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Will not boot


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#1 Bluegrassdude

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 01:37 PM

Anything I can do at home to tell which component is bad? Does it sound like the motherboard? How can I test it?

HP Pavilion p7-1420t PC
Foxconn HP-Joshua-H-JOSHUA-H61-uATX
Intel Core i5-3330 3.0G 6M 77W CPU
6GB DDR3-1600 DIMM (4+2) RAM
Intel HD Graphics (Sandy Bridge)
Window 8.1 64-bit
purchased 12/12

My 12-yr old son reported that computer would not start while I was traveling last week. The computer is shut down every night. Last Wednesday, a black screen with blue HP logo was as far as it would get during startup. I looked at it today. The computer powers up and the hard drive spins for about 1 second with the yellow hard drive light illuminated then fading. No beeps. The fans continue to run. The wired keyboard does not seem to have power as no key lock lights illuminate. I tried all USB ports. I tried start up with the F2, F8 F12, delete and esc keys pressed independtly and together, anyway, with no effect. I also tried a wireless keyboard in all USB ports with no effect either. The keybords work when attached to a laptop. The HP logo comes up instantly as the computer is powered up but that is the extent of the startup. The monitor is a lenovo so its not the monitor screen. I have an image of the screen if there is a way to post it. I have also pulled and reset the RAM and removed and replaced the BIOS battery. USB ports not hot. This computer has given us no problems other than being Win 8 OS...lol. It has never blue screened. I have Norton 360 which runs every 3 days because of the kids using it while I travel and I run Windows Defender once monthly. There is no recent history of viruses or any application or other downloads or any external/internal component additions recently. All significant software is up to date.

Thank you!

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#2 zingo156

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 03:13 PM

Let's try to get into the bios, any piece of hardware can slow down or prevent successful post. From your description the computer is getting stuck at what is called the post splash screen (hp screen).

 

Open your computer case and disconnect the hard drive and dvd drive, you can simply unplug the sata cables from the dvd drive end and hard drive end or the mainboard. Then try to power on the computer and see if it will go past the post screen to the bios screen, I believe with HP the bios button is esc or F9. If you can successfully get into the bios screen, shut down the computer, plug the hard drive back in and power on again, if you get stuck at the post screen with it plugged in, you may have a failed hard drive.

 

If nothing changes with the hard drive and dvd drive disconnected, power off the machine and remove 1 of your sticks of ram. Try the single stick in all slots by itself, if you still can not get passed the post splash screen, remove that stick and replace it with your second stick, try your second stick in all of the slots by itself.

 

At this point if you still get stuck at the splash screen, remove all non essential hardware from the computer, dvd drives, hard drives, wireless cards, pci cards, etc, leave only the motherboard, cpu, cpu cooler, 1 stick of ram in 1 slot, the power supply plugged into only the mainboard (both 24 pin and 4 pin connections) and the video card (if you have motherboard video use that only and remove any add in video card). Now power on the computer and see if you can get passed the splash screen and into the bios. If you can, any of the components you have removed may be causing the issue, you can re-connect them 1 at a time then re-power and see if the problem returns.

 

While you have the computer case open inspect the motherboard for blown or bulging capacitors examples: https://www.google.com/search?q=blown+or+bulging+capacitors&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=yTrhU8ntGpazyATbooKACw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1440&bih=766


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#3 Bluegrassdude

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 07:53 PM

Thanks Zingo. I had to leave town and will be back on Saturday. I will do all the above and let you know. That's exactly what I was looking for in trying to trouble shoot the problem.

#4 Bluegrassdude

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 08:27 PM

Zingo

I went through all the steps with no change...black screen with HP logo and no beeps.  I disconnected the power to the mother board and tried a different power source from another computer that I have and it gave me the same thing. When I plugged the HP powere source back in I got nothing. There is a green light on the back of the power sourche that is lit but nothing happens when I press the power button, no beeps, no fans no screen. I tried the other power source again and the same thing...nothing. I don't have another CPU to try. I have a AMD athelon CPU from another computer but don't know if that would be compatible with my system. It has an i5 3330 CPU in it. Any way, now I can't get power at all.



#5 Bluegrassdude

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 08:39 PM

I did a CMOS jumper reset and the fans now power up and the screen is black with the HP logo just like before.



#6 Bluegrassdude

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 09:55 PM

Update with everything I have tried.

