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Beat The Blackhats


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#16 cat1092

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 03:39 AM

It's also fairly well known that those who knows me, also knows that I've ran Linux MInt a long time, for over 5 & a half years. And it's been since very early 2012 since I made a transaction on Windows, though I do use the OS on forums, mainly to assist other Windows users, as well as keeping my Speccy specs updated in my sig.......no Linux equivalent for that one, to my knowledge. As an Advisor, also cannot "cut the cord", as Wiz smartly did, really it's the best way to learn. 

 

Most all of my general purpose browsing, email reading & some of my forum activity is also on Linux Mint 17 MATE 64 bit. Linux MInt is widely regarded as close as a drop in replacement for Windows as it gets. No one has to give up Windows to run LInux, as I didn't myself, though for a period I did. 

 

Linux OS's can also be ran on Windows via VirtualBox, however I cannot vouch that it's as secure than on it's own partition or bootable media. Most all Linux install media doubles as a Live Internet session, that's designed to give the potential user to try before deciding & to ensure hardware compatibility. 

 

I have to agree 100% with the OP, whom I know as Wiz, that Linux is the answer to many of the threats going on today. 

 

Users does not have to pay for extra security with Linux. 

 

Computers boots much faster & so does software with LInux. 

 

The latest versions of Linux MInt & Ubuntu has support for TRIM, for those with SSD's. GParted on the install media will align partitions & they'll be right. 

 

If one wants to dual boot Linux with Windows & already have 3 Primary partitions (system, main or "C" & recovery), that's fine, Linux installs & runs from Logical partitions. 

 

Linux requires much less maintenance, no Disk Cleanup or Defrag needed, the file system is designed to stay organized & stay clean. The more one runs their Linux install, the faster it gets.  

 

The one thing need the most for security is enabling the ufw Firewall after install & reboot, before update check. In the Start Menu, the Terminal will be seen. Click on it, it'll look like a "cmd" box, type "sudo ufw enable" & you'll be prompted for password. It's normal not to see any movement when this is entered, another security feature. 

 

Finally, for a file to infect Linux, your root password has to be manually entered, this is for any executable file. Even System Update requires this. 

 

If everyone just tried Linux with an open mind for one hour using the built in Firefox or adding Google Chrome (hey, bookmarks & extensions transfers if synced), my guess is that at least 5% would make the switch. Firefox & Google Chrome, as well as Opera, works the same as on Windows. A few extensions designed for Windows only won't transfer. 

 

For those who absolutely need MS Office, there's WINE to handle it. However, LibreOffice will more than do the job for many users, especially non-professionals & will convert most MS Office files, with a few exceptions. However that would likely affect just a small percentage of Windows users. 

 

In closing, I ask all to be open minded & just give LInux a try. You may be surprised at just how much better your computer runs, even the newer low spec ones (those with recent Celeron, Pentium & A-4 CPU's), as well as most all computers that shipped with Windows XP or above. Some PC users may need to upgrade a CPU or graphics card to run the latest titles. CPU's for older computers can be had on eBay for as little as $10, sites such as Newegg always has promos on graphics cards. Those with computers designed to run Vista & up should be able to run the latest Linux titles. 

 

And with Linux, most of the EULA days are over. Only a few apps requires a EULA. 

 

Come & join the Linux family, and be free! :)

 

Cat


Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 


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#17 wizardfromoz

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 05:10 AM

+1 :thumbup2:

 

:wizardball: Wizard

 

FYI - TRIM, see Wikipedia here

EULA  Wikipedia here

 

May or may not have time to start a Glossary, folks

 

Make Google your friend, make Wikipedia your friend, make DuckDuckGo (Linux-focussed search) get a real name



#18 rp88

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 12:39 PM

"Simply create a policy/group policy that prevents applications from executing from anywhere on the machine, excepting Program folders and Windows folders. Malware invariably runs from a temp location in the first instance..."

Shame that the nromal version of windows doesn't have gpedit, only the pro version has it. Also when programs update themselves (i've noticed it when i update vlc) they often download their new installer into a temp or appdata folder, you would need to be able to allow programs to run from thier under some circumstances after triple approval from the user or something.

Edited by rp88, 18 November 2014 - 12:40 PM.

Back on this site, for a while anyway, been so busy the last year.

