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LMM17 Updates


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#1 pcpunk

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 07:01 PM

I am revisiting some of the changes I made to the Update Manager because I don't believe I need some of this stuff.  Here is the website that I used for the changes:  https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/mint-mate-first

Here is one of the quotes from it.                                         

"It's worthwhile to make Mints Update manager a little less cautious: that gives you the advantage of extra bug fixes and extra security updates."

I followed instructions from 1.1, 1.2 and 1.2.1

 

Here are some of the Updates that I don't think I need, but my question is:  Should I leave these Level 4-5 Updates active, and just Select the updates that look to be of Security in nature?

 

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#2 NickAu

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 07:11 PM

 

Should I leave these Level 4-5 Updates active

IMHO, These can break your OS, I don't recommend novices  install upgrades that can affect the stability of their system, There is a reason these are not configured to automatically install.

I have them on however I feel confident I can recover my machine should the worst happen.


Edited by NickAu, 13 December 2014 - 07:13 PM.

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#3 cat1092

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Posted 14 December 2014 - 05:45 AM

pcpunk, there's a reason why the Mint developers had these hidden by default, evidently you ran across an article to how to have them show. Some of these are updates don't come from Mint, they come from Ubuntu, and if any are from 14.10, you'll surely be bringing troubles to yourself. 

 

Look at all of those exclamation points to the left. It was just yesterday you were asking about one for a Level 3 update (that should have been submitted for Level 4 review). And you're asking about these? Again, any with a red exclamation point means to stop & think about what you're doing. That's why in my tutorial, I never covered unhiding unsanctioned updates, because I'm not going to get one out of a jam over them. 

 

My advice is to not apply these, as they've broken test systems, and why they're hidden, doesn't matter if they're listed as a security update or not. If you install these against the advise of the MInt team, and your install breaks, or goes to acting up, you'll be back here looking for how to fix things. And at this point, the only way I know how to fix is a reinstall, uninstalling unwanted updates isn't the same as with Windows. Is that what you want, a potentially broken OS?

 

This is my suggestion, whatever you done to make these unsanctioned updates visible, undo it. It's a matter of unchecking the boxes you selected to show these. No, don't leave them as "active", I'm not going to assist in fixing an OS where members applies unsanctioned updates, anyone who does is on their own. 

 

They were hidden by default for the safety of your OS. Choosing to unhide them, and applying any, these users can just plan on reinstall if the OS is broken. Thing is, once any are applied, they'll have to be updated to remain current, meaning you've opened a huge can of worms if you've applied the first one. The Ubuntu devs considers these as safe. The Mint devs are far more selective & aim for a safe & stable OS over the "bleeding edge" approach. Some may cause your computer to use more resources & therefore, the OS will be slower. 

 

Did you read Page 42 here? 

 

http://www.linuxmint.com/documentation/user-guide/MATE/english_17.0.pdf

 

No matter what anyone else tells you, don't be led into thinking any of these updates will be safe on your system. We didn't have that before Mint 13, and it was a bit after it was released before we did. I did what you're doing right in that picture, but didn't ask anyone. Installed about a dozen or so updates in those lists (Level 4 & 5), and had to reinstall. And didn't have the 1st person to assist me, as I knew what I had done (& now so do you), no way was I going to ask others to assist me in fixing what I deliberately broke (by not following instructions). 

 

Now, let me explain in short order why you see those. It's because Mint was built upon Ubuntu, and that OS, plus several others, uses the same ones. On most of those systems, they're OK. However Mint develops some of their own updates (that Ubuntu has nothing to do with), and having those & applying the Level 4 & 5 (even some Level 3 in red) can clash. 

 

I hope that you understand the urgency of my post, and that you'll fix the Update Manager back as was. The folks at Mint would have done that for us, but per their agreement with Ubuntu, their hands are tied, they must show the updates for those who wants to look. Kind of like new Windows 8 & 8.1 computers. Microsoft nor the OEM shows how to disable those shackles called Secure Boot, a 100% useless feature designed to lock us out of the hardware we pay for, under the pretense it keeps us safe. That's a lie. Visit the Security section & see how many Windows 8/8.1 computers are severely infected. If anything, Secure Boot causes certain security tools not to do it's job, the key to the handcuffs must be brought out & unlock the computer to cleanse it. 

 

Differences between Microsoft & Linux Mint are these:

 

1) Linux Mint is a non-profit, they have no commercial interests in this, so they have no reason to lie. If you run their OS, you do, if you don't then you don't. No arm twisting. If you do run their OS, they want you to be as safe as possible & have a reliable OS. 

