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About the windows 8 and 8.1 lifecycle, contradictory info


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#1 rp88

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 06:25 AM

So in april this year xp had it's end of support (rest in peace XP), when does this happen to windows 8 and what does 8.1 have to do with it. The windows website seems to be as badly layed out as is possible in this regard and the few pages with this info are pretty hard to make sense of, references to all kinds of dates and then to time periods with starting and finishing points that seem to contradict each other. things about there being 24 months from "end of general availability" to the end of the 8.1 upgrade offer, but their website says "general availability" for windows 8 (not 8.1) ended in october 2012, hence suggesting that in october this year either the "upgrade to 8.1" spam will stop, or that in October this year windows 8 stops getting updates, or maybe something else, the table showing it was so badly arranged with conflicting data that it was pretty incomprehensible. then there are mentions of january 2016 and january 2018, are those the "death" (end of security updates) of 8 or of 8.1. i couldn't make head, tail or any other anatomical part of the info they gave. does anyone know clearly absolute dates of when:

a  ) the "free upgrade" to 8.1 offer becomes a "pay to upgrade" spam prompt

b  ) the security updates for 8 end, like they did for xp in april 

c  ) the security updates for 8.1 end 

d  ) when any other key dates are

e  ) if there is something this october that i need worry about

f  ) on what date will windows 8 "need" to become 8.1 to keep up security updates

g  ) if the 8.1 upgrade will be brutally forced upon users of 8

 

thank you

signed

a user who has learnt to love windows 8 as it currently is


Edited by rp88, 23 August 2014 - 09:05 AM.

Back on this site, for a while anyway, been so busy the last year.

My systems:2 laptops, intel i3 processors, windows 8.1 installed on the hard-drive and linux mint 17.3 MATE installed to USB

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#2 gigahurtz

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 07:56 AM

So in april this year xp had it's end of support (rest in peace XP), when does this happen to windows 8 and what does 8.1 have to do with it. The windows website seems to be as badly layed out as is possible in this regard and the few pages with this info are pretty hard to make sense of, references to all kinds of dates and then to time periods with starting and finishing points that seem to contradict each other. things about there being 24 months from "end of general availability" to the end of the 8.1 upgrade offer, but their website says "general availability" for windows 8 (not 8.1) ended in october 2012, hence suggesting that in october this year either the "upgrade to 8.1" spam will stop, or that in October this year windows 8 stops getting updates, or maybe something else, the table showing it was so badly arranged with conflicting data that it was pretty incomprehensible. then there are mentions of january 2016 and january 2018, are those the "death" (end of security updates) of 8 or of 8.1. i couldn't make head, tail or any other anatomical part of the info they gave. does anyone know clearly absolute dates of when:

a) the "free upgrade" to 8.1 offer becomes a "pay to upgrade" spam prompt

B) the security updates for 8 end, like they did for xp in april 

c) the security updates for 8.1 end 

d) when any other key dates are

e) if there is something this october that i need worry about

f) on what date will windows 8 "need" to become 8.1 to keep up security updates

g) if the 8.1 upgrade will be brutally forced upon users of 8

 

thank you

signed

a user who has learnt to love windows 8 as it currently is

 

Here is a table showing end of support for all Windows products that are primarily used:

 

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle

 

As you can see, extended end of support for Windows 8 & 8.1 is January 10th, 2023. You have quite some time to go.



#3 rp88

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 09:04 AM

thanks but that page is one of the rather unclear descriptions. it doesn't give any good indication whether that 2023 date is end of life for windows 8 or whether the 8.1 "upgrade" would be wanted before then. it describes 8.1 as a "service pack" but i always thought it was a new operating system entirely (albeit one built upon similar architecture to windows 8). there is nothing clear about when, if ever, a change from 8 to 8.1 is needed and there is no true indication of whether the 10th jan 2023 refers to the end of windows 8 or 8.1, the table is ambiguous enough for it to mean either.

what about the other questions.

thanks


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My systems:2 laptops, intel i3 processors, windows 8.1 installed on the hard-drive and linux mint 17.3 MATE installed to USB

#4 SpywareDoc

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 09:09 AM

Microsoft Support Lifecycle Policy FAQ



#5 rp88

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 09:24 AM

that still doesn't answer it. i don't know if a successor has been released, i don't know what would count as a successor anyway, i don't know how 8.1 is classed ( a successor , a service pack, an update?)  and i don't know what they are classing as the release dates. the key thing i'm trying to find out, when does windows 8 (NOT 8.1) reach it's end is not answered on any of the pages, all they do is self reference each other and go into loops of links that end where you started. futhermore the policy page mostly refers to the business editions of various products and still has loads of holes as to the whens of this matter. they seem to only want to talk about 8.1 on their support pages and much of the stuff is tucked behind some rubbish about logging into a microsoft account.