My systems:2 laptops, intel i3 processors, windows 8.1 installed on the hard-drive and linux mint 17.3 MATE installed to USB

#19 NickAu

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 02:29 PM

 

For those who absolutely need MS Office, there's WINE to handle it

How To Install Microsoft Office 2010 In Ubuntu With Wine - Linux

 

.

 

@ Cat those links do not open here, I click the link and get the loading page thing then nothing the page wont load.


Edited by NickAu1, 18 November 2014 - 06:06 PM.


#20 Crazy Cat

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 08:12 PM

Thanks Crazy Cat, where's Wild Eagle?

I ate him with some fava beans and a nice chianti.


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Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. ― Albert Einstein ― Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

 

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#21 JohnnyJammer

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 09:05 PM

rp88 just set the permissions on %appdata% or %localapdpata% and or %tmp%.

 

Good discussions but as some of you may know, MAC's and Linux are still incredibly exploitable as we have seen this year with over 220 thousand (From memory) linux servers being pwned.

It all comes down to numbers, for windows its just simple so many of them the returns from exploiting the OS are far better gains.

 

Nothing is %100, i have mentioned before that you dont even need power pluged in to spread malware through the speakers, bios malware, gpu malware, mbr malware and every other type.

Exploit kits are getting very advanced these days and we only see what is released, anyone who reads krebbs on security would see the black market is massive.

 

Also if you want to explopit any operating system,ios,router,switch just cal the FBI or NSA and ask politeley for a zer0 day exploit.

 

 

Also on a  side note, Troy Hunt offeres some great articles/blogs as well and teaches you simple hacks which you then learn from and take the knowledge and create your own best security practices either at work or home.

He even has a fake website that you can hack!



#22 Stolen

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 09:09 PM

 

Hey Stolen, nice to "see" you again, don't be a stranger. When you talk to your IT guys ask them also if they have considered Linux as a part of their Risk Management for Mission-Critical processes? And let us know yes or no, and why? Ta (thanks in Aussie).

 

I have indeed done so, Wiz. I shall keep you posted. 

 

Now....tell me how you say "you're very welcome" in Aussie?? lol...you guys rawk. 

 

Ta. 



#23 NickAu

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 09:33 PM


 

Good discussions but as some of you may know, MAC's and Linux are still incredibly exploitable as we have seen this year with over 220 thousand (From memory) linux servers being pwned.

It all comes down to numbers, for windows its just simple so many of them the returns from exploiting the OS are far better gains.

 

Nothing is %100, i have mentioned before that you dont even need power pluged in to spread malware through the speakers, bios malware, gpu malware, mbr malware and every other type.

Exploit kits are getting very advanced these days and we only see what is released, anyone who reads krebbs on security would see the black market is massive.

+1,

Some Linux users think they are indestructible, Especially on some Linux forums where if a novice comes in asking if they are infected because rkhunter or similar said so, They are basically called crazy and given reasons as to  why some Linux Geek thinks they are not.

 

Having said that. I do not bother using any antivirus on Linux, Cant see the point, No antivirus software that I know would protect you from the bash exploit for example.

However, Using a firewall,  would  protect you against unknowingly running an Internet-facing service that could have been used to exploit the vulnerability.

 

To enable the firewall in Buntu based distro's( Not enabled by default) open terminal and type.

sudo ufw enable

This will start UFW and create a script that will start it each time your PC boots.

 

 

EDIT

This only applies to LINUX,  Windows users ...... Well you use Windows and just turning on the PC is a risk.

 

Using No Antivirus in Linux is a personal choice.

 

Each Linux PC user should audit their PC usage and make  decision based on that.

 

PS.

What's a virus? I had one of them once..... Doctor gave me some pill's a few days bed rest and I was well. ( Linux users will get the joke )


Edited by NickAu1, 18 November 2014 - 11:10 PM.


#24 cat1092

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 11:12 PM

 

 

For those who absolutely need MS Office, there's WINE to handle it

How To Install Microsoft Office 2010 In Ubuntu With Wine - Linux

 

.

 

@ Cat those links do not open here, I click the link and get the loading page thing then nothing the page wont load.

 

 

Nick, seems like I posted this prior in the Live Linux section (or maybe in the main one), you were able to grab the software, though this has been sometime back. The links may be primarily for US users, there's others had been to get the software outside the borders.