 

2) Microsoft (MSFT) is a for profit corporation created over 30 years ago. They will do anything to get consumers money, through themselves, their partner OEM's, their 3rd party resellers (such as Best Buy), it's money, money & more money. They've had to pull updates several times this year because they were messing up users computers. In more recent years, since the Windows 8 release, they had a feature introduced called Secure Boot. That was to keep users like you & I from running Linux, earlier versions of Windows such as Windows 7, but were telling consumers it's a "safety feature". It's a Lie. They also claim that Windows 8 & 8.1 boots faster than earlier releases. That's a LIe. Because it's never shut down by default, it hibernates. 

 

I have the Secure Boot disabled from my computer & it never will be reenabled. 

 

Linux MInt & other Linux developers cares about their users. The heads at Microsoft could care less about the first one of us. In this matter, the folks at Linux Mint has hidden those updates to protect you, because it has features that Ubuntu & others doesn't have. Like MATE & Cinnamon, those are Mint exclusives, though they can be added to Ubuntu, or at least Cinnamon can. One member with 30 posts in 9 years stated something about Ubuntu MATE, but it was the only time I've heard of it. Anyway, mix in those updates with Cinnamon & MATE, you'll not know what will happen. You may have a workable, but insecure computer. Or it may not boot or there will be performance loss. 

 

Folks needs to think before they act in instances such as this, like it should be common sense, if they're hidden, there's a reason, good or bad. In this case, good. In the case of Secure Boot, telling one what to do with their paid for personal property. They claim Secure Boot is the fastest on Earth, It's not, Core Boot is, but there's a limited set of machines that can run it. 

 

At any rate, it's my hope that you re-hide those updates & not bring trouble upon yourself. Please don't do the same thing I done a couple of years back & be left facing a reinstall, all because of not following instructions. 

 

Have a great day! :thumbup2:

 

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#4 Pjotr123

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Posted 14 December 2014 - 02:26 PM

I stumbled on this thread after a web search for references to my website, and I would like to comment on the update issue in Linux Mint 17.x.
 
1. First of all, in Update Manager in Linux Mint 17.x you can only enable updates which are based on Ubuntu 14.04, *not* on Ubuntu 14.10. So there's no fear of installing stuff that's *in itself* incompatible with your Mint 17.x.
 
2. Level 4 and 5 updates are *not* hidden by default, when they concern security risks. That's new in Linux Mint 17.x, because in previous Mint versions they were indeed hidden. In Mint 17.x security updates from the "dangerous" levels are by default visible but not enabled. So the choice is yours.
 
3. Level 4 and 5 updates will *not* clash with Mints own packages. They are simply updates that may cause problems in a rather small minority of hardware combinations. They cause those same problems both in Ubuntu 14.04 systems and in Linux Mint 17.x systems. Ubuntu doesn't exclude them, and Ubuntu is still known to be both reliable and stable.... So it's not wildly irresponsible to install them. Upstream, at Ubuntu, they have already undergone pretty heavy testing.
 
4. I speak from experience: I'm a fulltime Linux user since 2006 (first mainly Ubuntu and then mainly Mint). In all those years, I've only infrequently seen problems caused by updates which Mint classifies as dangerous. That doesn't mean that those risks don't exist; it simply means that the chance of misfortune isn't big.
 
5. In my opinion, Linux Mint is acting sensibly by applying this classification. It's an improvement over Ubuntu, and a blessing for system administrators. Nevertheless, provided that you know what you're doing, it can have benefits to configure Mints Update Manager to be a little bit less cautious. My how-to aims to provide the information you need to make a balanced decision for yourself.
 
Hope this clarifies things a bit. :)
 
Regards, Pjotr.

Edited by Budapest, 15 December 2014 - 02:02 AM.
Website reference removed ~Budapest


#5 pcpunk

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Posted 14 December 2014 - 09:22 PM

O-boy, sorry for opening this can of worms lol.  The upside is it has been very informative!  Thanks to all for the clear and thorough posts.

 

NickAu1, I believe this is very good advice as usual, and I respect your judgment, as I do with cat1092.  The same goes for our new guest Pjotr123, all of what he is stating seems to be legit, open and honest from his/her experience.  I will of course take all of this into account and make a decision soon.  Don't see any reason to rush into it at the moment because this has been activated since June when I installed this distro.

 

I found this site because of you guys here on B.C....but don't remember who pointed me to it.  Perhaps just for some other info. like the swappiness thing, but I read it all and tried to play around with it.  I  gotta learn somehow lol. if I have to reinstall so be it, I would rather not but am prepared to do so.  I have tried not to commit to having too much on my OS for this very reason.