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#6 cmptrgy

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 10:22 AM

rp88, I’m just as confused as you are as the 8.1 “phenomenon” just isn’t clear by whatever M$FT or Windows 8 Forum or any other “relative” websites provide

--- Your issue as well as mine is: When did/does Windows 8.1 update become “necessary”; as well as so many unclear explanations

 

Before I move on with some comments; if your computer is still on Windows 8, consider checking your Windows Updates history and see when was the last time security updates were installed

--- If you are willing to do that, I'd be interested in knowing what you find out

 

Moving on, I’m recording the following information the way I understand it in hopes a technically true answer is forthcoming; what hurts is I don’t have any confidence in M$FT clarifying anything on this matter in simple terms on the applicable dates.

 

Dates of general availability: Windows 8 Oct 26, 2012 / Windows 8.1 Oct 18, 2013

24 months from "end of general availability": Windows 8 Oct 26, 2014 / Windows 8.1 Oct 18, 2015

--- I have no idea as to whether or not or how 24 months from "end of general availability” apply or even matter when it comes to Windows 8 and I wouldn’t even take that into consideration unless there’s an outstanding reason to do so

 

Both versions EOL are Jan 10, 2023

--- That tells me those who do not update to 8.1 accordingly per M$FT, are running Windows 8 without Windows Security Updates and will be doing so until EOL if they continue to with Windows 8

--- To me, that is unacceptable

 

On the update of Windows 8 to Windows 8.1, if my memory serves me correctly, Windows 8 users were supposed to update to Windows 8.1 sometime in May 2014, but were given a “reprieve” for an additional month into June 2014

--- Oh yes, the updates are free. Thank you MSFT, they’re free? Wow, why shouldn’t they be?

 

Now I don’t have Windows 8 yet but I want to be able to explain to Windows 8 users I help what the real story is so it’s understandable. Why? Because I’m getting blank looks when I try to help them out. BTW, I set up a Windows 8.1 laptop a friend of mine just bought about 6 weeks ago; it went flawlessly and still runs flawlessly

--- One of these days maybe I’ll get a chance to find out whether or not it has already updated to 8.1.1

 

On upgrades and other confusing dates I suspect they apply to those who want to upgrade from XP, I suppose also Vista.

--- In other words, they are not updates in those cases

--- It also appears to me that’s when it costs $$$

--- I think it’s because M$FT wants to discourage such upgrades

--- I didn’t technically look it up again but that’s what I recall was being reported when I did look it up some time ago; however, I wouldn’t even consider taking on such a situation even from a best friend

 

If I can ever find clarifications on what you and I are wondering about, I'll be glad to post them



#7 SpywareDoc

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 02:41 PM

Microsoft will soon be moving to a fee-based subscription model, at some small amount per year -- say $29 -- for "Windows" (no version number) with no-mess, no-fuss auto-updates. You simply jump on the "Windows" bandwagon whenever you like. (Or not. :))



#8 rp88

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 12:07 PM

cmptrgy,

my latest security updates were august (the second tuesday of the month). since these i have set the updates to check automatically but not download without my say so, i don't want 8.1 forced on me. i can also tell you that although there is still a stupid little thing in the "metro" personality of my computer i have not had a full intrusive "upgrade" or "bug me later" UAC style(i have nothing against uac, i think it's a great idea, i'm just saying this pop up did what it does and covered the screen until an option was selected) prompt for a few months. other things you might like to know are: i tried contacting m$ through various badly designed options on their badly layed out website and reached a "liveperson online chat" facility eventually. i asked them and they gave cryptic answers before quickly disconnecting themselves before i could finish my questions. i also put a gmail reply onto the end of an ancient email thread i managed to have with someone from m$, i don't know if it would get seen this late after the conversation otherwise ended but the bloke i had emails with may receive it some time next week. 

 

spyware doc,

are they plotting to do this to current users of existing operating systems or is it a cruel trick they are planning for their next generation of operating systems which have yet to be released at all? it sounds a very dark and shady move and i bet it would be coupled with: a closed app store(as in the os protests about use of any exe file downloaded from the normal internet), a loss of the true desktop, an ugly new interface( big pics but very little functionality, like the current windows 8 metro and bbc iplayer interfaces) and a few fancy looking touches to please those who see computers as fashion accessories not as useful tools for DOING THE USER'S BIDDING. just look at the ads(we've had them around in the uk for a few months) for windows phones where some woman tries to describe what the processor does and then just reverts to "it's really quick".


Back on this site, for a while anyway, been so busy the last year.