 

It is distributed by the US Air Force, a military branch of the US government, so they may have a blacklist as to which regions can & cannot have this media. It would be great for a 3rd party site whom hosts LInux software to host the downloads, and would provide for free promotion for the distro. Or maybe the US Air Force computer labs doesn't want that kind of attention. Originally, this was an unexpected or accidental discovery by be. 

 

Wait, it is featured on DistroWatch, and there's more than one link for the LIve software, though for whatever reason, not many downloads. Possibly because some may see it as suspicious, but I was making transactions with this long ago, in fact, was the deal bracker in me not using Windows for transactions any longer.

 

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=lps

 

Speaking of security, how is it that Java can install itself on a Windows uninvited, show as being up to date, and no way to uninstall it? In my case, it's on a Windows 7 install, but it wouldn't happen on a LInux one. Because a password would be required. 

 

It so happens that despite several scanners has shown that Windows install as "clean", I feel it's dirty & a huge security risk because the latest Java is installed. Again, I didn't agree to install Java & haven't since early to mid 2012. I'll get this thing right, even if I have to nuke the install, which I have no hesitancy in doing. Seems like there would be a clear uninstall path, which Linux provides through their Software or Package Manager.

 

Linux doesn't allow backdoors for the installation of piggybacking software. And no unwanted Toolbars to spy on it's users. Why can't the other brands do the same? :exclame:

 

 

Windows users ...... Well you use Windows and just turning on the PC is a risk.

Very True words spoken. It didn't have to be that way, and shouldn't have, but mix in a tight "buddy system", engineers making 6 figure salaries & working half the day, playing golf the rest, huge company hosted parties across the world, at some point the laziness factor will kick in.

 

Even the new Windows 10 Previews are not only released in ancient 32 bit version, but also allows for the enabling of .NET 2.0 & 3.5, with a couple of clicks. MS has no intentions on burning the bridges of the past & forcing developers to build their software around the .NET Framework 4.5.2 standard, instead allowing .NET Framework 2 to be used (introduced at the peak of Windows 2000 Professional time frame). How are it's customers supposed to stay secure when Microsoft engineers won't let go of the past? They (MS) are in a superb position to armtwist 3rd party developers & OEM's into submission to comply or else, and are exerting little, if any, of that power, towards anyone.

 

Cat


Edited by cat1092, 18 November 2014 - 11:28 PM.

Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 


#25 NickAu

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 11:23 PM

 

The links may be primarily for US users,

Its Ok I will stick with Puppy ( Developed by an Australian ) LOL.



#26 cat1092

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 12:21 AM

Nothing wrong with sticking with what works, my concerns are for those who lacks Linux skills, and having an easy to use, bootable Linux CD, with a browser ready to go in less than a minute to make secure transactions. Many of which has probably used LInux media for other things, such as partitioning & backup recovery/rescue media, utilities to secure erase SSD's, a few of which contains a LIve LInux inside (Partition Magic does).

 

Puppy is good for more techinical users, not as friendly for the novice, or even some long term users of other Linux distros. At least two of these (Ubuntu & Linux MInt) has two supported Xfce install media options in Xubuntu 12.04 & 14.04, and MInt 13 & 17, which doubles as a bootable DVD for secure banking & making transactions, and 512MiB RAM is plenty. My main desktop runs Linux MInt 17 MATE 64 bit & uses less than 700MiB at idle, so Xfce media is perfect, except those who needs LibreOffice. In that case, a full version Ubuntu, Linux MInt, or other LInux install media will do & would still use less than 1GiB RAM at idle.

 

Linux is the answer for secure browsing & transaction making, as well as the other things we do on the Internet.

 

Cat


Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 


#27 wizardfromoz

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 02:24 AM

Stolen – Mate I'll send yer a PM Ron (you'll understand on reading) to keep this spot on-topic, ta for the input, keep it comin'. BTW had to Google up RAWK, didn't know that un, so we're square. In brief, though – “she's sweet”, “sweet”, “no worries”, “no wuckers” are just a few. … see yer Ron

 

 

 

Hi JohhnyJammer, we haven't met before but thanks for the input. I DO have input to provide with regard to YOUR input, but as a fellow Aussie I expect you will appreciate that I am not “bagging you” personally, but rather just “throwing it out there”, so that our readers can benefit from a fuller knowledge.