 

cat1092:  

"Look at all of those exclamation points to the left. It was just yesterday you were asking about one for a Level 3 update (that should have been submitted for Level 4 review). And you're asking about these? Again, any with a red exclamation point means to stop & think about what you're doing. That's why in my tutorial, I never covered unhiding unsanctioned updates, because I'm not going to get one out of a jam over them." 

 

Wow, you really beat me up there cat, lol - just kidding.

The reason I asked about that level three update was because of the Warning Popup that came with it, before that I never saw that "Warning".  Again these have  been active since June, if I remember right.  

 

I was under the assumption that the exclamation mark meant "Security" only, is this not true?  That is what it said on page #42, here is the quote:   "Furthermore you have a symbol showing if it's a (Down arrow) Package update or a (Exclamation point) Security update."

 

cat, will you point me to your tutorial? and thanks for supplying me with the PDF so that I can keep learning about all this, your time is well appreciated.  I have the PDF but don't always remember to use it or what exactly it contains.

 

Hope I didn't leave anything out.  Again, this has been very helpful.  

 

Thanks, pcpunk


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#6 cat1092

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Posted 14 December 2014 - 11:38 PM

 

 

cat, will you point me to your tutorial? and thanks for supplying me with the PDF so that I can keep learning about all this, your time is well appreciated.  

 

pcpunk, that tutorial, or a lot of it, is in links within the Topic where I announced LM 17.1. Buried among these, is where I found the PDF. I don't have my own personal tutorial written, just that one article that has many links within each one (click onto ome link, there will be several, click one of those, there'll be several more). That's how to add a lot without adding a messy string of links. 

 

You're quite welcome! :thumbup2:

 

As to those Level 3 updates with a red exclamation point, I normally examine closely what it's for, if it serves no useful purpose for me, I'll just hide it. If it serves a purpose, like Google Chrome, then I'll accept it, though in all honestly I don't see how they rate Firefox as a #2 Update & Google Chrome a #3, both are safe browsers coming from their Update Manager. The only reasoning I can think of, is that by default, Firefox has lots of Mint material, unless the home page is changed, plus DuckDuckGo (great search engine), and Google Chrome will have none of that, unless added. 

 

Read the next quote very carefully, it's worded as simple as it gets, and comes for where Linux Mint is developed, in Belgium. 

 

 

 

Level 4 and 5 updates are not recommended unless they bring solutions to issues you’re facing. Level 3 updates should be applied selectively and with precautions.

 

Source with lots of other information. 

 

http://www.linuxmintusers.be/blog/

 

This isn't a new release to me, I was running 17.1 RC nearly a month ago, got word of it the day of release. The RC was just as stable as what we have now, at least on my end, no system hangups or crashes took place, but just as in the docs, I wouldn't recommend it for those who are running a place of business, for school, or any mission critical purpose, and it shouldn't be the only OS available for any user. 17.1 RC was installed the old fashioned way, using an SD card to create media, and performed a "fresh upgrade", by now many probably know what that means. 

 

That's keeping one's /home & Swap partitions intact, and formatting the main (/) partition clean, actually how I prefer it. Come the next RC, will do the same on another one, though it's been stated that 17.1 is going to hold us over until 2016. Information on this is at the bottom of this page, the New Features page, where Compiz related details are, though I'm not impressed with it, other distros that's come & gone had similar windows managers. I'll stick with the proven Marco. 

 

http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_rebecca_mate_whatsnew.php

 

Finally, and this has been discussed prior, we cannot take the word for every Linux Mint 17.1/Ubuntu 14.10 "Speed Me Up" tips like they're cast into stone. Some of the tips are indeed good, others can break one's system & cause one's Mint 17.1 system not run properly. I'm referring to the link that the OP provided in the opening words of this Topic. 

 

 https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/mint-mate-first

 

When Linux Mint 17 was released, I made the mistake of following a tutorial on enabling TRIM, when it was already enabled by default, so likely broke the native SSD support by adding lines of code that was unnecessary. These articles are focused primarily on one thing, making money for the writer, if you're running an adblocker, it'll be noticed & the reader with the adblocker will receive a notice. 

 

 

 

This website is being sponsored by Google Ads.

Are you using an ad blocker? Then you're also blocking my earnings from advertisements....

 

That's the top information at the right of the page. This is #1 an ad page, designed to generate revenue for both Google & the author, and #2, some tips & tricks, not all proven to be 100% safe, Such as this one. 