My systems:2 laptops, intel i3 processors, windows 8.1 installed on the hard-drive and linux mint 17.3 MATE installed to USB

#9 cmptrgy

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 05:10 PM

"my latest security updates were august (the second tuesday of the month"

--- Are you sure you do not have Windows 8.1?

--- According to the information I tried to make sense of, if you do not have Windows 8.1, you shouldn't be receiving Security Updates

--- According to what I found, the proper way to determine whether or not you have Windows 8 or 8.1 is to check your PC Info

--- Go to Which Windows operating system am I running?

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/which-operating-system

 

As I have stated, I do not have Windows 8 yet

--- But if you are receiving Security Updates you either have Windows 8.1 or my attempted explanations are completely wrong 

--- If my attempted explanations are wrong, I'll have to accept I don't understand it yet either but just work with whatever version of Windows 8 is actually on the computers I work on

 

"i don't want 8.1 forced on me"

--- I understand that in principle but now I'm wondering if it's an automatic Windows Update in/after June 2014

 

I have a friend who has Windows 8 and I know she would not update to 8.1 on her own

--- She moved to a new house about 6 weeks ago but couldn't connect to the Internet because she has a new ISP in her new area

--- She hasn't used her computer in her new house since then but did call me to let me know she will request my help when she's ready to start using it again

--- I can't wait


Edited by cmptrgy, 24 August 2014 - 05:11 PM.


#10 rp88

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 05:46 PM

the link you provide indeed tells me i am running windows 8 (not 8.1) but gives me a spammy little note on the page and across the bottom of the page telling me " a new version is available". any info i can find on my system also says this is proper 8, not 8.1. i think your ideas on what is going on must be a little off, but it's not like m$ has made it easy for us to find out the situation. windows 8.1 certainly hasn't happened to me yet and at present i am up to date.


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#11 cmptrgy

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 07:23 PM

Thanks rp88. Since you are receiving Windows Security updates while you still have Windows 8 my attempts to figure out timetables are far off. So now when Windows 8 doesn't receive Windows Security updates still needs to be determined 

 

Maybe the 24 months from "end of general availability" to

Dates of general availability: Windows 8 Oct 26, 2012 / Windows 8.1 Oct 18, 2013

which would become Windows 8 Oct 26, 2014 / Windows 8.1 Oct 18, 2015

 

In my case as I work on people's computers, when that date arrives, I will suggest they do update to 8.1 as I don't think it will be a good idea to run an "unsecured" OS until 2023

I didn't keep track of where I read it but I vaguely remember readung that Windows 8.1 will become an automatic Windows Update



#12 pahutch13

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 09:14 PM

So in april this year xp had it's end of support (rest in peace XP), when does this happen to windows 8 and what does 8.1 have to do with it. The windows website seems to be as badly layed out as is possible in this regard and the few pages with this info are pretty hard to make sense of, references to all kinds of dates and then to time periods with starting and finishing points that seem to contradict each other. things about there being 24 months from "end of general availability" to the end of the 8.1 upgrade offer, but their website says "general availability" for windows 8 (not 8.1) ended in october 2012, hence suggesting that in october this year either the "upgrade to 8.1" spam will stop, or that in October this year windows 8 stops getting updates, or maybe something else, the table showing it was so badly arranged with conflicting data that it was pretty incomprehensible. then there are mentions of january 2016 and january 2018, are those the "death" (end of security updates) of 8 or of 8.1. i couldn't make head, tail or any other anatomical part of the info they gave. does anyone know clearly absolute dates of when:

a  ) the "free upgrade" to 8.1 offer becomes a "pay to upgrade" spam prompt  (I don't know the answer to this, not going to attempt to answer)

b  ) the security updates for 8 end, like they did for xp in april (It appears you answered this question yourself already: their website says "general availability" for windows 8 (not 8.1) ended in october 2012)

c  ) the security updates for 8.1 end (From the microsoft website: "End of support refers to the date when Microsoft no longer provides automatic fixes, updates, or online technical assistance. This is the time to make sure you have the latest available update or service pack installed. Without Microsoft support, you will no longer receive security updates that can help protect your PC from harmful viruses, spyware, and other malicious software that can steal your personal information. Based on the table below this paragraph, the end of support for windows 8, the update or service pack 8.1 is January 9, 2018 end of extended support, January 10, 2023)

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle

 

d  ) when any other key dates are

e  ) if there is something this october that i need worry about

f  ) on what date will windows 8 "need" to become 8.1 to keep up security updates

g  ) if the 8.1 upgrade will be brutally forced upon users of 8

 

thank you

signed

a user who has learnt to love windows 8 as it currently is

 

I attempted to answer your questions in a different font color of your post.