 

 

 

… with over 220 thousand (From memory) linux servers being pwned*

 

That was the figure speculated, just before end of September.

 

But what we hear now is very little.

 

Our own NickAu1 had a Topic up on 25 September, found here, http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/549614/bug-in-bash-shell-creates-big-security-hole-on-anything-with-nix-in-it/?hl=%20bash%20%20bug , and brought us daily news, on the “Bash Bug” aka “Shellshock”, which related to The BASH (Bourne Again Shell), underlying Linux.

 

Seeing Nick's Topic, I was in the midst of penning a request to Admin to put something on our Front Page News, administered by Grinler, but 10 mins before I could finish, it was up there. Our people here at this site, both Admin and our Brains Trust of volunteer Members, are spot on.

 

Further, the bigger Linux Community was all over this like a rat up a drainpipe. Patches were issued within hours, upgrades by all the major Distros, to the BASH, within 24 – 36 hours. Followed by updates sometimes twice a day.

 

The exploitable flaw had actually been around for 18 – 20 years, it seems, and nobody had noticed it. A Frenchman Stephane Chevalas disclosed the flaw, mid-September, and that was when the Black Hats paid attention. Not unlike the Dark Riders suddenly casting their evil eye on the Hobbits in The Shire?

 

Now, it is all done and dusted, and Nick had his Topic closed after 20 days on his request because a) it was all over, and B) the Topic was degrading into chit-chat (myself a guilty party).

 

Sure, there was Heartbleed in April 2014, before my time with Linux began. Two in one year, so far. Count the numbers in Windows, Mac, &c. Look at our site's Front Page News currently. It is not just to do with numbers, Windows became vulnerable once VB Visual Basic was invented. It is fecund target or hive for such assaults.

 

 

 

 

Nothing is 100%

 

I agree, we must be ever vigilant.

 

 

 

i have mentioned before that you dont even need power pluged in to spread malware through the speakers, bios malware, gpu malware, mbr malware and every other type.

 

 

 

You are referring to the “badBIOS” bug of 12 months ago.

 

A Google search of keywords “malware through speakers” reveals many entries. I did not read more than the first two (2) pages but did not see a reference to Linux as being susceptible.

 

A Google search of keywords “badbios hoax” reveals considerably fewer entries but more from more reputable sites. Note that with the first Search, there are little to no references other than from October, November and early December 2013. Why, because it died out?

 

One of the sites that DID report on it during December, found here   – said, in part:

 

 

 

It should be noted that while the malware is dangerous, it requires additional software (like a keylogger) to truly function well. The ability to communicate without an attached payload is of limited use, and high bit error rates and slow transmission speeds hamper any aggressive attempts to attack air-gapped computers.

 

An example of the other side of the coin is from Thad Eirich, software engineer, here.  – in which he says, in part:

 

 

Had this research come from most sources it would have immediately been regarded as a hoax or a vast misinterpretation of data, but it was coming from Dragos Ruiu (probably best known for organizing the first Pwn2Own a few years back).  Ruiu claimed that this malware began infecting his machines 3 years ago, but he only began posting about it (on Twitter & Google+ and Facebook) once he was aware of the BIOS/audio components. ArsTechnica picked the story up and pretty soon Bruce Schneier was even blogging about it.  After a couple of weeks of scrutiny from the netsec community, a lot of questions came out about the legitimacy of his claims.  There is still some debate, but it seems to me it was (very) throughly debunked here.  There’s even been some deflated tweets from Ruiu of late, followed by replies of layman suggestions which make me glad my doctor doesn’t tweet my diagnosis.

 

Eirich's article was written last February, but updated late September just passed.

 

The “throughly(sic) debunked” reference is here:

 

Enough said on this matter, I think for the moment. I am happy to provide a link from this Topic to another topic that might be started, if you, JohhnyJammer, or others wish to continue the debate.

 

BTW JohnnyJammer, you yourself said here,  in part, on 23rd May :

 

 

 

ClamAV was never meant to be distributed with Distro's as such (I can remember using it back in 2004), it started for email servers as a backend scanner.

Like Nick said "Secure your browser with things like NoScript, AddBlock, PopUpBlocker, and you will be fine.", this also applies to Windows and pretty mjuch any device it will run on as well.