 

The monitor is not completely black, it has the HP logo. There was a startup beep but now there is not. The computer is not under warrantly. I went through all the steps with no change...black screen with HP logo, no key lock light on keyboard and no beeps except for removing the RAM. I removed each RAM card and tried them in each slot. All with no change. When I remove both RAM cards, I get an error beep sequence with a yellow flashing light at the power button. All subsequent test were done with the 4GB RAM card installed. The CMOS jumper was not near the battery but I found it and there was no effect with reset. I disconnected each peripheral individually and then all of them with no effect. The capacitors all look ok. I disconnected the power to the mother board and tried a different power source from another computer that I have and it gave me the same thing. I do have another CPU to try. I have a AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800 CPU from another computer but don't know if that would be compatible with my system. It has an Intel i5 3330 CPU in it. I don't have any thermal paste so not sure I should try if it is compatible. I could always get some paste.



#7 zingo156

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 07:07 AM

They are not compatible cpu's. If you have tried all of the above options (sounds like you have) with no change. Then it is time to start replacing parts. Since you have already tried another psu, and because you get the HP slash screen it sounds like the psu is working. At this point my guess would be motherboard or cpu, since motherboards fail far more frequently than cpu's that would be where I would start (if it was in my shop I would actually try a different cpu in that motherboard so I didn't have to take it completely apart to test the motherboard). If you buy a generic motherboard you may have to reload windows after replacing it. If you get an exact replacement you may be able to just swap and go. You could take it to a local pc repair shop, they may have spare parts to test with so you don't end up replacing parts and then have the same problem.


Edited by zingo156, 11 August 2014 - 07:13 AM.

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#8 Bluegrassdude

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 08:53 PM

Thanks for your help. I'm going to replace the motherboard. Any suggestions? I would like to upgrade tis rig and plan to upgrade the PSU and add a mid range GPU and a couple case fans with some lights for my son. We plan to use the rig for light gaming and general home computing/internet surfing, music management and still and video image management and mid-level editing. Should I upgrade the CPU (current is i5 3330) as well? Suggestions on a motherboard, PSU and GPU would be appreciated. Want to spend about $400. Hope to be able to use the same case.

#9 zingo156

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 07:28 AM

Can you post the exact model HP this computer is? The case may not support a normal atx board. I am not sure of the form factor. When I know what the case will hold I can send you some links for possible boards. I generally recommend Asus motherboards, I have never had any problems with them.

 

For the gpu it depends on what games you will be playing. Depending on what editing you do you may be better off with nvidia than amd. Older versions of Adobe Premier can use nvidia cards for the rendering process which makes it much faster. Something like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130934&cm_re=760_nvidia-_-14-130-934-_-Product That may be overkill depending on what games are going to be played.

 

For power supplies I recommend Corsair, XFX, EVGA. The wattage needed will depend on the GPU you decide to get. 


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#10 Bluegrassdude

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 07:04 PM

Here are the specs on the computer. I can upload some pics of the case innards if that will help.

HP Pavilion p7-1420t PC C1T74AV#ABA
Foxconn HP-Joshua-H-JOSHUA-H61-uATX
Intel Core i5-3330 3.0G 6M 77W CPU
6GB DDR3-1600 DIMM (4+2) RAM
Intel HD Graphics (Sandy Bridge)
Window 8.1 64-bit
purchased 12/12

 

This build will be used for my son to do some gaming, mostly minecraft with video recording and YouTube uploading and some other mid-high end games as he gets older. I hope this will last him through high school (6 years) so I'm not opposed to spending an extra $25-50 on a GPU now to not have to do it in the next few years. I’d also consider a CPU upgrade as well. He has an Xbox 360 for other gaming stuff. I will use the computer for home stuff mostly with MS Office, internet surfing and still image and video editing/sharing using Photoshop and other editors. I would like to have the 15 in one multimedia card reader and that would be a reason for keeping case but I'm open to a new "cool" case if I can find a multi-media reader to fit esp if it has a windowed panel for the lights. We just upgraded to TWC 30/10 from ATT DSL 6/1. The modem is a SURFboard 6141 and the router is an ASUS RT-N66R N900. I want to maximize those capabilities and the computer will be connected directly to the router through a gigabit Ethernet line.

 

Thanks for all your help.



#11 zingo156

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 11:38 AM

It looks like that is a uATX or Micro ATX motherboard, I would recommend this board: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131856&cm_re=asus_1155-_-13-131-856-_-Product

Also just as a heads up, you may need to reload the operating system after replacing the motherboard, I certainly would recommend it. Also the power button, restart button, front usb case ports and front audio ports may be proprietary which means they may not connect to a standard motherboard. If this is true, a new case would be the next step.