I am not proclaiming to know the information. I have read your question(s) and tried to answer to the best of my ability based on the information I have read from the other posts/links to the microsoft website.

I used to have 8, but upgraded to 8.1, last year, just because I read an article relating to the importance of upgrading to 8.1. I don't remember it, but I do know it was from CNET I believe. 

After upgrading to 8.1 I didn't really notice much difference in how my computer operated (it is not a touchscreen) and the layout appears to be pretty much the same. One thing I did notice is that it pretty much requires you to create a log on password when your computer is shut down or reboots.  There is a work around this. I think I found it on this website/or either google the info. If you don't want to have a password upon rebooting, I would suggest finding the work around and having available, should you ever decide to update to 8.1.

To me, from the table on the lifecycle fact sheet link that was posted, 8.1 is like the service pack for 8, just like previous operating versions (xp or 7). I could be wrong.

Regards

Paula



#13 rp88

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 10:22 AM

windows 8.1 demands using a m$ account though rather than a local user account, doesn't it? 

the "upgrade" also uninstalls all your proper(desktop exe file) programs, i don't know if all of them would reinstall successfully, i run several programs on here that were on my xp machine (as in i copied the installer exe file from the xp machine and ran it on the windows 8 machine to put the program onto here).what's more i have no installation media(exe files or cd s) for some other (paid) programs that run on the windows 8 and one or two other programs were a nightmare to get working on here in the first place. on top of that i have no idea if my hadrware will be capable of running 8.1, it works fine with 8 but i've heard so many reports of the 8.1 upgrade being disastrous. if 8 stops getting security updates i'll be in a very nasty position, between running an unsupported OS and an "upgrade" that may affect important functions. 

pahutch13, your conclusions seem clear yet other things m$ have said contradict them.

a   ) they declined to commnet on themselves

b   )there are also dates in 2015 and 2016 flying around, a big long table on their site http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/default.aspx?LN=en-gb&x=12&y=11&c2=16796  talks of a 2016 date for "service pack support end date" on it's top line, once again mentioning a "24 months after general availability" date though. some places say general availability was october 2013, but windows 8 was still a very new product then, and my computer was bought then with windows 8 pre-installed, you would think manufacturers would not be selling a machine with an OS that needed upgrading after 2(if ge was 2013) or 1 (if ge was 2012) years.

c  )that shows "8&8.1" end in 2018-2023 but it doesn't distinguish between the two OS s, it could mean both last until then, it could mean only 8.1 lasts until then. it doesn't clarify that.

 

i wish,as do we all, that m$ would give straight answers not riddles.


Back on this site, for a while anyway, been so busy the last year.

My systems:2 laptops, intel i3 processors, windows 8.1 installed on the hard-drive and linux mint 17.3 MATE installed to USB

#14 jonuk76

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 10:43 AM

windows 8.1 demands using a m$ account though rather than a local user account, doesn't it?

 

Not if you install from a Windows 8.1 disk and give the installer no internet access (as I did).  It defaulted to a local user account.  It will stay that way unless you take up the "offer" to change to a MS account which will be made when you attempt to download anything from the App Store.  Note they really seem to want to have you login via an MS account, so it's written in very small font, but you can decline the "offer" and continue using the local account, while still accessing stuff on the App Store.  Not interested in the App Store, then you probably won't ever get prompted to change to a MS account.

 

The situation may well be different if you upgrade from 8 to 8.1 through the App Store.  Downloading anything from the app store requires logging in through an MS account, as far as I know.  However I'm also under the impression (which may be incorrect) that due to relatively low success of the App Store upgrade, they started distributing the 8.1 upgrade through Windows Update (as per service packs in previous versions of Windows).  Windows Update does not need an MS account of any type.

 

If anyone does find themselves with an MS Account in Windows 8.1 and they'd rather have a normal local account, here is how to do it - http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/windows-and-office/quick-tip-change-microsoft-live-to-a-local-account-in-windows-81/


Edited by jonuk76, 25 August 2014 - 10:47 AM.

7sbvuf-6.png


#15 rockysosua

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 08:00 PM

windows 8.1 demands using a m$ account though rather than a local user account, doesn't it? 

the "upgrade" also uninstalls all your proper(desktop exe file) programs,

When you do the upgrade, you get to a window that asks you to sign in and it shows no option for a local account, however if you choose the option to create a new account, on the subsequent page you will see the option for continuing with your local account.

In other words, they hid it as well as can be, but it is there.

As for losing desktop programs, you will not lose anything.

There was a trial version of 8.1 that was available before the actual release, and it would wipe out all the desktop programs but retained the Metro apps.


All is well in Paradise.




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