 

One of the main vectors for targeting mac, windows, unix/linux is browser based these days (Java applets, flash player object injection). Java had its trouble last year which effected all operating systems and devices.

Android seems to be gettign a flogging latley because its so widely used, remember the more people use a particular item the more it will be targeted.

 

In the long run, if you host a service which is exposed to the internet you will see how many bots target particular operating systems.

if you dont use flash, java, any plugin on browsers and dont downlaod malware riddles games you are generally fine.

With he help of modern day modem/routers (Using ipchains to filter traffic along with NAT), its pretty hard to get passed as you are not directly hooked up to the net.

 

I agree with the up and down sides of that thread. Linux will be more targeted. But it is way more secure.

Have to go soon, but in around 15 - 18 hours I'll be back with more. If I can quote myself before I go, with this, from above:

 

I would ask of you, and others of our Brains Trust, to apply the following with this Topic:

 

If you include a quote, not your own, just also provide a reference to the Source. It does not have to be the Link, as long as it is verified, I will adopt the same approach.

I would extend that to include the making of assertions, that is, provide backup to your claims, particularly of the scarey variety. Research, research, research.

Tomorrow I will have some very, intensely, incredibly ... boring ... screenshots to show you, but which I will be using to illustrate a point of difference between the Windows environment and Linux. I believe I can validate that it is on topic.

 

 

GLOSSARY

 

*pwned – a Gamer term of Internet slang. Meaning - “owned”, “taken over”, in this case “compromised, we now own your server”

 

:wizardball: Wizard

Edit 1 - removed unnecessary link

Edit 2 - removed unnecessary link, corrected typos


Edited by wizardfromoz, 19 November 2014 - 04:37 PM.


#28 Al1000

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 02:22 PM

The safest way I know to do banking and shopping online is by using Puppy Linux on CD,

Me too. While larger Linux distros would theoretically be just as secure, when run off a DVD/CD, the amount of time they would take to boot up would make using them for this purpose impracticable. Whereas Puppy is so small, that it boots from CD about as quickly as larger operating systems boot from HDD.

Unless a computer was to catch a virus in between the time that it boots up, and the user logs onto an internet bank or shopping account, I don't see how it's possible for any malware to get in the way - so to speak.

Coincidentally, my bank phoned me yesterday, advising me that they had reset my internet banking password, and gave me a new one-time use password that would enable me to log on and set a new password. They also advised me that before logging on, I should do a full malware and virus scan on all devices that I use to connect to internet banking.

I tried to explain that I only use a live Linux CD and that it could not become infected unless I save something to it, and that it was probably me using netstat (which for those who aren't familiar with it: it displays the IP addresses of servers that your computer is connected to) when I was logged onto my internet bank account, causing the bank's software to detect 'unusual' software running on my computer when it asked the bank's server for its IP address; but the guy who phoned me was only passing on the message and didn't have a clue what I was talking about.

But it just goes to show that you can be too careful; I must remember not to run netstat when I'm logged into my internet bank account.

Edited by Al1000, 19 November 2014 - 02:26 PM.


#29 JohnnyJammer

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 07:04 PM

Im well aware of the shell shock exploit/vuln wizard mate.

I actually wrote my own variant after seeing it implemented through HTTP headers, lets just say i could have some serious fun!.

 

The word pwn is funny and makes me laugh (Im just a big kid :P), i use it when gaming actually LOL and people understand not to be talking smack otherwise i do pwn them (I love the "You have my IP well try and hack me" after a successfull breach of their mum/dads modem then shut their mouth really quickly after telling them what their ISP password is!.).

You just need to ask some of the little ozzy kids after i mutilated ones NAS to the extend of him crying on the mic because he lost his 12 terabytes of movies!

 

I dont condone such things and it will only happen if/when the curcumstance arises.

 

 

Now back to the topic, i do like linux (Aint used many mac's) but like i said nothing is %100 secure (When you control the hardware instruction set, the OS becomes yours).

I refuse to use an iphone or android.

If you like good reading material about in depth analysis of exploitation and just really good website mate then i would suggest visiting welivesecurity()com, run by researches at ESET alogn with contributers as well.

 

Anyway back to the grind!



#30 NickAu

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 08:10 PM

 

I dont condone such things and it will only happen if/when the curcumstance arises.

Same here.


Edited by NickAu1, 19 November 2014 - 08:58 PM.





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