 

 

 

Solid State Drive (SSD): optimize it for Ubuntu 14.04, Linux Mint 17.1 and Debian

 

There is no point in wasting the time to read this, if one managed to install to SSD, and as long as one used GParted prior to install to create partitions to ensure alignment, there's nothing to optimize. For MInt 13 (still supported) yes it is, same with unsupported 14, 15 & 16, which no one should be running anyway, unsupported is just that, be it XP or Linux Mint, there's no support. Worse for many Mint distros, one cannot even get all of the original updates to download, if any. Something that MS should consider doing to prevent fresh installs of unsupported releases, and how Mint is handling this the right way. 

 

Yes, they'll run, but w/out updates, what good are these unsupported releases? At least 5 versions of Firefox, their main browser, has been released, and as many versions of most optional browsers, such as Google Chrome. 

 

I'm not saying all of these articles are w/out merit, but they have their own agenda to push first, and that's ad income. Assisting us is the backburner priority, and we must be careful of what we enable, add or remove. This same author has recommended to remove Brasero & install a optical media app that's designed for Xfce editions on MATE & Cinnamon in Xfburn, think about that for a minute, what's the first two letters of the name of the app, what does that imply? Xf=Xfce. 

 

 

 

Xfburn is the default burning application provided by the Xfce desktop environment.

 

Ah, there we go! So, what purpose does it have being on a full featured edition of Linux Mint 17.1, namely the MATE & Cinnamon editions? Mint 17.1 has a nice burning app in Brasero, that in probably over a hundred times has never failed me, while it may tomorrow, it hasn't yet, and until it does, am sticking with what works. Why does the author suggest changing, again, fixing what isn't broken? 

 

That's why it's best to get the information that one needs from their distro (whichever it may be) site, the devs of each knows what's safe for their distros, what works & doesn't, and what's risky. While those who wants bleeding edge will take maximum risk, this represents a small minority of users. Most wants a stable, predictable computer that just works as should & doesn't care to fixing this & that day after day because we decide to install high risk updates, as though the warnings weren't there. 

 

Like I stated, I did break a Mint 13 install by installing a bundle of Level 4 & 5 updates. 

 

It won't happen again. That choice belongs to every user, and those who chooses to live by the sword also takes the risk of dying by it. One whom does this should backup their personal data often, as only a total clean install will purge the system of these, some can cause changes to settings in the /home directory, and a clean upgrade won't cut it. I clean installed the entire Mint 13 partitions, after copying my virtual machine folder over to an external. One or more Level 5 updates caused not only the browsers not to work, but also my Broadcom network card. 

 

Oh, and this same author recommends in the detailed SSD tutorial (TRIM management) it's "not very useful" to have a /home partition.

 

 

 

When you have more mounted EXT4 partitions, you'll have to adapt the command line accordingly. For example, if you have a separate home partition (although that's not very useful), then the command is:
fstrim -v /home

 

Source: 

 

https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/ssd

 

Cat


Edited by cat1092, 15 December 2014 - 01:36 AM.

Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 


#7 cat1092

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 01:22 AM


 

 

I stumbled on this thread after a web search for references to my website Easylinuxtipsproject, and I would like to comment on the update issue in Linux Mint 17.x.

 

Are you really trying to assist Linux Mint users, or is your primary goal to earn income from ads? You've stated that this is your Website, a look in the upper right corner places some of your content in question, and raises the question of why you are here. To lure us in for your earnings. Pictures are better than words, so I'll let it do the talking. 

 

CaptureLinuxMintSpammer2.png

 

The five points you've made, most are covered on your Website. One is no longer needed with the latest Mint releases (SSD tweaks), and some of those Level 4 & 5 updates can indeed knock an OS out, as it did on one of mine. Some of the others are well known to many of us, long before seeing it on your site. 

 

Cat


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#8 Pjotr123

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 05:20 AM

@cat1092: it would benefit the quality of this thread, if you would simply accept the factual corrections I've made concerning some of your incorrect statements about Linux Mint. There's no need to become emotional over that.
 
Please understand that there's a difference between making a lot of noise and having a constructive technical discussion.... As I fear that the latter has become impossible, this'll be the last post that I make in this forum.
 
May you have a merry Christmas,
 
Pjotr.


#9 NickAu

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 02:49 PM

Re the advertising,

 

All sites have bill's to pay advertising is 1 way of doing it, At least Pjotr is honest about it.


Edited by NickAu, 15 December 2014 - 07:23 PM.

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