for fear of losing customers in future. If enough people speak out ms will have to back down otherwise when people come around to getting a new computer then many more will be choosing linux or mac. Microsoft needs to decide whether they want to end up with a narrow customer base from which they would try bleeding more and more money until eventually even those users also choose alternative systems, or a wide customer base which they could achieve if they stop trying to interfere with their own users.

Edited by rp88, 15 February 2015 - 09:20 AM.

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#15 cat1092

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 11:37 PM

 

 

If ms keeps on trying to force upgrades, and enough people notice their sneaky tactics and tell the world what they have seen then maybe ms will give up trying for fear of losing customers in future

 

rp88, that and delivering service packs the good old way.....the one that worked for many years! Users could opt-out w/out seeing some silly message to install the next SP for free. When no more updates would come, then it would be up to that consumer to install the next one. For most intents & purposes, including that of continual support beyond 01/12/2016, 8.1 is really Windows 8 SP1. Same with Windows 7 SP1 & Vista SP2 of today. The real difference is licensing/activation issues, but the same may hold true if one tried to activate Windows 7 that's pre-SP1 with a SP1 COA, I've never tried this to see, so cannot say. 

 

I do agree that customer feedback is a strong tool, but only if the masses stands up, not a few thousand, but rather tens of millions. Microsoft is so large of a corporation that if they lost a million customers, even two million, they'd still hold at over 90% of total usershare. Though I believe they couldn't dismiss the grievances of that number of users as hogwash, nor sweep these under the rug. That's what I'm hoping that the 'Windows Feedback' generator of the 10 Preview will do, many who had these issues under the 8.1 release will speak up. Though I don't run the preview daily, when I do, it's the precise feedback I give, revert to proven SP delivery & run a more transparent OS delivery system, from them to 3rd party resellers. They have the pull to twist arms all the way down the chain, and when it's in their best interests, does so. It's time they do the same for their consumers, to include for security reasons, introducing a prerequisite of having .NET framework 4.5.2 or above to install newly released software (MS provided or 3rd party) after the release of Windows 10, if not before. 

 

While that may rock a few boats, .NET Framework 4.5.2 will install on all supported versions of Windows. If Microsoft is going to be force feeding software, it should be those that will improve our security, not just the ones they want us to have. That's my whole reason for even bothering to open this Topic, this update, as well as many others that preceded it in the same fashion, were those primarily to benefit Microsoft first, it's consumers benefit didn't matter & never has over the course of the last three to five years. Otherwise, they'd be providing the best support possible to it's largest customer base. They tried to re-slide in KB971033 the same way, after promising not to, then saying it was an 'error'. 

 

Windows 8 consumers can expect more of the same type of these 'errors' over the course of the next few months. If they really want to 'assist' these consumers, then a 8.1 clean install ISO or mailed DVD would be the best course of action that'll work with the same COA that Speccy/Belarc Advisor shows as the Windows 8 one (or if a Windows 8 one from the beginning, the UEFI chip can properly detect and allow the install). While there are workarounds to this that has a high probability of working, we shouldn't have to jump though hoops for a clean 8.1 install. Which is the best route, outside of traditional SP delivery and may rectify a lot of issues customers are having with post 8.1 upgrades. 

 

Cat


Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 





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