For video cards, personally I would go with Nvidia if you use adobe premier (cs5.5 or older). This is a card I would recommend: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130934&cm_re=760_gtx-_-14-130-934-_-Product

The reason I recommend the squirrel cage type fan is due to your case, if you had more fans the dual fan setup would be better but the squirrel cage or "blower" style fans exhaust most of the heat out of the case rather than spread it around. You can go with a model up such as the 770GTX or 780, the cost goes up quite a bit with those cards.

You will also need a larger PSU in which case I would recommend this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139051&cm_re=corsair_750w_psu-_-17-139-051-_-Product Modular PSU's have less cable mess to deal with but make sure you know what cables go where...

All of those parts may be just above the budget but I do not recommend going cheap with power supplies or any component. You could get by with a video card with less horse power for a while but certainly not 6 years. Even with a 760 or higher the life span of a video card isn't really much more than 3 years. You can use them longer but newer games will struggle on max settings. You can lower settings and then run the games fine.


Edited by zingo156, 13 August 2014 - 11:39 AM.

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#12 Bluegrassdude

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 12:31 PM

What about this?  Here is a system I put together with my son. He likes the case and all the lights and ASUS P8Q77-M/CSM or ASUS P8Z77(has HDMI port) could just drop in for the ASRocks board. What do you think. Hoping to only put about $400 so if I don't get 6 years, I guess thats ok. Just hard to justify more than half the budget on the video card.

 

http://pcpartpicker....de/saved/4cM48d

 

CPU Intel Core i5-3330 3.0GHz Quad-Core (Purchased) $0.00

CPU Cooler Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing $29.98

Motherboard ASRock Z75 Pro3 ATX LGA1155 $66.99

Memory Crucial Ballistix Sport 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 (Purchased) $0.00

               Crucial Ballistix Sport 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 $35.99

Storage Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM (Purchased) $0.00

Video Card EVGA GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB $119.99

Case Zalman ZM-Z9 U3 (Black) ATX Mid Tower $69.58

Power Supply EVGA 500W ATX12V / EPS12V $29.99 Could do modular if easier build and better cable management

Optical Drive HP 447328-B21 DVD/CD Writer (Purchased) $0.00

Operating System Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) (Purchased) $0.00 Lots of people say I will need to buy another copy, why? If the copy I have is not being used.

Case Fan Cooler Master R4-L4S-10AB-GP 60.9 CFM 140mm $9.98

                 Cooler Master R4-L4S-10AB-GP 60.9 CFM 140mm $9.98

Custom Logisys 12" Cold Cathode Case Lights - 2 Piece (Blue) $9.89

WD MyBook 3 TB (Purchased) $0.00

 

Total $380.60

 

Thanks for all of your help and time.


Edited by Bluegrassdude, 13 August 2014 - 12:36 PM.


#13 zingo156

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 12:52 PM

All of those parts would work fine. I actually have had decent luck with ASrock boards lately. I have had a few DOA in the past but they have a decent RMA process.

 

I forgot about this being windows 8! The windows 8 key is stamped in the bios so replacing the motherboard with a generic board you may need to buy a new copy if you need to reload windows, unless your computer came with a genuine windows 8 install disc with the key. With all windows machines in the past (prior to windows 8) there was a sticker on the case somewhere on pre-built machines, if your board failed, you could replace the board and reload and use the key on the sticker. Unfortunately Windows has moved away from that and now the key is held in the bios.

 

I would try to swap the board and see if it boots. If it does not, call HP and see if they can provide the key and possibly restore discs. You could also call Microsoft and explain to them the situation. Legally you are allowed to replace the motherboard in the event of a failure. Just don't tell them you are adding many new parts or they might consider it a "new" pc. Just tell them you are replacing a dead board.


Edited by zingo156, 13 August 2014 - 12:52 PM.

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#14 Bluegrassdude

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 03:12 PM

Hey everyone,

Thanks for all of your help. My son and I completed our build. When we booted up, windows 8.1 was active. Looks like I have to reactivate Windows Office but otherwise everything seems good. All data and programs seem present and functional. Some things seem slow though compared to prior setup, especially startup and windows explorer. Any ideas? I bought Windows 7 Home premium thinking 8 wouldn't boot up and activate. Should I hold on to it for a bit or RMA it? Its not open and I got it from Newegg.



#15 zingo156

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 07:20 AM

You could send it back and always order again. For slow issues, double check all of your drivers in device manager. The new hardware should come with discs, the motherboard drivers will be important. Create a restore point before you install any drivers as I would expect some confilct since your current version of windows was loaded on other hardware. Most likely you'll be ok but a restore point takes a few minutes and can save hours later.


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